Marner or Draisaitl

[BlueBaron]

McDavid with Marner will be a dream for Canadians.

Who would their LW be?

They actually do too much of the same things. It probably would make more sense to put Marner on Crosby's line. Give McD a real sniper for a change.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

I remember when Oiler fans used to claim that Leon was better than Auston ahahahaha.

Mitch aniec.

Compare Leon to Nylander. More fair.

They also claimed Leon was better then Eichel.

Guy can’t even anchor a second line.

Keep in mind the best defenders and checkers will be covering mcdavid, and this guy can’t produce at a good amount long enough against weaker competition then Matthews mcdavid Eichel scheifele barkovs of the world who all face top competition.

Now hold it oilers fans don’t just quote me if you won’t read the rest of my post here.....

Draisaitl s production is excellent but lots of people’s production would be excellent playing with the best player in the world. Look at how Colby Armstrong produced with Crosby or basically anyone else....I’m not saying Armstrong >>> Draisaitl. I’m also not saying draisaitl is just a byproduct of mcdavid, He’s clearly a good player who can be great at times. 2017 playoffs im looking at you.

However...ideally the oilers want to spread their offense around and each time (this was when Todd was coach anyway) they tried giving draisaitl that spot it usually bombs or isn’t as effective as keeping him with Connor. That’s not what the oilers wanted when they payed him 8.5 million. He doesent need Connor but a lot of his production comes with Connor and any coach or team would spread their scoring out if they could, he’s had a great season I’m
Not trying to take that away, he’s also a good players away from the puck so he has game.

While marner has a lot of talents around him he still is the engine on that team.

So it’s pretty simple.

If drai can’t prodce consistently on his own line against weaker competition then the rest of the young star centres or wingers like Marner then he shouldnt be considered on their level let alone better.


And this isnt a myth or whatever from “someone who doesn’t watch the oilers” these are all
Facts.

The two guys should be good enough that they don’t need to play on the same line.

 

[WalkwithElias]

Drai and it ain’t close either

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Drai and it ain’t close either

Really?

Why is not close? Marner plays against the best competition and dominates, draisaitl was meant to anchor a second line and seeings how draisaitl couldn’t do that against weak competition as the hard matchups go against Connor, he had to be on the same line as the best player in the world.

With that he’s done well and he’s a good player, not just a byproduct of mcdavid or anything but it’s white easily the most enviable and lucrative spot a player could have. If you think marner gets points because of say Tavares or Reilly, and he’s just a product of his environment that’s not right either. See I’m filling in what you may think since you didn’t do it yourself and I’m just assuming because I can’t conorehend this opinion. Those leafs help but they’re not the reason marner plays the way he does. When you watch the leaf games (if you do) you see who is the engine and who is creating space and creating plays. These players like backstrom and giroux, and huberdeau, aho and yes Eichel, Panarin, Marchand, Wheeler and Rantanen are so valuable because they not only produce offensive chances, a lot of them can cycle well and carry the puck into the offensive zone and their team relies on all of them heavily. These guys don’t just set up they finish, and I don’t just mean goals when I say finish.

Draisaitl can do this too but he has the greatest benefit of all, and as I mentioned he couldn’t even hold his own when he had an easier assignment the the rest of the young guys. (Play against second best shutdown guys on a second line) I wonder what Mitchell Marner could do with a Connor McDavid....seeing as these two guys production is close as is, take Leon away from Connor and lets put Mitchell with him and does it change? And if it does obviously the production would go up for Mitchell, and down for Leon and if that’s the case how is the answer draisaitl? And on top of all that how is it not close?

I see people put “it’s not close” in so many cases that are close, but it’s always funnier seeing them put it to strengthen their argument or else why bother in a close case? All it does is say “not only am I wrong, I’m reallly dead wrong.” Assuming they are wrong of course.

 

[DanM]

They also claimed Leon was better then Eichel.

Guy can’t even anchor a second line.

Keep in mind the best defenders and checkers will be covering mcdavid, and this guy can’t produce at a good amount long enough against weaker competition then Matthews mcdavid Eichel scheifele barkovs of the world who all face top competition.

Now hold it oilers fans don’t just quote me if you won’t read the rest of my post here.....

Draisaitl s production is excellent but lots of people’s production would be excellent playing with the best player in the world. Look at how Colby Armstrong produced with Crosby or basically anyone else....I’m not saying Armstrong >>> Draisaitl. I’m also not saying draisaitl is just a byproduct of mcdavid, He’s clearly a good player who can be great at times. 2017 playoffs im looking at you.

