Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVII (continued)

[hector morrison]

dubas is a moron and painted himself into a corner with that dumb 5 yr mathews contract. Now every kid is going to want a 5 year deal to get them straight into UFA status. im positive mitch would already have been signed if dubas didnt offer that contract. And most RFAs would already be signed.

Every kid isn't as good as Matthews or as valuable to the team!

 

[Pookie]

I would say that greed is a very unattractive trait and fans have every right to be put off by it.

If Marners ego is so big that he won’t even accept fair market value (which would make him among the richest 0.0001% of society), then he better damn well be prepared for a backlash.

Is every player that starts out with a high opening negotiation position a greedy character?

 

[HockeyAndWings]

And if we all had his skill level at our jobs, we’d all do the same.

Every kid isn't as good as Matthews or as valuable to the team!

Not necessarily. There are people who could've been professional athletes, but end up pursuing something more meaningful for the greater good of society

 

[Notsince67]

And if we all had his skill level at our jobs, we’d all do the same.

 

[Bomber0104]

IMO a lot of people get blinded by the persona that players put on for the cameras.

People see Marner through the TV as this goofy and lovable kid who's a hometown sweetheart. His actions behind the scenes strongly infer that he could very well have a huge ego and is very greedy. I dunno, it's just the way he let his agent come out and slam his fellow teammate's contract (agents do not do that, very rare to see one of them stir up drama like that) instead of telling him to keep it private and how he's been demanding an equivalent contract since then speaks volumes IMO.

That's an impressive level of insight you've gained from watching Mitch Marner on TV commercials.

Tell us more Sigmund Freud

 

[Notsince67]

IMO a lot of people get blinded by the persona that players put on for the cameras.

People see Marner through the TV as this goofy and lovable kid who's a hometown sweetheart. His actions behind the scenes strongly infer that he could very well have a huge ego and is very greedy. I dunno, it's just the way he let his agent come out and slam his fellow teammate's contract (agents do not do that, very rare to see one of them stir up drama like that) instead of telling him to keep it private and how he's been demanding an equivalent contract since then speaks volumes IMO.

This is just school girl gossip

 

[Nineteen67]

Not necessarily. There are people who could've been professional athletes, but end up pursuing something more meaningful for the greater good of society

Mother Teresa and who is other one?

The point is everyone wants to be compensated comparable to their colleagues and if you're really good at your job you’ll ask for more. It’s not a sin.

 

[HockeyAndWings]

Mother Teresa and who is other one?

The point is everyone wants to be compensated comparable to their colleagues and if you're really good at your job you’ll ask for more. It’s not a sin.

I've always thought that your best players should get paid well, as they bring the most value to the team, however, I feel that Marner is using his leverage as one of the best players on the team and being outrageous in his demands to the detriment of the Leafs.

Marner's demands seem to be requesting that he be compensated significantly beyond his comparables, which is the problem

 

[Bomber0104]

I've always thought that your best players should get paid well, as they bring the most value to the team, however, I feel that Marner is using his leverage as one of the best players on the team and being outrageous in his demands to the detriment of the Leafs.

Marner's demands seem to be requesting that he be compensated significantly beyond his comparables, which is the problem

Reports had Nylander asking for $8M/year..

Unreasonable or simply negotiations 101?

A majority of people on this very forum perceived Nylander to be "unfair" in his negotiations as well.

Nylander Chronicles Part XXV - Here’s a quarter, call someone who cares

Dubas calls this a process for a reason.

Rather than freaking out on the internet, maybe people should just watch and wait for the real professionals to work it out..

 

[HockeyAndWings]

Reports had Nylander asking for $8M/year..

Unreasonable or simply negotiations 101?

Let's hope it's just a negotiation tactic. Usually, a good deal occurs when both sides get a bit of what they want. One side isn't going to get everything they want, the Leafs and Marner have to find that balance point, without having relations deteriorate too significantly

 

[Nineteen67]

I've always thought that your best players should get paid well, as they bring the most value to the team, however, I feel that Marner is using his leverage as one of the best players on the team and being outrageous in his demands to the detriment of the Leafs.

Marner's demands seem to be requesting that he be compensated significantly beyond his comparables, which is the problem

All I’ve heard is speculation that he’s asking for Tavares and Matthews money.

 

[Bomber0104]

Let's hope it's just a negotiation tactic. Usually, a good deal occurs when both sides get a bit of what they want. One side isn't going to get everything they want, the Leafs and Marner have to find that balance point, without having relations deteriorate too significantly

Nylander did OK with his contract, seemingly without any hurt feelings, and that's after him missing almost half the season and then laying an egg on the half he did play.

Something tells me things will work out even better with the Marner situation.

Marner is a cut above Nylander after all..

 

[biotk]

Is there any chance that Marner and Dubas have agreed to a contract, but waiting to switch Horton's LTIR over on the first day?

No.

 

[HockeyAndWings]

All I’ve heard is speculation that he’s asking for Tavares and Matthews money.

If Dubas significantly low-balls one of his best players or a player significantly high-balls their organization, it is a very unclassy thing to do.

