Marners start..

[Stephen]

Hard to be to hard on Marner.

Tavares has been bad. I see this guy flopping down on the ice at least once a game. I'm like "why is AJ on with Marner" then I realize that's Tavares falling down randomly. This guy flopped to the ice almost zero times last season.

Kapanen has absolutely no hockey IQ to go with those hands and legs. He needs more development time in the bottom 6 until he's ready to be in the top 6 of a cup contending team.


If we're being logical...Tavares needs to just catch up on some sleep. Just had a kid.

Kapanen needs to move to the third line where he'll have more success and go back to being a fan favourite.

Then Marner will go back to putting up his usual 5 points a game.

Funny how Matthews turned Kapanen into a 20 goal scorer and now that he’s playing with our elite playmaker Kapanen is being blamed for dragging down Marner.

If Marner deserves credit for Tavares having a career year and being an $11 million player as we were led to believe in the contract negotiations he deserves the blame for failing to get that line going.

You want all the credit, that also means you get the responsibility.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Last year the Tavares/Marner line rode high percentages, this year they'll likely be lower, it happens. I hope y'all aren't expecting 94 points on the regular, because it was likely a top-5 season for both Tavares & Marner.

Active players who've scored 94+ multiple times

• Crosby (6)
• Ovechkin (4)
• Malkin (4)
• Thornton (4)
• McDavid (3)
• Stamkos (3)
• Kane (2)
• Kucherov (2)
• MacKinnon (2)

That's all of them. Marner is one of only 21 active players to ever hit 94 points.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Last year the Tavares/Marner line rode high percentages, this year they'll likely be lower, it happens. I hope y'all aren't expecting 94 points on the regular, because it was likely a top-5 season for both Tavares & Marner.

Active players who've scored 94+ multiple times

• Crosby (6)
• Ovechkin (4)
• Malkin (4)
• Thornton (4)
• McDavid (3)
• Stamkos (3)
• Kane (2)
• Kucherov (2)
• MacKinnon (2)

That's all of them. Marner is one of only 21 active players to ever hit 94 points.

He is being paid like a guy who is expected to hit 90+ points regularly. That's why his contract was a huge over payment. He deserves to be criticized if he doesn't live up to it, the same way management gets criticized for giving it to him.

 

[Havoc]

Funny how Matthews turned Kapanen into a 20 goal scorer and now that he’s playing with our elite playmaker Kapanen is being blamed for dragging down Marner.

If Marner deserves credit for Tavares having a career year and being an $11 million player as we were led to believe in the contract negotiations he deserves the blame for failing to get that line going.

You want all the credit, that also means you get the responsibility.

Kapanen had 6 goals in the final 41 games of the season.

Looks to be that same player to begin the year.

I don't see how you can rule out Kapanen. That's 6 goals over his last 47 regular season games. He's been off for a while.

That's 10 goals over a full season.......

He's not ready for that line yet. Mik / Moore look more deserving right now. Kapanen can always win the spot back.

If you can explain why he's free of blame with his 6 goals in 47 games then go ahead.

 

[BigBlu]

Trade Kappy for cap space to re-sign Mik.

Marner is an 8 Mil player. Not 11.

 

[hockeywiz542]

NHL insider Anthony Stewart joins Lead Off to discuss Mitch Marner's slow start to this season, wondering if he's feeling any pressure after signing his near $11 million contract, or maybe it's just a slump?

 

[Myopic]

I'm sure Marner will bounce back. He had a stretch of about 20 games earlier in his career when he played like dog sh** too. Then he went on an epic run.

 

[Stephen]

Kapanen had 6 goals in the final 41 games of the season.

Looks to be that same player to begin the year.

I don't see how you can rule out Kapanen. That's 6 goals over his last 47 regular season games. He's been off for a while.

That's 10 goals over a full season.......

He's not ready for that line yet. Mik / Moore look more deserving right now. Kapanen can always win the spot back.

If you can explain why he's free of blame with his 6 goals in 47 games then go ahead.

I don’t think Kapanen’s free of blame at all, but at the end of the day if Marner can’t make it work with a scrub player why are we paying him like he’s a franchise player?

This kid came into the NHL on the Bozak JVR line. Then gets upgraded to an $11 million center and the first sign he has to carry someone weaker offensively we’re going to blame the guy who makes 3x less money?

Marner’s changed the conversation for himself in this city. From now on money is always going to be front and centre.

 

[Myopic]

I don’t think Kapanen’s free of blame at all, but at the end of the day if Marner can’t make it work with a scrub player why are we paying him like he’s a franchise player?

This kid came into the NHL on the Bozak JVR line. Then gets upgraded to an $11 million center and the first sign he has to carry someone weaker offensively we’re going to blame the guy who makes 3x less money?

Marner’s changed the conversation for himself in this city. From now on money is always going to be front and centre.

Marner is no longer the likable Toronto born kid who exuded love of the game.

He made a business decision to stick it to his hometown team and make as much money as he can despite a hindrance to the cap, and the team's ability to sign other players. I personally can't stand to look at him, but that's just me.

 

[Mickey Marner]

He is being paid like a guy who is expected to hit 90+ points regularly. That's why his contract was a huge over payment. He deserves to be criticized if he doesn't live up to it, the same way management gets criticized for giving it to him.

Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Marner will never be worth his contract relative to his comparables. Putting 10.89 towards a positive impact player is however a decent investment. It's the poor investments (Zaitsev, Marleau) that hamstring a teams ability to compete.

 

[Beyonder91]

I'm discounting PP points because Matthews, Johnsson and Nylander have scored 4 of their 5 PP goals. marner has 1 PP/G along with his 1 ES/G.

Oh, and Barzal has 4 ES/P in 6 games.

I love how we only care about even strength points now! Stop cherry picking stats. The point was neither of the 3 was off to a good start at the time of my post and that it was too early to be concerned.

Oh, and Barzal had a clutch game late today. Once again like I said... It was too early to be concerned.

 

[Lightsol]

Funny how Matthews turned Kapanen into a 20 goal scorer and now that he’s playing with our elite playmaker Kapanen is being blamed for dragging down Marner.

If Marner deserves credit for Tavares having a career year and being an $11 million player as we were led to believe in the contract negotiations he deserves the blame for failing to get that line going.

You want all the credit, that also means you get the responsibility.

Even with what the other guys said here, there's also Kapanen playing on his off-wing whereas he was playing on his proper wing with Matthews...

 

[ULF_55]

I love how we only care about even strength points now! Stop cherry picking stats. The point was neither of the 3 was off to a good start at the time of my post and that it was too early to be concerned.

Oh, and Barzal had a clutch game late today. Once again like I said... It was too early to be concerned.

ES/P are reflective of your line's play against Even strength opponents.

 

[Beyonder91]

ES/P are reflective of your line's play against Even strength opponents.

No...
What do 2 even strength points matter if you've give up 10 even strength points against? Or if you've spent 65% of the time playing in your own zone?
Even strength points as a stand alone stat show absolutely nothing about how your line has played against opponents.
Even the much hated +/- is a more useful stat to show this.

 

[Trapper]

Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Marner will never be worth his contract relative to his comparables. Putting 10.89 towards a positive impact player is however a decent investment. It's the poor investments (Zaitsev, Marleau) that hamstring a teams ability to compete.

It depends what kind of support you put around.
It’s not basketball where you can pay 3 guys all the money.
You need money for key positions: center, D, goal and then down the wings/support.

you can’t blame Hyman/Kapanen/etc if we go out in the first round and the 4 guys weren’t good enough.

 

[hockeyes]

Even if Marner plays to his peak potential, he's still overpaid. That's how terrible his contract is, he needs to put up 120 points to even come close to being worth what he was paid for how little he brings outside of production.

 

[Beyonder91]

Even if Marner plays to his peak potential, he's still overpaid. That's how terrible his contract is, he needs to put up 120 points to even come close to being worth what he was paid for how little he brings outside of production.

What does Matthews need to produce to earn his contract?

 

[hockeyes]

What does Matthews need to produce to earn his contract?

45-50 goals without missing significant time

 

[Superstar]

Mikko Rantanen: 5 games, 4 goals, 11 pts...6'4", 215 lbs...and about $1.7 million cheaper...but Marner is so awesome because of his primary assists, am I right?

 

[Gabriel426]

Last year the Tavares/Marner line rode high percentages, this year they'll likely be lower, it happens. I hope y'all aren't expecting 94 points on the regular, because it was likely a top-5 season for both Tavares & Marner.

Active players who've scored 94+ multiple times

• Crosby (6)
• Ovechkin (4)
• Malkin (4)
• Thornton (4)
• McDavid (3)
• Stamkos (3)
• Kane (2)
• Kucherov (2)
• MacKinnon (2)

That's all of them. Marner is one of only 21 active players to ever hit 94 points.

If that's the case, he really should not sign for just under 11mil and have his dad reminded us how he is as good if not better than anyone else on the team and how he is always being disrespected for not being 6'2, 210pounds, scoring goals and playing C.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Mikko Rantanen: 5 games, 4 goals, 11 pts...6'4", 215 lbs...and about $1.7 million cheaper...but Marner is so awesome because of his primary assists, am I right?

Its early...

 

[Gabriel426]

Kapanen had 6 goals in the final 41 games of the season.

Looks to be that same player to begin the year.

I don't see how you can rule out Kapanen. That's 6 goals over his last 47 regular season games. He's been off for a while.

That's 10 goals over a full season.......

He's not ready for that line yet. Mik / Moore look more deserving right now. Kapanen can always win the spot back.

If you can explain why he's free of blame with his 6 goals in 47 games then go ahead.

But he also had a concussion toward the end of the year.
Having said that, I just don't think it is a good mix between Kap/JT/Marner

 

[Superstar]

Its early...

For Hyman to return to save the day?

 

[Stephen]

Mikko Rantanen: 5 games, 4 goals, 11 pts...6'4", 215 lbs...and about $1.7 million cheaper...but Marner is so awesome because of his primary assists, am I right?

No, he's special cause he grew up dreaming of playing for the organization and is a Fun Loving Kid™.

 

[Superstar]

No, he's special cause he grew up dreaming of playing for the organization and is a Money Loving Kid™.

Fixed it for ya.