Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part V

[Cor]

10.5M x 8 years is a fine deal.

When you compare Marner's 2nd deal to Kane's 2nd deal, it would be around 9.3M x 5 years.

So, if he wants 10.5M, fine, but it's on an 8 year term. Anything less and it's 9.95M max.

 

[GrunbeldDragonKnight]

10.5? Get rid of him. I am hoping during the next lockout the owners ruthlessly go after the players. How is it that hockey is one of the least popular professional sports but has guaranteed contracts? People that justify this salary aren't fans of the Toronto Maple Leafs, they are fans of Mitch Marner.

 

[TheDoldrums]

10.5? Get rid of him. I am hoping during the next lockout the owners ruthlessly go after the players. How is it that hockey is one of the least popular professional sports but has guaranteed contracts? People that justify this salary aren't fans of the Toronto Maple Leafs, they are fans of Mitch Marner.

Pretty sure all major sports have guaranteed contracts except the NFL.

I'm on the side of fiscal restraint with Marner but guaranteed contracts are a great thing.

 

[IPS]

He wants to be the highest paid winger in the league eh?

Come on Rantanen, Point, or Aho.... sign and make this stuff look like the nonsense that it is!!!

 

[Walshy7]

Gonna be difficult to find a team willing to pay his ask. Same was true in Nylander case. Funny how the talk in NBA free agency is that some players are willing to take discounts to play with other stars. Not the case in Toronto.

when the offer sheet period passes (if we wait that long) and no other team offers him more then he will have to come back with his tail between his legs and sign our deal. WE can trade him without a deal in place if the other team is willing to take the risk of course that wont get us as good a return.

A NBA discount is $20M per season instead of $25/30M its a bit different when that level of discount in the nhl is a couple of million off of maybe $10M if you are lucky. If you are a star NBA player you are pretty much guaranteed to be making $20M per year easily because 1 star can change a team every single team will throw others overboard to fit that star in.

In the NHL McDavid cant even get his team into the playoffs!. Although most teams would try and throw a bunch of player overboard to fit him in if they could so not the perfect example

 

[Walshy7]

Come on Rantanen, Point, or Aho.... sign and make this stuff look like the nonsense that it is!!!

unless of course these undertones of the marner camps greed are true, then it wont matter what those guys sign for

 

[Cor]

Come on Rantanen, Point, or Aho.... sign and make this stuff look like the nonsense that it is!!!

I imagine all 4 of Marner, Rantanen, Point and Aho are all waiting for one of the others to sign.

And in some ways, the GM's are also waiting.

Marner's contract largely dictates our summer, more so than the other three does with their teams, so Dubas might be the one forced to make the move.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

- Signed in December 2010
- $6.3M AAV
- Salary cap at that time: $56.8M
- ~11.1% of the team's cap space
- 11.1% of $83M is $9.2M

Yes. Being a floor, Marner will make more.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

10.5 seems reasonable.
Deal should be able to get done pretty easily.

That’s almost 13% of the cap. Something entirely unprecedented for a player with his elc numbers. How is something entirely unprecedented in the league “reasonable”?

How did we get to the point where it’s “reasonable” for the leafs to throw the entire market on its head with every new contract?

 

[MyBudJT]

That’s almost 13% of the cap. Something entirely unprecedented for a player with his elc numbers. How is something entirely unprecedented in the league “reasonable”?

How did we get to the point where it’s “reasonable” for the leafs to throw the entire market on its head with every new contract?

Tell me, what is the precedent for a 94 point U22 forward?

 

[Mess]

10.5 seems reasonable.
Deal should be able to get done pretty easily.

Interesting how far we've come..

Last summer Marner apparently offered $9 mil X 8 and Dubas countered with $7.5 mil , where the Draisaitl deal at $8.5 mil X 8 likely the sweet spot that would have gotten a deal done.

Now $10.5 mil on a shorter term seems to be the expectation.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yes. Being a floor, Marner will make more.

Why on earth would that be the floor?

There’s just as much of a case for making it the ceiling.

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Tell me, what is the precedent for a 94 point U22 forward?

Kane’s contract is still the best comparable. He scored more goals and points over elc, and then won a cup scoring 28 points in 22 games.

