Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XIV

[Mr Hockey]

speaking of players who drive lines.......

YES, MITCH IS A 60-70 PT GUY WITHOUT TAVARES.

No context in those stats, don't know the QOT, QOC, zone starts, the situations,etc

 

[Havoc]

Why does kucherov have a higher cap % then stamkos if goal scoring centers are more valuable?

Hard to compare. Kucherov is a consistent 30-40 goal scorer.

Put yourself in any GM's shoes. Would you take someone serious if they wanted "elite goal scorer" to be accounted for in their salary when they only scored 26 playing 82 games with JT?

Kucherov is being paid as both an elite play maker and elite goal scorer. Him and Stamkos will both put up 40G / 50A playing together.


Now that you mention it though, Stamkos contract is such a steal for Tampa. Pretty sure the bids exceeded 8.5 when he was a FA.

Definitely a valid question you asked. Kucherov just had a hat trick at the awards though so when you enter that category of elite the rules most likely change. He's the no.1 winger in the entire league not just his team.

At this point I think he's better than Stamkos and as my best friend diceman says, "The best player on the team is paid the most".

 

[Throw More Waffles]

...... in how many less games now? And what was the point difference?

You're better than this bro.

But that post was talking specifically about goals, and how they're far more important.

The very second I show a statistic that challenges that, it falls right back to points.

Here's what's happened.
Matthews got HEAVILY overpaid (especially when considering term)... like, at an unprecedented level. This is affecting negotiations with Marner, just like every sensible person knew it would.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

lol ironic that JT was asking to play with Mitch when he signed, when it looks like Mitch should have been the one doing the asking

To be fair, if I were JT I wouldn't have liked the alternatives...

Nylander wasn't signed at the time, and after that it was a bunch of rookies. Seems like the type of request everyone would want to make.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

25 more games than Matthews, but no he's not coming anywhere close after his last season.

A lot of people have him making somewhere in the 8's. My guess is he takes a shorter bridge deal for somewhere in the 6's or 7's and then goes for bank after that.

I've never understood why the argument of "Matthews just gets hurt all of the time" is used to rationalize Matthews getting paid more money.

 

[81Leafs50]

Laine has ONE less goal than Matthews.

You think he's goint to get 11.6x5 or anywhere freaking near?

Laine is easily a 10M, something that Marner is not.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

...... in how many less games now? And what was the point difference?

You're better than this bro.

Laine has played 25 more games than Matthews so far.

 

[Bomber0104]

How is it hard to prove. JT has multiple seasons with close to the same amount of points, Marner has no seasons with anywhere close to the amount of points.

Seems pretty easy to prove.

If you're assuming:

A) Marner has not improved at all over his first three seasons in the NHL

B) The only variable impacting his year-to-year performance is his linemates

Then yes, that theory might hold up..

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I've never understood why the argument of "Matthews just gets hurt all of the time" is used to rationalize Matthews getting paid more money.

Because he did not miss significant time and they probably assumed he wouldn't miss significant time in the future.

If he does continue to only play something like 60 games per year, he's not going to get much of a raise in 5 years obviously.

 

[ajp4to]

If you're assuming:

A) Marner has not improved at all over his first three seasons in the NHL

B) The only variable impacting his year-to-year performance is his linemates

Then yes, that theory might hold up..

Also, Marner has never faced the top players from other teams, always secondary line matchups because of Matthews. Yes, still a great player but in the same class of Matthews is ridiculous.

 

[Notsince67]

Luckily that wasn't me. I've been nothing but objective with Marner during is entire time as a Leaf.

Though silent when the claim is made. Perhaps you need to examine what you are pushing

 

[rielledup]

speaking of players who drive lines.......

YES, MITCH IS A 60-70 PT GUY WITHOUT TAVARES.

Considering the numbers Marner was putting up in the second half of last season playing with Bozak and JVR it should probably make you think that those numbers might need to be given more context.

 

[Notsince67]

speaking of players who drive lines.......

