Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Less than 2 weeks to camp

[PromisedLand]

The 3rd screw up would be caving into insane Marner's 11.5 million demands. The somewhere between Aho and Kucherov contacts is where Marner should fall anything more is a screw up. If Nylander's contract is deemed an over pay he should be traded but not so you can over pay market value on Marner. Matthews is a hope and pray situation that he lives up to the money and doesn't walk at the end of his contract. You don't trade franchise centres even if they are over paid. High scoring wingers are dime a dozen you can survive trading then ie. Kessel.

That would be absolutely stupid by dubas to give marner 11.5 AAV contract; he already screwed up matthews' contract and ruined one full year of nylander by taking negotiations till dec. 1st and has already traded two first round picks for a first round exit.

If Matthews had been given the same AAV for 8 years nobody here would have been complaining; given Matthews is a center and they have to help down low more than the wingers; Marner at 9 to 9.5 AAV for 8 years would have been fine.

Dubas screwed up Matthews term; Leafs just cannot afford to have Nylander, Matthws and Marner as UFAs at the same time. Marner has to be a 6 year term or a 3 year bridge.

P.S. Kessel deal of retaining 1.2 AAV is biting the leafs on their ass well. Guess you made that call?

 

[Kiwi]

Umm ya because JT is a finisher and Bozak and JVR missed a ton of open nets. You watch the games if Marner is off that line pretty much didn't score. Someone has to be the playmaker, and that's Marner. Those games he wheels around and creates space, draws the defenders in leaving JT open? Ya but he doesn't drive the line.

Tavares was a playmaker before he got here, because guess what? He's so good he can Taylor his game to the guys he's playing with and make them better, that's what great players do

JVR is one of the best finishers and net front guys in the game that scores no matter where he is so that's bunk

Just a question, what was Marner's previous career high in points before he got here and what was Tavares? Then get back to me about who's driving the line for who

Nobody is calling Marner McDavid level player. But discounting what Marner brings to the team compared to Nylander; and the same posters praising nylander based on some fairy tale stat and saying 27 points is not a problem; while in the same breath say that Marner scoring 90+ points is nothing special because of tavares is short sighted and hypocritical.

Marner is a special talent and we need to lock him for at least 6 years. If he wants a 3 year bridge it has to be between 7 and 8 AAV; given Aho just signed for 8.5 AAV for 5 years;

All that said, the current situation leafs are facing is because of lack of foresight from Dubas; why is it that Dubas' moves cannot be questioned? Everytime someone critics Dubas; his supporters go on a rant; call the other posters troll or insinuate that they are not leafs fans. Why is Dubas' lack of foresight treated as "hands-off"? and there is continuous marner bashing by those posters in this thread; meanwhile these are same posters that vehemently defended both dubas and nylander till december 1st last year; and are still defending both of them even after the abysmal season from nylander.

Hypocrisy 101 from their posts right there

I've got no problem giving Dubas **** but I do find it funny how basically no RFA signed last offseason but Dubas sucks because he couldn't force Marner to sign, that's a 2-way street, maybe Marner shouldn't have been such a greedy **** and just signed
Monday morning QBing at it's worst

Just because people don't see Marner like you do doesn't make their options invalid and anybody talking about Marner driving Tavares line deserves pushback, its beyond bad

Nylander is an excellent player, Marner is better but you using Nylander's numbers from last season without any qualifiers just shows how partisan you are, your the last person to talk hypocrisy

 

[hamzarocks]

Give Marner 9.6x6 and he becomes the 3rd highest winger aav in the world.

The amount of mental gymnastics in this thread trying to spin this as anything other than overwhelmingly fair to Marner is madness

The RFA landscape is really becoming messed up. If you look at the deal you have your right it's an insanely fair deal for marner just based on his current accomplishments and compared league wide(he isnt the 3rd best winger right now and 6 years is enough for another huge pay day). If you look at it internally with Matthews deal 9.6x6 is a much better deal than 11.63x5. Also guys like rantanen, tlachuck, point are probably all looking for 9-9.5 on a 5 year deal(everyone wants 5 years it seems). So a 9.6x6 becomes a good deal if compared to a 9.5x5 deal. Reality is this group of RFAs are all very talented and some are franchise level players. They all want to get paid big money which is fine but none want to give term. Reports have term being a problem in point, tlachuck, and rantanen negotiations with all wanting 5 years. Its gonna be really hard to swallow a 9.5-10.5 mill deal for 5/6 years when we compare it with stars who signed before this current RFA crop(Kuch, Kane, Wheeler, Kessel, Marchand, Ovy, Etc). Teams are in a bit of a lose-lose situation.

 

[Cor]

Oh god, the 9.5M x 3 is true, isn’t it

 

[ULF_55]

I think we all want the team to do well, that's a given.

As far as Hyman goes, wut?

Bobo and Dubas discussed available salary and talked about Horton and Clarkson.

Dubas then added (paraphrasing) we also have Hyman and Dermott on LTIR ... it seemed like he was including that amount with the other LTIR they can use for marner ... more in the advent of an offersheet.

 

[PromisedLand]

I've got no problem giving Dubas **** but I do find it funny how basically no RFA signed last offseason but Dubas sucks because he couldn't force Marner to sign, that's a 2-way street, maybe Marner shouldn't have been such a greedy **** and just signed
Monday morning QBing at it's worst

Just because people don't see Marner like you do doesn't make their options invalid and anybody talking about Marner driving Tavares line deserves pushback, its beyond bad

Nylander is an excellent player, Marner is better but you using Nylander's numbers from last season without any qualifiers just shows how partisan you are, your the last person to talk hypocrisy

The rationale for my frustrations as a Leafs fan is written out on page 1 of this thread. Below is the link:

Salary Cap: - Marner Contract Discussion - Less than 2 weeks to camp


And this is not a "hingsight" view; I've been saying that since last summer even before we signed JT but especially after we signed JT.