However...ideally the oilers want to spread their offense around and each time (this was when Todd was coach anyway) they tried giving draisaitl that spot it usually bombs or isn’t as effective as keeping him with Connor. That’s not what the oilers wanted when they payed him 8.5 million. He doesent need Connor but a lot of his production comes with Connor and any coach or team would spread their scoring out if they could, he’s had a great season I’m
Not trying to take that away, he’s also a good players away from the puck so he has game.

While marner has a lot of talents around him he still is the engine on that team.

So it’s pretty simple.

If drai can’t prodce consistently on his own line against weaker competition then the rest of the young star centres or wingers like Marner then he shouldnt be considered on their level let alone better.


And this isnt a myth or whatever from “someone who doesn’t watch the oilers” these are all
Facts.

The two guys should be good enough that they don’t need to play on the same line.

Jack looks great this year!

Been a huge fan of his since he came into the league, good to see.

 

[firstemperor]

I hope Marner doesn't get paid too much this offseason for the sake of our cap, but I agreed with his dad on Leafs lunch the other day.

Marner is one of those rare breed of wingers that is all over the ice and plays like a center, absolute puck-hound and is probably one of the best pure line-drivers in the league right now. His creativity is something to marvel at. He's really hit another level (really, last year during the 2nd half) and hasn't slowed down. It's a everyday game thing for him now.

I agree with the C>W argument but Draisaitl is not a proven natural C, and I think there are exceptions to the rule. Particularly 200-foot wingers that are elite line drivers.....which I believe Marner to be. IMO, if you have a player like Marner driving a line, you could have a C like Kevin Hayes or Henrique (who by most accounts, is probably a below average #2/great #3 in the case, of Henrique more of a #3C on a good team, respectively) slot in seamlessly against the best lines in the league. That's the type of value I'd put on Marner, just my take on it.

We are still waiting for Nylander to hit that next level of consistency (though he has shown spurts of that, over very long stretches).

 

[Tage2Tuch]

A bit of wishful thinking but he is a hometown boy so we might get a slight discount. He wants to die a Leaf.

He'll get more than Dra but RFA's are now inflated due to Eichel and Dra's contracts. I think those contracts and the fall out are going to result in CBA chaos.

Yeah Eichel isn’t responsible for anyone getting more money then they deserve. It’s ironic you even suggest such a thing since only Tavares has signed for more per year then him by my count in the past year. Hes not the reason that the upcoming storm of RFAS will make a lot of money either, contrary to the popular belief from on-air ex nhl talents who are jealous of today’s money that’s available to today’s stars and have to scapegoat their anger on someone. The way guys will make money will be how it’s always been done and that’s according to the percentage of the cap a star player for each team earns, based on the market and what the cap is at. The base salary of a franchise player goes up with inflation and the aforementioned cap yearly and for Jack term is what was looked at most. Good thing, It’s a great deal no matter what “anyone” thought at the time. Kypreos was the only one I really noticed who kept mocking the deal and now what is he doing? He’s praising him on a nightly basis, how did that work out nick? By the time he’s halfway Into his deal he will actually be underpaid because guys like lafrenierre will be walking out of their elcs making 12-13 million because it’s just going to keep rising. Eichel then (four years in) will be what Crosby and stamkos are now (in the sense of better players making less then these new guys) so when it’s all said and done that’s four more years of Eichel in his prime and even better then he already is. And this is the first year of his deal and he’s on a 110 pt pace, leads the east in scoring among all centres (2nd in east among all players) and tied with kucherov in even strength scoring in the east at the Xmas break. Eichel Actually turned down a 8 x 11 deal to make more room under the cap for buffalo. McD isn’t the only one who turned down more money but he’s mcdavid and it’s canada so you likely didn’t hear about that. Ultimately what happened was Eichel decided to make 3.5 million less then mcdavid was offered at the time. Do you think that’s fair? Because of anything it makes eichels contract back then look even better. How on earth could anyone justify him taking less then the 3.5, connor was offered, because he’s not four million dollars worse then mcdavid is.

