Marners start..

[Ifittex il Verita]

The sooner they get rid of him the better.

Hard to win with selfish players and he’ll never provide good value-per-dollar in a cap world. The team is far more unlikable with him on it and would be better served trading him for players that actually affect winning in more than just the assist column.

David Savard
Josh Anderson
Boone Jenner

for

Mitchell Marner
___________ ?

I guess this is where be thankful we don't have foolish fans like you running the team

 

[Mess]

True.

But it also shows that the coach is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I don't see why Kapanen has to play on that line to begin with....

In addition, Kapanen usually switches to RW on that line leaving Marner to play on the LW trying to make plays on his backhand; it kills that line IMO

They could easily have one of Moore or Mikheyev on that line until Hyman is back and drop Kapanen on the third line

Mikheyev-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Moore-Kerfoot-Kapanen
Timashov-Goat-Shore/Spezza

Once Hyman is back Leafs have two options:

1. Move Moore to the 4th line, Mikheyev to the third line
OR
2. Trade Kapanen for futures, cap flexibility or D-man

Hyman is good eh??

 

[PromisedLand]

Hyman is good eh??

umm... i wasn't arguing that hyman isn't good; i was saying that kapanen on that line ain't working. come on mess how much of that turkey did you have

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

How bad are things that we need Zach Hyman to make sure 91 and 93 can actually do something at even strength?
Hyman's great but this story sounds like more of a testament to how bad 91 and 93 are then how good hyman is.

 

[CelticDruid]

Marner just needs to hang onto the puck a little longer, I feel that he is rushing his plays way too much.

I still believe that he will get it going just needs a multiple point game run.

Marner has a very subdued celebration when his teammates score- could it be stress because he was not the one to produce that point?

In the long run I don't think that Marner and Matthews will be able to co-exist, too much ego in the way and I'm not talking about Matthews.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

How bad are things that we need Zach Hyman to make sure 91 and 93 can actually do something at even strength?
Hyman's great but this story sounds like more of a testament to how bad 91 and 93 are then how good hyman is.

I personally think it's more just a slump than it is about Hyman. Kapanen not clicking with them isn't helping either.

I think both of these players will come back down to earth this year. Tavares will revert back to his 35 goal average, which will likely drop Marner to a 20 goal ppg winger.

That's what these players likely are.

All summer I heard people saying things like "Marner scores 93 pionts as a 21 year old... imagine how many points he'll be getting by 25?"

I kept thinking Marner has always looked like a ppg player to me. Nothing more.

 

[Stephen]

I was honestly shocked looking at his advanced stats. Besides the 5v5 stuff, it's actually in line with previous years. It doesn't help when your goalie has a .850 save % when you are on the ice.

Overall though, you're right, there is something wrong. Mitch has suffered confidence issues his whole career. He might be going through it again after the contract blow back. He took a big hit to his ego.
I'm sure he will bounce back, but he is feeling the pressure, big time.

Marner deserves to feel the pressure. He made a big power play about where he ranks in the team hierarchy in contract negotiations and came to camp unprepared to justify his claims. Why is this guy even coming into his fourth NHL season looking like he hasn't worked out a day since his rookie year? Might help not getting thrown around all over the ice. Also doesn't help that his on ice effectiveness has taken a nosedive as John Tavares has slumped coming out of the gate.

I'm actually curious to see what the consensus acceptable level of play will be for him from the perspective of Leafs Nation. He fit the role of the prodigy well on his ELC, but at nearly $11 million, it's not going to be easy for him to live up this ridiculous contract.

 

[Superstar]

I personally think it's more just a slump than it is about Hyman. Kapanen not clicking with them isn't helping either.

I think both of these players will come back down to earth this year. Tavares will revert back to his 35 goal average, which will likely drop Marner to a 20 goal ppg winger.

That's what these players likely are.

All summer I heard people saying things like "Marner scores 93 pionts as a 21 year old... imagine how many points he'll be getting by 25?"

I kept thinking Marner has always looked like a ppg player to me. Nothing more.

Until Marner could shoot the puck like Patrick Kane or Nikita Kucherov and become a goal scoring threat, he won't dominate the game like some people like to think...folks sometimes forget that Gretzky scored 894 goals in his career to go along with his 1963 assists during the regular season! 894 freakin' goals!

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

I personally think it's more just a slump than it is about Hyman. Kapanen not clicking with them isn't helping either.

I think both of these players will come back down to earth this year. Tavares will revert back to his 35 goal average, which will likely drop Marner to a 20 goal ppg winger.

That's what these players likely are.