He signed 11% of the cap. Not 13%

 

[4thline]

when the offer sheet period passes (if we wait that long) and no other team offers him more then he will have to come back with his tail between his legs and sign our deal. WE can trade him without a deal in place if the other team is willing to take the risk of course that wont get us as good a return.

Yup, it's pretty clear that we're playing a game of chicken that we (wisely) avoided with Matthews.

 

[ACC1224]

Interesting how far we've come..

Last summer Marner apparently offered $9 mil X 8 and Dubas countered with $7.5 mil , where the Draisaitl deal at $8.5 mil X 8 likely the sweet spot that would have gotten a deal done.

Now $10.5 mil on a shorter term seems to be the expectation.

Yeah, he had a great year.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yup, it's pretty clear that we're playing a game of chicken that we (wisely) avoided with Matthews.

Yeah. it I’m not sure if the best way to avoid a game of chicken in a contract negotiation is to give one party a blank cheque.

 

[MyBudJT]

Kane’s contract is still the best comparable. He scored more goals and points over elc, and then won a cup scoring 28 points in 22 games.

He signed 11% of the cap. Not 13%

I asked what the precedent was for a 94 point U22 forward...

Patrick Kane didn't hit 90 points until his U28 season (albeit, he was on pace to pass it in the lockout shortened season, his U25 season).

 

[Walshy7]

Yup, it's pretty clear that we're playing a game of chicken that we (wisely) avoided with Matthews.

offersheets are very risky, 4 1sts is a lot to give. No doubt in my mind the Coyotes would have offersheeted Matthews, and im sure financially it would make all kinds of sense. I cant see a team where marner would make that much sense at that price. BUT if they are willing to then we wither match or trade our new collection of 1st round picks

 

[IPS]

Kane’s contract is still the best comparable. He scored more goals and points over elc, and then won a cup scoring 28 points in 22 games.

He signed 11% of the cap. Not 13%

Patrick Kane also did that in a lower scoring league.

So tack on his elite playoff run plus him producing in a harder league to score in, and it's indeed unprecedented as you like to put it.

 

[IPS]

I asked what the precedent was for a 94 point U22 forward...

Patrick Kane didn't hit 90 points until his U28 season (albeit, he was on pace to pass it in the lockout shortened season).

You need to adjust for league scoring.. Look how many veterans are setting career highs in today's league. It matters.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I asked what the precedent was for a 94 point U22 forward...

Patrick Kane didn't hit 90 points until his U28 season (albeit, he was on pace to pass it in the lockout shortened season).

Oh, we’re going on just total points now on their best elc season? That’s interesting.

Well.. shouldn’t Nylander have made far less than Pastrnak and his 34 goals/70 points? Also, compare Matthews point totals (73, lol) to other centres who signed post elc contracts at around 15% of the cap.

There is NO consistency here.

Kane scored MORE goals and points over his elc than Marner.

 

[4thline]

Yeah. it I’m not sure if the best way to avoid a game of chicken in a contract negotiation is to give one party a blank cheque.

Smarter than lowballing him and him leaving. It cost 1 million more per year than the lowest it could have reasonably be expected if Matthews was willing to use an OS. The lowest, which assumes a team would only be willing to offer 10.6 x 5, not 4 or 3.

 

[4thline]

offersheets are very risky, 4 1sts is a lot to give. No doubt in my mind the Coyotes would have offersheeted Matthews, and im sure financially it would make all kinds of sense. I cant see a team where marner would make that much sense at that price. BUT if they are willing to then we wither match or trade our new collection of 1st round picks

In my opinion it's not the 4 1st comp that threatens negotiations, it's the 1st x 2 + 2nd +3rd. Pittance to pay for 3-4-5 years of Matthews, and his camp knew that if they drew at hard line at 10.6 (or wherever that threshold was set) x 3 that some team would be willing.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Yeah, he had a great year.

A completely predicted great year with a great linemate with a history of elevating his wingers whom tend to come back down to earth once they are no longer his linemates.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Smarter than lowballing him and him leaving. It cost 1 million more per year than the lowest it could have reasonably be expected if Matthews was willing to use an OS. The lowest, which assumes a team would only be willing to offer 10.6 x 5, not 4 or 3.

Most other gm’s can get their players to sign fair market value without chasing them out of town.

I mean... my standards aren’t ridiculous here. I just want fair market value based on league wide precedent. I just don’t want the entire market to be reset with every new contract dubas gives out.