Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVII (continued)

[crump]

so is there a Coles notes version of possible scenarios..I see the Horton LTIR problem above.

• I think he is asking too short a term for any Offer Sheet right?
• Dubas probably wants longer term but is too low in Marner camp opinion on a shorter term AAV scenario.
• He's water skiing so he doesn't really care too much right now.."let the agents and lawyers handle it"
• He needs to sign by the season start for Hortons LTIR to kick in. Otherwise what????

 

[Nylander88]

Yeah.
Of everything, I'd prefer Marner at fair market value. That's by far what I want to see the most. The 1-2 punch of Tavares/Marner and Matthews/Nylander barely even happened last year, and I look forward to seeing it.

But the leafs are facing a problem where they have to pay all of their players far above market value. They NEED to end that. Even if it means losing Marner.

If he won't accept fair market value based on Dubas's previous dramatic overpayments, then I sort of understand. If his pride matters that much, just take the 4 picks (or equivalence through trade), set the VERY important precedent that the dramatic overpayments are DONE, and use the cap space on polishing up the D for next year.

I have this funny feeling Marner is going to be the example like you mentioned. What he's requesting is insane and we can't afford to go over 10mil with him. I don't believe an offer sheet is coming unfortunately. And Dubas may be a bit irked by the fact that he spent a 1st to clear Marleau's cap space to make the necessary room for Marner and this is still happening. He has cleared the appropriate space. Marner is asking for more than what is fair market value. I think Dubas will be making trade calls next month

 

[Chungo2]

Is there any chance that Marner and Dubas have agreed to a contract, but waiting to switch Horton's LTIR over on the first day?

 

[Nylander88]

If the 4 firsts come to fruition (really hope they do), I hope they throw some coin on a 1 year at local man Justin Williams. Still a 50 point guy and he's unsure on retirement so a year would be all he would want. Plus he's mister game 7....maybe we could use him in the inevitable game 7 coming again against the Bruins lol

 

[HockeyAndWings]

It's unfortunate some of our players are me-first players and feel they're entitled to certain things without earning it yet. I wish our players would be more considerate of the team, given how our coaching staff has been to our players, I would've thought that our players would've learned by now. I expected more from our players than this.

 

[TheOneArmedMan]

It's unfortunate some of our players are me-first players and feel they're entitled to certain things without earning it yet. I wish our players would be more considerate of the team, given how our coaching staff has been to our players, I would've thought that our players would've learned by now. I expected more from our players than this.

Yeah it's sad especially since the Marlies have won more cups than the Leafs. Everyone is just after money

 

[Heisen]

Saw Mitch pick up a penny the other day.


He didn't like the term.

 

[Pookie]

It's like "How many ways can you slice an apple" LOL

Just one that I know of:

Us Men are idiots

 

[HockeyAndWings]

Yeah it's sad especially since the Marlies have won more cups than the Leafs. Everyone is just after money

If they had won the Stanley Cup and earned it, I wouldn't be as upset with their asks. The asks they seem to be requesting are as if they have already won multiple cups.

Of course, I'm ok with our best players getting paid, but let's just hope these guys don't regress after getting paid and they earn their paycheck.

 

[Pookie]

It's unfortunate some of our players are me-first players and feel they're entitled to certain things without earning it yet. I wish our players would be more considerate of the team, given how our coaching staff has been to our players, I would've thought that our players would've learned by now. I expected more from our players than this.

You mean they should be more like Shanahan?

Toronto Maple Leafs: The hypocrisy of Brendan Shanahan

 

[KaraLupin]

Is there any chance that Marner and Dubas have agreed to a contract, but waiting to switch Horton's LTIR over on the first day?

There is, and it's very likely this is what is happening.

 

[HockeyAndWings]

You mean they should be more like Shanahan?

Toronto Maple Leafs: The hypocrisy of Brendan Shanahan

Our players need a certain level of maturity to realize this, perhaps when they get older, they'll realize how naive they were.

There was also no salary cap when Shanahan played, so that is a completely different story.

 

[Notsince67]

It's unfortunate some of our players are me-first players and feel they're entitled to certain things without earning it yet. I wish our players would be more considerate of the team, given how our coaching staff has been to our players, I would've thought that our players would've learned by now. I expected more from our players than this.

Good god. All you folks have been brainwashed by the man.
Overly pious about being a company man.
Pay him or don't. The only thing I care about is performance. If you don't like his price let him go. Judging his character because he want to get paid is a bit much.
He isn't a slave. He understands what is at stake. He isn't easily replaceable but there is a price to his labor and he has a right to say yes or no. It's as simple as that

 

[HockeyAndWings]

Good god. All you folks have been brainwashed by the man.
Overly pious about being a company man.
Pay him or don't. The only thing I care about is performance. If you don't like his price let him go. Judging his character because he want to get paid is a bit much.
He isn't a slave. He understands what is at stake. He isn't easily replaceable but there is a price to his labor and he has a right to say yes or no. It's as simple as that

I'm not suggesting they just roll over and accept what is offered. They deserve to get paid for how much they're worth, and they better earn it.

I hope nobody on the Leafs asks for a ridiculous amount that they know they won't be able to live up to. The more they get paid, the higher the amount of pressure will be on them.

I just ask that they're reasonable and are considerate of themselves but also the team

 

[Nylander88]

It's unfortunate some of our players are me-first players and feel they're entitled to certain things without earning it yet. I wish our players would be more considerate of the team, given how our coaching staff has been to our players, I would've thought that our players would've learned by now. I expected more from our players than this.