All summer I heard people saying things like "Marner scores 93 pionts as a 21 year old... imagine how many points he'll be getting by 25?"

I kept thinking Marner has always looked like a ppg player to me. Nothing more.

So we're paying a ppg winger like he's a top 5 center in the game because from what i've seen, it's only the elite of the elite who are usually C's that are making that kind of money
I think the real issue is just how bad did Dubas f*** that contract up?

 

[Stephen]

I personally think it's more just a slump than it is about Hyman. Kapanen not clicking with them isn't helping either.

I think both of these players will come back down to earth this year. Tavares will revert back to his 35 goal average, which will likely drop Marner to a 20 goal ppg winger.

That's what these players likely are.

All summer I heard people saying things like "Marner scores 93 pionts as a 21 year old... imagine how many points he'll be getting by 25?"

I kept thinking Marner has always looked like a ppg player to me. Nothing more.

Those points predictions might be a little optimistic, but one thing that would help would be if Marner developed his frame. Don't know how he still looks like his rookie self three years later.

 

[Stephen]

Until Marner could shoot the puck like Patrick Kane or Nikita Kucherov and become a goal scoring threat, he won't dominate the game like some people like to think...folks sometimes forget that Gretzky scored 894 goals in his career to go along with his 1963 assists during the regular season! 894 freakin' goals!

Marner has also not developed the explosiveness Kane and Kucherov have. He's shifty but it looks like teams can close in on him without getting burned too much.

 

[sparxx87]

I guess this is where be thankful we don't have foolish fans like you running the team

It’s not about being a fan, it’s about removing emotion and looking at the business. 11m might be better allocated addressing other needs when you’ve got two number 1C’s already making 11m+.

No fandom, no emotion. All business... Ironically enough, the same stance the Marner camp took in contract negotiations.

 

[Stephen]

It’s not about being a fan, it’s about removing emotion and looking at the business. 11m might be better allocated addressing other needs when you’ve got two number 1C’s already making 11m+.

No fandom, no emotion. All business... Ironically enough, the same stance the Marner camp took in contract negotiations.

It's funny how Marner seems to want it both ways. His party drove the most aggressive negotiations against the Toronto Maple Leafs, and yet he wants to be considered that hometown boy favourite. If you cancel out all that hometown hero nonsense, you can evaluate him as a $11 million player. Does he get a lot of points? Yeah. But he's also pretty weak in many other aspects of the game.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

It's funny how Marner seems to want it both ways. His party drove the most aggressive negotiations against the Toronto Maple Leafs, and yet he wants to be considered that hometown boy favourite. If you cancel out all that hometown hero nonsense, you can evaluate him as a $11 million player. Does he get a lot of points? Yeah. But he's also pretty weak in many other aspects of the game.

Yep.

Marners camp thought they could strong arm a weakling rookie gm into a massive overpayment, while still maintaining the carefree homeboy hero image.

They were wrong.

They probably thought it would piss off a tiny minority of fans on the Internet, but otherwise nobody else would care. Again, they were wrong. The Toronto sports shows/newspapers/podcasts talk endlessly of these contracts. The casual fans know everything about them. They know the unprecedented dramatic overpayments greatly hurt the team depth going forward. And they’re going to be furious at anything less than perfection.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Marner scored 26 goals last year so we know he can put the puck in the net. His shot looks so weak though. Marner and Nylander need to share some of each other's strengths. Marner can teach Nylander how to hit the net and Nylander can teach Marner how to put a bit of zip on the puck.

So far his line just hasn't looked dominant 5v5. Mitch has been notorious for slow starts so hopefully he gets his groove back eventually. While I think Mitch is quite overpaid, no point on harping on it now. Let's just hope we get 90 point Mitch (along with 40+ goals JT) back soon.

 

[Stephen]

Yep.

Marners camp thought they could strong arm a weakling rookie gm into a massive overpayment, while still maintaining the carefree homeboy hero image.

They were wrong.

They probably thought it would piss off a tiny minority of fans on the Internet, but otherwise nobody else would care. Again, they were wrong. The Toronto sports shows/newspapers/podcasts talk endlessly of these contracts. The casual fans know everything about them. They know the unprecedented dramatic overpayments greatly hurt the team depth going forward. And they’re going to be furious at anything less than perfection.

He's essentially put a target on his own back because you're expecting a player who can win a scoring title like Kucherov, win Stanley Cups like Kane and electrify the home arena like Auston Matthews on a nightly basis.

 

[sparxx87]

It's funny how Marner seems to want it both ways. His party drove the most aggressive negotiations against the Toronto Maple Leafs, and yet he wants to be considered that hometown boy favourite. If you cancel out all that hometown hero nonsense, you can evaluate him as a $11 million player. Does he get a lot of points? Yeah. But he's also pretty weak in many other aspects of the game.

