Marners start..

[Sniper99]

It's because he has to score 40 goals to justify his horrible contract. He knows it, his dad knows it, his agent knows it, and us fans know it. It's too bad he spent the entire summer on the lake instead of practicing his shot.

He doesnt HAVE to score 40, Hell he only put up what? 26 goals last year. Maybe 30+ goals would be nice along with 70+ assists would be nice. But I dont think it would be a big let down if he doesnt get to 40 goals

 

[Stephen]

Nice but I am more interested in how he plays in the next two vs Wash and Bos.

I think the bar is high enough for the Leafs at this point that you want to see them play and win complete games against those kind of balanced contenders.

 

[Superstar]

He doesnt HAVE to score 40, Hell he only put up what? 26 goals last year. Maybe 30+ goals would be nice along with 70+ assists would be nice. But I dont think it would be a big let down if he doesnt get to 40 goals

Marner doesn't have the shot to score 40 goals...he'll be lucky to even score 30...if he tries to score 40 goals, it means he's shooting the puck too much and all his other stats like his assists will suffer and the team will suffer too...his strength is his play making and passing...he should be selective with his shots and not force them, because if he shoots, it means someone else is not shooting. It's great he scored on the PP tonight, but would you want him to be the primary shooter on the PP with Matthews and Tavares there too? He's no Stamkos.

 

[Lightsol]

Rantanen, Point and Aho have all eclipsed Eichel, yet they didn't bring the absolute hammer down on their teams...

Aho took the first offer thrown at him, which quite frankly is a massive underpayment, and Point took less for the same reason everyone in Tampa takes less, and we all know it. I'm not even going to comment on Rantanen, because I have no idea what his agent was doing in that situation...

 

[Leaf4Life79]

Keep Moore on the JT,Marner line, he was instant fire to both of them, I like this and hope it sticks!

 

[sparxx87]

Was hoping they’d trade him to Minnesota before the game. Sigh.

To Washington, for Tom Wilson and Radko Gudas?

If I do this for all 82, it’ll eventually work. I hope.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

This is why you don't crap on a guy after 6 games.
It's called sample size. Just took 1 game and back to team leader, and 105pt pace.
In the next 3 games, he could tear it up and be at 120pt pace, or slump again and be back at ppg or even sub that. It's all very normal in the course of 80+ games.

Nylander doesn't have a point in the last 2 games..... fire up the hate threads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
People just never learn.....

 

[Stephen]

This is why you don't crap on a guy after 6 games.
It's called sample size. Just took 1 game and back to team leader, and 105pt pace.
In the next 3 games, he could tear it up and be at 120pt pace, or slump again and be back at ppg or even sub that. It's all very normal in the course of 80+ games.

Nylander doesn't have a point in the last 2 games..... fire up the hate threads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
People just never learn.....

Marner was productive in Game 2 vs Columbus too, it doesn't really change the fact that he has to be an $11 million player consistently more nights than not from this point onwards.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Marner was productive in Game 2 vs Columbus too, it doesn't really change the fact that he has to be an $11 million player consistently more nights than not from this point onwards.

He's at a 35g and 105pt pace..... Pace wise, that will not get much better, that's for sure.

Once again, leading the team in points, yet playing the worst.... interesting. He must truly be elite if he can play like dog crap and out produce Matthews and JT...... nearly doubling Willy.....

Willy could have 2 good games and basically be PPG, or 2 not so good, and be pacing 40 points....... It's almost like there is over 90% of the season left.

Not you necessarily, but some people should wait a bit before calling for someones head on a spike. Just makes you look silly, especially when Marner has already shown what he can do, it's not like some surprise.

 

[Mugzy97]

Marner is the much more talented player, but sometimes playing patience, simple hockey wins. He needs to learn how to win without scoring.

His team wins a lot

 

[MapleLeafs77]

He's at a 35g and 105pt pace..... Pace wise, that will not get much better, that's for sure.

Once again, leading the team in points, yet playing the worst.... interesting. He must truly be elite if he can play like dog crap and out produce Matthews and JT...... nearly doubling Willy.....

Willy could have 2 good games and basically be PPG, or 2 not so good, and be pacing 40 points....... It's almost like there is over 90% of the season left.

Not you necessarily, but some people should wait a bit before calling for someones head on a spike. Just makes you look silly, especially when Marner has already shown what he can do, it's not like some surprise.

He is getting secondary assists on matthews ppg. I think he has created probably like two goals that I can think of. The pass on mattys goal against ott and yesterdays goal for matty as well.