So not only is Eichel fairly payed, like I said in time he will be underpaid due to timely comparisons, prime entry and salary cap rising. People judge him on the money he makes today, I always felt that’s odd when a deal is max length but anyway I’d say he’s doing quite well in year one of eight, the deal is for another seven years and in the beginning year tied for sixth in the NHL in points at the Xmas break? I get it if you aren’t even saying Eichel is overpaid exactly but you act as if Eichel and draisaitl just changed the game and talents need more money, Eichel has proven he can anchor a team at over a point per game rate 168 pts in his last 164 games the last the seasons, while Draisaitl failed at trying to anchor a second line. He has impressive pt totals but he really hasn’t proven he can do it at a good rate away from mcdavid because that’s what the oilers were counting on when signing him. Anyway the point being players are being paid what they deserve like always, neither guy “changed the game”, it’s based off cap percentage and to a lesser extent the needs of teams, depending on their value and of course term. Players at the end of the day will still make around what they deserve, this narrative sounds a lot like “oh well so and so two players got payed this amount and now all these new guys will have to also” it’s uninformed, incorrect and ignorant. Whether you meant it that way? Only you know I’m just clearing this up for the readers.

 

[BlueBaron]

Yeah Eichel isn’t responsible for anyone getting more money then they deserve. It’s ironic you even suggest such a thing since only Tavares has signed for more per year then him by my count in the past year. Hes not the reason that the upcoming storm of RFAS will make a lot of money either, contrary to the popular belief from on-air ex nhl talents who are jealous of today’s money that’s available to today’s stars and have to scapegoat their anger on someone. The way guys will make money will be how it’s always been done and that’s according to the percentage of the cap a star player for each team earns, based on the market and what the cap is at. The base salary of a franchise player goes up with inflation and the aforementioned cap yearly and for Jack term is what was looked at most. Good thing, It’s a great deal no matter what “anyone” thought at the time. Kypreos was the only one I really noticed who kept mocking the deal and now what is he doing? He’s praising him on a nightly basis, how did that work out nick? By the time he’s halfway Into his deal he will actually be underpaid because guys like lafrenierre will be walking out of their elcs making 12-13 million because it’s just going to keep rising. Eichel then (four years in) will be what Crosby and stamkos are now (in the sense of better players making less then these new guys) so when it’s all said and done that’s four more years of Eichel in his prime and even better then he already is. And this is the first year of his deal and he’s on a 110 pt pace, leads the east in scoring among all centres (2nd in east among all players) and tied with kucherov in even strength scoring in the east at the Xmas break. Eichel Actually turned down a 8 x 11 deal to make more room under the cap for buffalo. McD isn’t the only one who turned down more money but he’s mcdavid and it’s canada so you likely didn’t hear about that. Ultimately what happened was Eichel decided to make 3.5 million less then mcdavid was offered at the time. Do you think that’s fair? Because of anything it makes eichels contract back then look even better. How on earth could anyone justify him taking less then the 3.5, connor was offered, because he’s not four million dollars worse then mcdavid is.

So not only is Eichel fairly payed, like I said in time he will be underpaid due to timely comparisons, prime entry and salary cap rising. People judge him on the money he makes today, I always felt that’s odd when a deal is max length but anyway I’d say he’s doing quite well in year one of eight, the deal is for another seven years and in the beginning year tied for sixth in the NHL in points at the Xmas break? I get it if you aren’t even saying Eichel is overpaid exactly but you act as if Eichel and draisaitl just changed the game and talents need more money, Eichel has proven he can anchor a team at over a point per game rate 168 pts in his last 164 games the last the seasons, while Draisaitl failed at trying to anchor a second line. He has impressive pt totals but he really hasn’t proven he can do it at a good rate away from mcdavid because that’s what the oilers were counting on when signing him. Anyway the point being players are being paid what they deserve like always, neither guy “changed the game”, it’s based off cap percentage and to a lesser extent the needs of teams, depending on their value and of course term. Players at the end of the day will still make around what they deserve, this narrative sounds a lot like “oh well so and so two players got payed this amount and now all these new guys will have to also” it’s uninformed, incorrect and ignorant. Whether you meant it that way? Only you know I’m just clearing this up for the readers.

You are taking this personally. I am talking about RFA inflation, which the CBA had intended to have them underpaid.

I'm not saying he is not worth it Jack, just as an RFA you guys should have got more of a bargain.

Obviously Tavares as a UFA has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

I'm not targeting Eichel, you know I respect him. I'm going to feel the same way about Matthews and Marner's contracts and I feel that way about Nylander's.

If Eichel was a UFA and I had the cap I'd pay him 11, but it's his status as an RFA that makes me say he should be discounted. That is not the same as saying he is overpaid.