It is mainly speculation, but I do feel Marner is being outrageous, and based on some of the things he's said, he sees himself as a comparable to Matthews, but they play different positions, and Matthews brings more value to the team. Not to mention, that we haven't seen Matthews at his best yet, while we've seen Marner playing at close to full capacity so far.

Matthews and Marner have slightly different skill sets and bring different qualities to the team, but they are both very valuable players to the Maple Leafs

 

[HockeyAndWings]

Nylander did OK with his contract, seemingly without any hurt feelings, and that's after him missing almost half the season and then laying an egg on the half he did play.

Something tells me things will work out even better with the Marner situation.

Marner is a cut above Nylander after all..

Well, if Nylander had held out any longer and sat out, the relationship between the Leafs and Nylander would've most likely been severed, so that we would've had to trade him

 

[Bomber0104]

Well, if Nylander had held out any longer and sat out, the relationship between the Leafs and Nylander would've most likely been severed, so that we would've had to trade him

You trade him well before you sit him.

 

[biotk]

Cap Hit AAV would be calculated pro rata after the season starts - it's why Willy's cap hit last year was over $10,000,000 but his actual AAV is just under 7 million. Since we're so close to the salary cap this year after factoring in Marner's likely contract, we would exceed the cap if he waited like Nylander to sign a deal.

That doesn't mean it's impossible though. If Marner holds out and then has a change of heart and wants to sign after the season starts, Dubas could always trade away guys and their cap hits. It's not a likely scenario IMO, but this isn't exactly a "paint by numbers" negotiation.

This isn't the reason why it will be difficult to sign Marner after the season starts. Nylander counted for 6.96 against the cap last season just as he will every season. That 6.96 was all applied over the last 2/3rds of the season, but the Leafs had accrued extra cap space during the first 1/3rd of the season. This season will be very different.

The reason is the LTIR. If Marner isn't signed at the start of the season all of Horton, Dermott and Hyman will start the season on IR, not LTIR because they will be about 2.8M under the cap so they would get no cap relief.

If Marner signed on Dec 1st (which I assume would be 1/3rd the way into the season) they would be able to put Horton on LTIR at that time, but it would only provide about 3.55M in cap relief (vs around 6M if all three start the season on LTIR and Hyman and Dermott remain on it for 10 or 20% of the season).

 

[HockeyAndWings]

You trade him well before you sit him.

Definitely, if a player doesn't seem committed to the team and is not willing to compromise, you make the move well in advance.

I do think Marner is committed to this team, however, so you try and work out a deal with him

 

[Bomber0104]

Definitely, if a player doesn't seem committed to the team and is not willing to compromise, you make the move well in advance.

I do think Marner is committed to this team, however, so you try and work out a deal with him

Dubas needs to figure out whether he wants to be tough or just a pushover.

So far he's been tough on exactly zero players, from a player-contract perspective.

 

[FlareKnight]

Dubas needs to figure out whether he wants to be tough or just a pushover.

So far he's been tough on exactly zero players, from a player-contract perspective.

Either you are really exaggerating or your definition of being tough is really weird. Just look at all the bad contracts he's been pushover and taken. Kapanen and Johnsson really took the team behind the wood shed. Look at that massive contract Spezza signed. And yeah normally I wouldn't look at a guy like Spezza, but you did specify that he had been tough on zero players for contracts. Pretty sure they couldn't have made Spezza take less money.

I've liked some of his contracts a whole lot less than others. But it is just being dishonest to say he's been tough on nobody.

 

[HomerJLeafs]

Yall know right that hes not gonna sign before Oct 1?
Actually its better for the team too.
No training camp and no preseason games (and the Leafs again play a ton like more than most teams) gonna suck for him but he will be gud come December.
Bridge deal!!

 

[Twowingcantfly]

dubas is a moron and painted himself into a corner with that dumb 5 yr mathews contract. Now every kid is going to want a 5 year deal to get them straight into UFA status. im positive mitch would already have been signed if dubas didnt offer that contract. And most RFAs would already be signed.

The contract that was dumb(painting Dubas into a corner) is the 11.5/mil to sign another team's scorer when we didn't need one.

 

[TIGERCOOL]

I have a feeling they're going to tell Mitch he either signs before the season starts or he's sitting for the year. You've gotta draw a line in the sand at some point. Marner had a more than reasonable 10x8 offer on the table.

 

[MyBudJT]

Is there any chance that Marner and Dubas have agreed to a contract, but waiting to switch Horton's LTIR over on the first day?

There is, and it's very likely this is what is happening.

No chance. You guys know that LTIR can be used in the off-season, right?

The contract that was dumb(painting Dubas into a corner) is the 11.5/mil to sign another team's scorer when we didn't need one.

Except he didn’t do such a thing...

 

[MyBudJT]

I have a feeling they're going to tell Mitch he either signs before the season starts or he's sitting for the year. You've gotta draw a line in the sand at some point. Marner had a more than reasonable 10x8 offer on the table.

If they didn’t draw a line in the sand for Nylander, they won’t for Marner