Yeah, it’s kind of silly. His letter to the fans failed to mention that all this was only possible provided he was paid as a top 10 player.

That part kind of changes things.

 

[Stephen]

Yeah, it’s kind of silly. His letter to the fans failed to mention that all this was only possible provided he was paid as a top 10 player.

That part kind of changes things.

So cringeworthy the way he referenced Toronto greats by name. What about them, Mitch?

 

[Ratboy]

I think the contract is weighing on him and he's trying too hard. He's gotta deal with this mentally. Just my opinion.

Plus his line is different. It's not working and that's not just on him.

 

[ITM]

Simply put, Marner burned a lot of good will and patience this offseason.

Mitch may be a point-per-game, but his points play out as:

5v4 - 4 pts
6v5 - 1 pt
4v4 - 1 pt
5v5 - 0 pts

He's been a total passenger at even strength, his line (the one he supposedly drives) has been arguably our most underwhelming one and his general decision-making has been poor.

Absolutely. And that good faith may never return.

But it simply never does our fanbase any good to isolate our players worth up or down apart from readily available comparables to conclude rightly where ire should be directed.

Marner could be at a 2ppg pace and I’d still look at his negotiations and subsequent production through a slight sneer. It doesn’t take away from the unnecessary damage we inflict on our fanbase when we deform our club’s value.

Lord knows we get enough of that from the media and other fanbase and at times - seemingly - from the league itself. We don’t need to create bigger hills than the ones we’ve got squarely in front of us.

 

[Beyonder91]

Barzal 2 even strength points.
Marnr 2 even strength points.

Islander 12 goals
Leafs 24 goals

Aho huge OUCH, 1 goal 'Cane 24 goals.

They'll both come back, but I haven't watched the 'Canes so I don't know if he looks bad or just having bad luck.

I've watched Isles games and Barzal has looked bad. Also, just discounting PP points is silly.
All 3 are good players who will turn things around. Just pointing out people are overreacting way too soon...

 

[Havoc]

Hard to be to hard on Marner.

Tavares has been bad. I see this guy flopping down on the ice at least once a game. I'm like "why is AJ on with Marner" then I realize that's Tavares falling down randomly. This guy flopped to the ice almost zero times last season.

Kapanen has absolutely no hockey IQ to go with those hands and legs. He needs more development time in the bottom 6 until he's ready to be in the top 6 of a cup contending team.


If we're being logical...Tavares needs to just catch up on some sleep. Just had a kid.

Kapanen needs to move to the third line where he'll have more success and go back to being a fan favourite.

Then Marner will go back to putting up his usual 5 points a game.

 

[paulhiggins]

At the beginning of the last two seasons, I told my wife how exciting this Leaf team is. Even she would watch. They were fun, freewheeling and high scoring. They were driven by their young stars. Now, their grinders have been doing a great job, but the game itself is pretty boring. Even with a win against Detroit, the game itself was not fun. The kids look like they aren't enjoying themselves anymore. Something is definitely off with Marner, but Tavares and Reilly as well. Nylander is looking better but not worth his $$$$. Mathews is the only one playing like he has something to prove and he does. He's gotta be pissed he's not captain, not even an'A'. He's showing them he can be just as exciting with his pants up as down. In the meantime, my wife says we're not staying home just to watch these "same ole boring Leafs".

a. the coach
b. players do not feel safe out there because the GM has filled the roster with softies

 

[hullsy47]

So we're paying a ppg winger like he's a top 5 center in the game because from what i've seen, it's only the elite of the elite who are usually C's that are making that kind of money
I think the real issue is just how bad did Dubas **** that contract up?

Well if anyone thinks dubas approved any of these contracts without consent of upper management is nuts
The leafs are making crazy money with these contracts might have hamstrung the team ,the leafs bottom line has never been better
Marner was only viewed to be worth the money he got by the leafs ,and him being a leaf gave him leverage
Every body knows if marner was in Winnipeg or Carolina had be at about 8.5 tops
It's an untradeable contract unless he stays between 75 -90 points
Other than that might be pretty stinky contract

 

[ULF_55]

I've watched Isles games and Barzal has looked bad. Also, just discounting PP points is silly.
All 3 are good players who will turn things around. Just pointing out people are overreacting way too soon...

I'm discounting PP points because Matthews, Johnsson and Nylander have scored 4 of their 5 PP goals. marner has 1 PP/G along with his 1 ES/G.

Oh, and Barzal has 4 ES/P in 6 games.