 

[bobholly39]

A bit of wishful thinking but he is a hometown boy so we might get a slight discount. He wants to die a Leaf.

He'll get more than Dra but RFA's are now inflated due to Eichel and Dra's contracts. I think those contracts and the fall out are going to result in CBA chaos.

Top players being paid top money is not the problem with the cba

Its all the crappy players overpaid and teams stuck with it. Lucic for example

 

[BlueBaron]

Top players being paid top money is not the problem with the cba

Its all the crappy players overpaid and teams stuck with it. Lucic for example

It kind of is. At the rate things are going, with young stars being paid like UFA's there will soon not be enough money to keep all the talent in the league because of the finite spending permitted by the cap.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Top players being paid top money is not the problem with the cba

Its all the crappy players overpaid and teams stuck with it. Lucic for example

Look at Nylander wanting the same $8.5 million from Toronto that Draisaitl got from Edmonton when he was an RFA.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I voted Marner. I really don’t feel like this is all that close either.

 

[IPS]

This is Draisaitl's 5th year in the league and he's not even capable of out-producing Marner, he's not on the same level, it's just that simple.

 

[LeafsNation75]

This is Draisaitl's 5th year in the league and he's not even capable of out-producing Marner, he's not on the same level, it's just that simple.

Draisaitl should thank McDavid for ridding shotgun with him as part of the reason he has an $8.5 million cap hit. The other reason is Peter Chiarelli being the Oilers GM who was stupid enough to give him that contract.

 

[IPS]

Draisaitl should thank McDavid for ridding shotgun with him as part of the reason he has an $8.5 million cap hit. The other reason is Peter Chiarelli being the Oilers GM who was stupid enough to give him that contract.

He should be giving McDavid half his paycheck. He's pretty mediocre when he's not getting fed free points.

 

[Dache]

This is Draisaitl's 5th year in the league and he's not even capable of out-producing Marner, he's not on the same level, it's just that simple.

Marner has never scored more than Drai in a full season, what are you talking about? Sure odds are great he does this year, but to say he’s not capable of doing it when he has a few times is just incorrect.

 

[Royal Thunder]

This is way closer than it should be. Marner by quite a lot.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Marner has never scored more than Drai in a full season, what are you talking about? Sure odds are great he does this year, but to say he’s not capable of doing it when he has a few times is just incorrect.

Draisaitl is currently in his 5th NHL season and Marner is in his 3rd NHL season, so that's one reason why Marner has not outscored him yet. However I have feeling Marner gets more than 77 points which was Draisaitl total during the 2016-2017 season when he rode shotgun with McDavid.

 

[Dache]

Draisaitl is currently in his 5th NHL season and Marner is in his 3rd NHL season, so that's one reason why Marner has not outscored him yet. However I have feeling Marner gets more than 77 points which was Draisaitl total during the 2016-2017 season when he rode shotgun with McDavid.

I’m not saying Marner isn’t a higher producer at the same age, and not doubting for one second that he’ll outscore him this year. That’s not what IPS said unfortunately. Besides. Sometimes these at the same age comparisons get tiresome. Each side keeps flip flopping between that argument and how development isn’t linear. Sometimes the better player is older. Maybe the younger guy will get there but that doesn’t change the fact that sometimes the older guy is better right now. In this case the younger guy is outproducing the older. I think it’s closer than some are making it out to be but I will give Marner the edge right now.

 

[HarryLime]

Idk why Leafs fans ar ebashing Drai so badly. I mean, I agree that Marner is better but Drai is pretty good too

 

[McFlyingV]

Draisaitl is currently in his 5th NHL season and Marner is in his 3rd NHL season, so that's one reason why Marner has not outscored him yet. However I have feeling Marner gets more than 77 points which was Draisaitl total during the 2016-2017 season when he rode shotgun with McDavid.

Similarly its quite likely Draisaitl will outscore 77 points this season as well.

 

[WilliamNylander]

Marner. Better now with higher ceiling.

 

[justafan22]

Marner will likely be getting draisaitl's contract this summer.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Marner will likely be getting draisaitl's contract this summer.

Marner would deserve it a lot more at least asking for it than Nylander was.

 

[Bedards Dad]

Drai
Marner couldn't drive a mini if Tavares wasn't there holding his hand

And yet he had no problem with JVR and Bozak on his line.

Dria is good, Marner is better.