Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XIV

[ajp4to]

I

So the sky is falling is it?

if there is a team willing to pay Marner 11+ name the team. All this BS about Marner turning down offer sheets is him turning down Aho sheets. No team in the league would give a small, frail winger playing along a superstar with a 3-year track record 11+, and give up assets for the privilege...

 

[18leafsfan18]

I meant Kapanen with his tunnel-vision wouldn't have ever found himself in a position on the ice to find JT's stick for a tap-in.

But again I guess your own little projections for some reason steer you into thinking I'm running down JT in some way...

The argument was that you and many other posters like to push the narrative that Marner increased JTs numbers more then JT increased Marner's numbers.

They both benefit from being on a line together, but based on points from their careers, Marner obviously benefited much more.

 

[Stamkos4life]

As mentioned in the post you quoted, Marner's P/60 was identical to JT's last year (3.08 P/60).

Marner saw a greater increase to his P/60 this year than JT did, as Marner finished 1st on the team (adjusted for SHTOI).

If anything should be gleaned from these stats, it's that JT and Marner playing together has most certainly been mutually beneficial, and that neither player is individually responsible for their production this past season.

Ah I wasnt exactly sure which year you meant by "Marner had an identical P/60 to Tavares last year."

Where are you getting these stats from?

The eye test says that marner does a lot of the lifting on that line but maybe that's because he is the better puck carrier

 

[Notsince67]

You must be ignoring @Notsince67 then because he's adamantly pushing this agenda.

Im pushing nothing.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

I been around a long time. Marner drove that line offence and JT attempted to do to much in the playoffs acting like a one ma’am show and it did not work out for him. Let’s hope he has learned from his mistakes as it hurt as a lot.

Marner produced at the same pace for 40 games the season before including the playoffs with Kadri and Marleau so if you want to split hairs then the effect that JT had on his was trivial. JT scored a lot more goals this season being fed by Marner. People on here who attempt to minimize Marners accomplishments are funny. He would have had more points had he not played a ton on the pk. Something he gets no credit for. Marner drives his line always has.

One ma'am show lol...funny

but no agree to disagree (you and I seem to do that a lot here hahaha) not to diminish Marner but JT helped drive that line too...wasn't just Marner wasn't just JT...neither one of them accomplish what they did last year without the other one

 

[Bomber0104]

The argument was that you and many other posters like to push the narrative that Marner increased JTs numbers more then JT increased Marner's numbers.

They both benefit from being on a line together, but based on points from their careers, Marner obviously benefited much more.

You'll find that incredibly difficult to prove.

Well actually one way is to watch JT play with someone else which may very well happen if Marner doesn't have a contract to start the season.

 

[Mr Hockey]

IMO, Tavares is a 30'ish goal scorer, Marner may turn him into a 40-50 goal scorer

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Is this really thread XIV on this subject? Yikes!!

I look in on this thread periodically hoping to see some (legit) news.

What I see frequently is the bickering and the "taste great" versus "less filling" type debate (reference to the old Miller beer commercial).

Not much news happening here unfortunately.

 

[81Leafs50]

of course they are since you and others believe crapping on MM will lower his demands but once he's signed you and others will be on the main boards arguing he's one of the best forwards in the league and on a steal of deal regardless of what he signs for

I'm not crapping on anyone.

Why is considered disrespect to pay Mitch Marner on the level of Backstrom. 11.28% of the cap is no slight to Mitch Marner or his talent level. At least Backstrom can say he scored 30 goals in a season once.

If Matthews got paid in relation to Crosby's cap % then what is disrespectful about correlating Marner with a potential HOF playmaker?

this is what I dont get.

Just becuase you think he is the best playmaker on the Leafs does not make him the best playmaker in the NHL. Patrick Kane is a top 5 playmaker in the NHL and he gets 10.5M(cap % of 14.22), in todays cap world of 81.5M thats 12.4M.

HOW ON EARTH can anyone put Marner on the same level as P Kane???? multiple 40 goal seasons. TOP 5 in assists over the last 5 seasons (Nick Backstrom being #1).

no one is disrespecting Marner by putting him 1 level below these guys, but to put Marner on the SAME level of these guys is disrespectful to KANE, BACKSTROM etc.

All of you Marner lovers really need to take it down a notch.

THE GUY IS NOT TOP 10 IN ANY MEANINGFUL STAT.

12th in assists 22nd in pts since being drafted. FACTS!

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

IMO, Tavares is a 30'ish goal scorer, Marner may turn him into a 40-50 goal scorer

not sure why you are winking, but Tavares has scored 37 and 38 goals before without Marner, and in lower scoring years. It's more to do with his role changing than Marner actually making him a better player though

 

[Notsince67]

Believe it or not, Tavares actually has two top-5 finishes in goals for seasons (12-13 and 14-15) and has a legitimate track record of showing he can be an elite goal-scorer with no Marner in the picture.