He is playing like dog shit. Rielly has been playing like shit too. Just because they got gimme points doesnt mean anything to me. Secondary assists shouldnt count the same as primary or scoring the actual goal.

Its clear to me that goals should be 2 points, primary assists as 1 point. Secondary assists are nothing.

 

[Beyonder91]

Can he improve? No question! Still leading team in points despite a slow start by the eye test.
But anyone saying Marner is playing like "dog shit" can't be taken seriously.
Going to be fun to come back to this thread at the end of the year.

 

[ACC1224]

He is getting secondary assists on matthews ppg. I think he has created probably like two goals that I can think of. The pass on mattys goal against ott and yesterdays goal for matty as well.

He is playing like dog ****. Rielly has been playing like **** too. Just because they got gimme points doesnt mean anything to me. Secondary assists shouldnt count the same as primary or scoring the actual goal.

Its clear to me that goals should be 2 points, primary assists as 1 point. Secondary assists are nothing.

@Diamond Joe Quimby - wrong thread but right on cue

 

[Nithoniniel]

Its clear to me that goals should be 2 points, primary assists as 1 point. Secondary assists are nothing.

I think people just need to learn to look beyond points.

At some point in the future, it'll be commonplace to look at stats that more effectively isolates someone's playmaking. Assists is a nice end product, but it also includes shooter ability and goaltending performance. Those are some pretty huge factors that says nothing about the playmaker. There's a reason why McDavid's numbers without one of RNH or Draisaitl are terrible, and the issue isn't that is playmaking suddenly went bad.

I'm pretty sure that such numbers would paint a great picture of Marner over his career, he's normally an elite playmaker who gets used accordingly. I doubt they'd look very good so far this season.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Can he improve? No question! Still leading team in points despite a slow start by the eye test.
But anyone saying Marner is playing like "dog ****" can't be taken seriously.
Going to be fun to come back to this thread at the end of the year.

Why? Let's say he's absolutely brilliant the rest of the season, which wouldn't surprise anyone. Does that mean he didn't play like crap to start the season?

And of course people are judging him relative to expectations.

 

[Beyonder91]

Why? Let's say he's absolutely brilliant the rest of the season, which wouldn't surprise anyone. Does that mean he didn't play like crap to start the season?

And of course people are judging him relative to expectations.

Do I really need to go through and quote many of the posts in the thread?

 

[Srsly]

He is getting secondary assists on matthews ppg. I think he has created probably like two goals that I can think of. The pass on mattys goal against ott and yesterdays goal for matty as well.

He is playing like dog ****. Rielly has been playing like **** too. Just because they got gimme points doesnt mean anything to me. Secondary assists shouldnt count the same as primary or scoring the actual goal.

Its clear to me that goals should be 2 points, primary assists as 1 point. Secondary assists are nothing.

He has three goals and three primary assists. That’s still 6pts in 7 games during a slow start. And that’s humoring the notion that “secondary assists are nothing” which isn’t as clean cut as you seem to believe.

Some secondary assists are the driver of the play. They could be a won puck battle, a clean stretch pass, or any number of creative plays. Of course not all of them are but that’s just how this works. We could use the same logic as you’re posting to say easy tap-ins shouldn’t count for a players goal total. Marner gifted a number of near empty netters to Tavares last season and no one argues that he deserves all the credit for those goals.

Yes Marner got off to a rocky start, but he’s just a kid and I find it shocking how many people seem to want him to fail based upon the media’s perception of him being a “greedy little punk” or whatever narrative they’ve been pushing. It’s in our best interest for him to succeed so perhaps we need to start enjoying the positives and not focusing on a small sample size of games that aren’t really an indication of anything.

 

[MapleLeafs77]

He has three goals and three primary assists. That’s still 6pts in 7 games during a slow start. And that’s humoring the notion that “secondary assists are nothing” which isn’t as clean cut as you seem to believe.

Some secondary assists are the driver of the play. They could be a won puck battle, a clean stretch pass, or any number of creative plays. Of course not all of them are but that’s just how this works. We could use the same logic as you’re posting to say easy tap-ins shouldn’t count for a players goal total. Marner gifted a number of near empty netters to Tavares last season and no one argues that he deserves all the credit for those goals.

Yes Marner got off to a rocky start, but he’s just a kid and I find it shocking how many people seem to want him to fail based upon the media’s perception of him being a “greedy little punk” or whatever narrative they’ve been pushing. It’s in our best interest for him to succeed so perhaps we need to start enjoying the positives and not focusing on a small sample size of games that aren’t really an indication of anything.