YES, MITCH IS A 60-70 PT GUY WITHOUT TAVARES.

@IPS ...crickets

 

[81Leafs50]

Considering the numbers Marner was putting up in the second half of last season playing with Bozak and JVR it should probably make you think that those numbers might need to be given more context.

these were posted a while back and talked about a lot on twitter.

posted by Jeff Veillette (@JeffVeillette) | Twitter

 

[Havoc]

Considering the numbers Marner was putting up in the second half of last season playing with Bozak and JVR it should probably make you think that those numbers might need to be given more context.

Didn't Marner play with Kadri second half? JVR and Bozak became the third line and were given sheltered minutes.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Hard to compare. Kucherov is a consistent 30-40 goal scorer.

Put yourself in any GM's shoes. Would you take someone serious if they wanted "elite goal scorer" to be accounted for in their salary when they only scored 26 playing 82 games with JT?

Kucherov is being paid as both an elite play maker and elite goal scorer. Him and Stamkos will both put up 40G / 50A playing together.


Now that you mention it though, Stamkos contract is such a steal for Tampa. Pretty sure the bids exceeded 8.5 when he was a FA.

Definitely a valid question you asked. Kucherov just had a hat trick at the awards though so when you enter that category of elite the rules most likely change. He's the no.1 winger in the entire league not just his team.

At this point I think he's better than Stamkos and as my best friend diceman says, "The best player on the team is paid the most".

Could literally come down to who took more of a team friendly deal in Tampa. They are almost paid identically though. 11.95% vs 11.64%.

 

[rielledup]

The argument was that you and many other posters like to push the narrative that Marner increased JTs numbers more then JT increased Marner's numbers.

They both benefit from being on a line together, but based on points from their careers, Marner obviously benefited much more.

Do you seriously not realize the stupidity in making that argument for a player who was only in his third year this season? Do you forget Marner being on fire in the second half of last season? Are you new to sports and don't realize young players get better as they age?

 

[Notsince67]

lol ironic that JT was asking to play with Mitch when he signed, when it looks like Mitch should have been the one doing the asking

If you look at JT other linemates...there really wasnt any. The Tavares line was one of the most active in the league. Any without metric is usually a mistimed shift change. Ask the troll to put up minutes.

 

[Bomber0104]

Also, Marner has never faced the top players from other teams, always secondary line matchups because of Matthews. Yes, still a great player but in the same class of Matthews is ridiculous.

The Marner line is the Leafs' 1st line, not Matthews'.

 

[18leafsfan18]

If you're assuming:

A) Marner has not improved at all over his first three seasons in the NHL

B) The only variable impacting his year-to-year performance is his linemates

Then yes, that theory might hold up..

Obviously there are multiple factors into why he had the points he had, but playing with an elite #1 C was absolutely one of the biggest factors that contributed to the season he had.

Tavares has done it with multiple wingers before as well.

 

[Havoc]

The Marner line is the Leafs' 1st line, not Matthews'.

Just think how blessed we are to have two lines that will be competing for first line honors next season.

Don't know how so much anger exists on this board. We are spoiled.

 

[Notsince67]

Also, Marner has never faced the top players from other teams, always secondary line matchups because of Matthews. Yes, still a great player but in the same class of Matthews is ridiculous.

Are you new? Marner face much higher QoC this year. Not even close.

 

[ACC1224]

It's never been explained why playing with Tavares is seen as a negative when discussing Marner.
Seems pointless and rather idiotic when they played 82 games together.

 

[Bomber0104]

Just think how blessed we are to have two lines that will be competing for first line honors next season.

Don't know how so much anger exists on this board. We are spoiled.

It seems like some people here are harboring actual resentment towards Marner for turning in the most productive offensive season since Sundin in 1997...

Isn't this what we want? Our young players to put up stupid good numbers?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

@IPS ...crickets

doesn't that show Marner performs worse without Tavares, and Tavares does better without Marner?