Let's put this nonsense narrative of Tavares relying on Marner aside already, because this is just so stupid.

What is stupid is watching all the fools on this forum stay silent when someone claims Marner is only a 60ish point forward without Tavares and then watching them all come out when truth of who drives that line is stated. I highly suspect that a lot of posters here will go the same place as Mitch Minus next year. What you are doing is twisting things and it is shameful. Cant wait to throw some of this stuff back at people next year

 

[IBeL34f]

Ah I wasnt exactly sure which year you meant by "Marner had an identical P/60 to Tavares last year."

Where are you getting these stats from?

The eye test says that marner does a lot of the lifting on that line but maybe that's because he is the better puck carrier

www.NHL.com/stats

 

[81Leafs50]

Patrick laine has 1 less goal over their elc. If goals are that important, shouldn't he be getting 11+ mil as well? Or are you going to tell me there is more to hockey then scoring goals?

Laine is going to get paid 10M minumum.

Vegas killed the market on goal scoring wingers when the paid the losers 9.5M.

 

[Mr Hockey]

not sure why you are winking, but Tavares has scored 37 and 38 goals before without Marner, and in lower scoring years. It's more to do with his role changing than Marner actually making him a better player though

oh ok ...

 

[m1ker]

Please stop the nonsense.

Tavares had a plenty good track record of goal-scoring (as a primary playmaker at that) long before he came to Toronto.

I actually watched all 47 of Tavares goals and not to say anything about Marner but those goals were all JT sniping corners, deflecting the puck, or being in perfect position. If it was Gautier instead then Marner would not have gotten nearly as many assists.

 

[IPS]

What is stupid is watching all the fools on this forum stay silent when someone claims Marner is only a 60ish point forward without Tavares and then watching them all come out when truth of who drives that line is stated. I highly suspect that a lot of posters here will go the same place as Mitch Minus next year. What you are doing is twisting things and it is shameful. Cant wait to throw some of this stuff back at people next year

Luckily that wasn't me. I've been nothing but objective with Marner during is entire time as a Leaf.

 

[ajp4to]

IMO, Tavares is a 30'ish goal scorer, Marner may turn him into a 40-50 goal scorer

Taravers

with Marner or without ​

will be a 30'ish player (danm good) when other teams stop covering Matthews with there best players.

 

[Mr Hockey]

I actually watched all 47 of Tavares goals and not to say anything about Marner but those goals were all JT sniping corners, deflecting the puck, or being in perfect position. If it was Gautier instead then Marner would not have gotten nearly as many assists.

If it was the goat, Mitch would be shooting more and adapting his game to his linemates

 

[81Leafs50]

What is stupid is watching all the fools on this forum stay silent when someone claims Marner is only a 60ish point forward without Tavares and then watching them all come out when truth of who drives that line is stated. I highly suspect that a lot of posters here will go the same place as Mitch Minus next year. What you are doing is twisting things and it is shameful. Cant wait to throw some of this stuff back at people next year

speaking of players who drive lines.......

YES, MITCH IS A 60-70 PT GUY WITHOUT TAVARES.

 

[18leafsfan18]

You'll find that incredibly difficult to prove.

Well actually one way is to watch JT play with someone else which may very well happen if Marner doesn't have a contract to start the season.

How is it hard to prove. JT has multiple seasons with close to the same amount of points, Marner has no seasons with anywhere close to the amount of points.

Seems pretty easy to prove.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

MOST GOALS SINCE 2016-2017
Ovie - GP 245 - Goals 133
Kucherov - GP 236 - Goals 120
Tavares- GP 241 - Goals 112
McDavid- GP 242 - Goals 112
Matthews- GP 212 - Goals 111

top 5 in goals scored. no PP or EV bull****.

top 5 production in less games than everyone in front of him.

Where is Marner? 12th in assists, 22 in pts.

Laine has ONE less goal than Matthews.

You think he's goint to get 11.6x5 or anywhere freaking near?

 

[inthe6ix]

speaking of players who drive lines.......

YES, MITCH IS A 60-70 PT GUY WITHOUT TAVARES.

lol ironic that JT was asking to play with Mitch when he signed, when it looks like Mitch should have been the one doing the asking

 

[IPS]

Laine has ONE less goal than Matthews.

You think he's goint to get 11.6x5 or anywhere freaking near?

...... in how many less games now? And what was the point difference?

You're better than this bro.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

speaking of players who drive lines.......

YES, MITCH IS A 60-70 PT GUY WITHOUT TAVARES.

Those are daunting statistics that should end the argument.

But it won't.
Lord knows it won't.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Laine has ONE less goal than Matthews.

You think he's goint to get 11.6x5 or anywhere freaking near?

25 more games than Matthews, but no he's not coming anywhere close after his last season.

A lot of people have him making somewhere in the 8's. My guess is he takes a shorter bridge deal for somewhere in the 6's or 7's and then goes for bank after that.