I believe he got all 6 points in two games. Last night and columbus. I could be wrong though.

I think people just know that he has not played well at all. His point totals dont reflect that at all.

He can be much better. He needs to be much better. And im sorry but his contract also makes it that he should be much better.

 

[Menzinger]

I think people just need to learn to look beyond points.

At some point in the future, it'll be commonplace to look at stats that more effectively isolates someone's playmaking. Assists is a nice end product, but it also includes shooter ability and goaltending performance. Those are some pretty huge factors that says nothing about the playmaker. There's a reason why McDavid's numbers without one of RNH or Draisaitl are terrible, and the issue isn't that is playmaking suddenly went bad.

I'm pretty sure that such numbers would paint a great picture of Marner over his career, he's normally an elite playmaker who gets used accordingly. I doubt they'd look very good so far this season.

The biggest divide in sports right now (or hockey I should say) are those who look at point totals vs those who co contextualize them.

 

[moon111]

He is getting secondary assists on matthews ppg. I think he has created probably like two goals that I can think of. The pass on mattys goal against ott and yesterdays goal for matty as well.

He is playing like dog ****. Rielly has been playing like **** too. Just because they got gimme points doesnt mean anything to me. Secondary assists shouldnt count the same as primary or scoring the actual goal.

Its clear to me that goals should be 2 points, primary assists as 1 point. Secondary assists are nothing.

I'm not worried about their point production, it's their defense. Think Marner makes the offense so exciting that certain players just feed on it. Rielly becomes a shark smelling blood. What the top lines need to worry about is playing against their opponent, not just with the puck. Rielly constantly looses all focus on defense when he sees the puck. Gives up the player he should be covering. Last
night he gave up his man to attack a puck he wouldn't have a chance on. The top two lines are smashing weaker opponents with their offense and looking like fools against serious opposition. Some say 'plus/minus' is a flawed stat. But if you work hard, do your job in your own defensive end while everyone else does theirs, you too can be a +18 like Komarov without scoring much. If you have the offense of some of these $10 million dollar men... fill the Stanley Cup with champagne and plan the parade.

 

[NoName]

Doing fine so far. Slightly worried that most of his out-put has been on the powerplay so far rather than 5-on-5, but honestly it is hard to-nit-pick with his start.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

It's because he has to score 40 goals to justify his horrible contract. He knows it, his dad knows it, his agent knows it, and us fans know it. It's too bad he spent the entire summer on the lake instead of practicing his shot.

So you are one of them that drags his parent in to this eh. Not cool, just sayyyyin

 

[Wafflewhipper]

That's very generous. His 6 points before this:

1: That beautiful spin and pass to Matthews. Full credit.
2: Goal on a give-and go that he puts into a net that Korpisalo practically vacated. Can't argue with a goal that far out though.
3: Goal where he spins off the defender and attacks the net. Full credit.
4: Secondary assist after a routine pass to the point.
5: Secondary assist after dropping the puck back to the point.
6: Secondary assist after a zone entry and handing it off to Matthews.

Might misremember one of them but I don't think so.

If this is the type of BS we have to read for every point you have fun with that on every other players points to ok. Unreal

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I'm way more angry at Jack Eichel and the Buffalo Sabres. Considering Marner's outscored Eichel every year they've both been in the league, the second Buffalo handed Eichel $10 million, you knew Marner wasn't coming in under that, position be damned.

Ah ha and there it is! Very true too.

 

[Big Cactus]

The biggest divide in sports right now (or hockey I should say) are those who look at point totals vs those who co contextualize them.

Facts. Any player can go on a heater via OISH or personal shooting percentage. Some players get blessed with linemates that inflate their stats (Connor Brown). Some guys have a sustained run of good fortune (Elias Pettersson last season). It was unsurprising to a lot of people that he couldn’t score an even strength goal for 30 games. Eventually the numbers will even out. You have to look deeper than just the raw numbers so you can properly evaluate a player. That’s how you avoid signing a David Clarkson off a 30 goal year.

What I look for is players that consistently produce offence in more ways that just points. Zone entries (William Nylander) high danger chances (John Tavares) zone exits/denials (Travis Dermott) Primary passes to the slot (Mitch Marner). That gives you a bigger overlook on what’s behind or not behind the numbers.

I have no idea why people ignore analytics. Maybe because they don’t understand them? Regardless it gives you a level head when a player goes through a slump. As long as they’re doing the right thing the numbers will eventually follow.