I'd say Kappy and Johnsson signed very reasonable deals. JT Compher just signed for 3.5m per in Colorado today. Rielly and Kadri's deals were very reasonable at the time. It's not everyone. Heck if Nylander can put up 70+ points starting this year, his doesn't look so bad either suddenly. Tavares left money on the table, and Matthews deal is priced ok...but should have been for 8 years. I'd say as long as we don't cave to Marner's crazy demands, we're doing just fine. Marner could find himself being the butt end of a precedent Dubas may need to set. I agree though, it's disheartening. You want players that want to be here and don't nickel and dime

 

[Ashdown2]

dubas is a moron and painted himself into a corner with that dumb 5 yr mathews contract. Now every kid is going to want a 5 year deal to get them straight into UFA status. im positive mitch would already have been signed if dubas didnt offer that contract. And most RFAs would already be signed.

 

[Cor]

dubas is a moron and painted himself into a corner with that dumb 5 yr mathews contract. Now every kid is going to want a 5 year deal to get them straight into UFA status. im positive mitch would already have been signed if dubas didnt offer that contract. And most RFAs would already be signed.

lol

 

[LaPlante94]

dubas is a moron and painted himself into a corner with that dumb 5 yr mathews contract. Now every kid is going to want a 5 year deal to get them straight into UFA status. im positive mitch would already have been signed if dubas didnt offer that contract. And most RFAs would already be signed.

Were the GMs who signed Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Kane and many other franchise players also idiots for signing them to 5 year deals after their ELC?

 

[HockeyAndWings]

I'd say Kappy and Johnsson signed very reasonable deals. JT Compher just signed for 3.5m per in Colorado today. Rielly and Kadri's deals were very reasonable at the time. It's not everyone. Heck if Nylander can put up 70+ points starting this year, his doesn't look so bad either suddenly. Tavares left money on the table, and Matthews deal is priced ok...but should have been for 8 years. I'd say as long as we don't cave to Marner's crazy demands, we're doing just fine. Marner could find himself being the butt end of a precedent Dubas may need to set. I agree though, it's disheartening. You want players that want to be here and don't nickel and dime

Given that some of our best players are getting paid a bit more than they should be, I'm ok with that. It's just that Marner's contract does serve a precedent for the Leafs moving forward, so it is very important that Marner is signed to a reasonable deal.

As long as, the remaining deals on the Leafs are reasonable from now on, the Leafs should be ok

 

[diceman934]

Good god. All you folks have been brainwashed by the man.
Overly pious about being a company man.
Pay him or don't. The only thing I care about is performance. If you don't like his price let him go. Judging his character because he want to get paid is a bit much.
He isn't a slave. He understands what is at stake. He isn't easily replaceable but there is a price to his labor and he has a right to say yes or no. It's as simple as that

Exactly. No one knows the details yet people are calling him and names. Not one player on the Leafs are calling him names or thinking he is greedy etc.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Good god. All you folks have been brainwashed by the man.
Overly pious about being a company man.
Pay him or don't. The only thing I care about is performance. If you don't like his price let him go. Judging his character because he want to get paid is a bit much.
He isn't a slave. He understands what is at stake. He isn't easily replaceable but there is a price to his labor and he has a right to say yes or no. It's as simple as that

I would say that greed is a very unattractive trait and fans have every right to be put off by it.

If Marners ego is so big that he won’t even accept fair market value (which would make him among the richest 0.0001% of society), then he better damn well be prepared for a backlash.

 

[IPS]

I would say that greed is a very unattractive trait and fans have every right to be put off by it.

If Marners ego is so big that he won’t even accept fair market value (which would make him among the richest 0.0001% of society), then he better damn well be prepared for a backlash.

IMO a lot of people get blinded by the persona that players put on for the cameras.

People see Marner through the TV as this goofy and lovable kid who's a hometown sweetheart. His actions behind the scenes strongly infer that he could very well have a huge ego and is very greedy. I dunno, it's just the way he let his agent come out and slam his fellow teammate's contract (agents do not do that, very rare to see one of them stir up drama like that) instead of telling him to keep it private and how he's been demanding an equivalent contract since then speaks volumes IMO.

 

[Nineteen67]

Good god. All you folks have been brainwashed by the man.
Overly pious about being a company man.
Pay him or don't. The only thing I care about is performance. If you don't like his price let him go. Judging his character because he want to get paid is a bit much.
He isn't a slave. He understands what is at stake. He isn't easily replaceable but there is a price to his labor and he has a right to say yes or no. It's as simple as that

And if we all had his skill level at our jobs, we’d all do the same.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yeah.
Of everything, I'd prefer Marner at fair market value. That's by far what I want to see the most. The 1-2 punch of Tavares/Marner and Matthews/Nylander barely even happened last year, and I look forward to seeing it.

But the leafs are facing a problem where they have to pay all of their players far above market value. They NEED to end that. Even if it means losing Marner.

If he won't accept fair market value based on Dubas's previous dramatic overpayments, then I sort of understand. If his pride matters that much, just take the 4 picks (or equivalence through trade), set the VERY important precedent that the dramatic overpayments are DONE, and use the cap space on polishing up the D for next year.

He has every right to expect at least 9.5 per for 4 years and then be the first to cash in as a UFA.

It would be difficult to watch two players get more than him and another guy literally steal 10 million last year.

 

[Mr Hockey]

IMO a lot of people get blinded by the persona that players put on for the cameras.

People see Marner through the TV as this goofy and lovable kid who's a hometown sweetheart. His actions behind the scenes strongly infer that he could very well have a huge ego and is very greedy. I dunno, it's just the way he let his agent come out and slam his fellow teammate's contract (agents do not do that, very rare to see one of them stir up drama like that) instead of telling him to keep it private and how he's been demanding an equivalent contract since then speaks volumes IMO.

I'm thinking Dubas may have tried to push the Marner camp a little too hard last summer to sign a deal and he annoyed the Marner camp and that's why you got the Matthews comment and Marner playing hardball now ... very possible