Dubas just took it too easy for lord knows why? Shanny had commented in the media that he was looking to get some discount from the "young leaders" on the roster to keep the "team" together; that was shut down and Dubas came out and made huge claims of "we can and we will"; and talked about "fair market price" whcih was all fine and dandy; and then he takes nylander contract to dec 1st; give matthews that inflated deal and is now caught in between the two fiascos as an executive that is asking another RFA to bendover....

More importantly, what pisses me off are the dubas and nylander apologists that chime in and say that nylander's season last year was not an issue but shred marner's production as if tavares carried marner on that line. which is not true

 

[DarkKnight]

Oh god, the 9.5M x 3 is true, isn’t it

You betcha! #dubiedollars

 

[PromisedLand]

Oh god, the 9.5M x 3 is true, isn’t it

for a 3 year term better be less than 9.5 AAV or if it is 9.5 AAV the salary on the last year be between 8 and 9 million

if a 6 year term could not be negotiated and in the next 3 years Leafs have no cup (or deep runs); I'd be amazed if Dubas will ever get an executive job in the future in the NHL

 

[13pacheco31]

The rationale for my frustrations as a Leafs fan is written out on page 1 of this thread. Below is the link:

Salary Cap: - Marner Contract Discussion - Less than 2 weeks to camp


And this is not a "hingsight" view; I've been saying that since last summer even before we signed JT but especially after we signed JT.

Dubas just took it too easy for lord knows why? Shanny had commented in the media that he was looking to get some discount from the "young leaders" on the roster to keep the "team" together; that was shut down and Dubas came out and made huge claims of "we can and we will"; and talked about "fair market price" whcih was all fine and dandy; and then he takes nylander contract to dec 1st; give matthews that inflated deal and is now caught in between the two fiascos as an executive that is asking another RFA to bendover....

More importantly, what pisses me off are the dubas and nylander apologists that chime in and say that nylander's season last year was not an issue but shred marner's production as if tavares carried marner on that line. which is not true

I think a lot of people over hype that whole we can and we will quote as if it means anything. It's just lip service and always was. Had zero barring on negotiations

 

[PromisedLand]

Bobo and Dubas discussed available salary and talked about Horton and Clarkson.

Dubas then added (paraphrasing) we also have Hyman and Dermott on LTIR ... it seemed like he was including that amount with the other LTIR they can use for marner ... more in the advent of an offersheet.

offersheet season is gone; nobody is offersheeting marner; its too late now. Probability of Marner receiving any ofersheet now is close to zero

 

[IPS]

Conditioning complete.

The 9.5 x 3 deal public outcry won't outweigh the "but it could have been worse" retort.

Media sensationalism weapon put to great use once again and the fans are the ultimate losers yet again. That will hands down be the worst RFA contract ever handed out.

 

[MyBudJT]

Oh god, the 9.5M x 3 is true, isn’t it

It helps our short-term success a lot more than a 7 or 8 x 11 would.

Would also ensure the next contract would be solely during his prime years.

 

[hullsy47]

You betcha! #dubiedollars

Who says 9.5 ?

 

[PromisedLand]

Conditioning complete.

The 9.5 x 3 deal public outcry won't outweigh the "but it could have been worse" retort.

Media sensationalism weapon put to great use once again and the fans are the ultimate losers yet again. That will hands down be the worst RFA contract ever handed out.

I love marner; but it is going to be one of the worst RFA contracts ever if dubas paid that. Absolutely criminal!

It is a freakin' joke that dubas could not negotiate a 6 year deal if this is true.

 

[PromisedLand]

It helps our short-term success a lot more than a 7 or 8 x 11 would.

Would also ensure the next contract would be solely during his prime years.

My guess is Marner is going to outproduce everyone on the team for the next three years; his contract after that is going to be probably the highest for a winger that this league has seen since Ovi and that would come at the expense of icing a competitive roster

 

[PromisedLand]

WTF why are such "claims" being made anyway.....????

 

[Gary Nylund]

Bobo and Dubas discussed available salary and talked about Horton and Clarkson.

Dubas then added (paraphrasing) we also have Hyman and Dermott on LTIR ... it seemed like he was including that amount with the other LTIR they can use for marner ... more in the advent of an offersheet.

OK, I guess.

 

[ULF_55]

offersheet season is gone; nobody is offersheeting marner; its too late now. Probability of Marner receiving any ofersheet now is close to zero

You would think so, but at the moment everyone (capfriendly) can still offersheet 4 * 1st.

Insurance.

 

[MyBudJT]

My guess is Marner is going to outproduce everyone on the team for the next three years; his contract after that is going to be probably the highest for a winger that this league has seen since Ovi and that would come at the expense of icing a competitive roster

If it comes to that, you chose between superstar Marner at 8x13(ish) or Nylander 2X7.

 

[diceman934]

JT produced the same amount of points he usually does, while Marner's point totals went up significantly.

That is false. He produced way more 5 on 5 points by a long way then he ever did.

 

[diceman934]

Marner was 3rd on the team in scoring. He was 1st in points and assists. Funny thing about assists is you can't get them with a goal being scored which the opposite isn't true about goals.

He lead the team in scoring. Two years in a row. Facts.

 

[Cleetus]

He lead the team in scoring. Two years in a row. Facts.

lol you need to go back to the Rielly Avy its still weird to see you with the Mitchy one!

 

[diceman934]

Look at it this way, JT carried scrubs and only increased his career high by 2 pts. Marner's point totals jumped by 25 pts. Tavares has hit 80ish points before, Marner hasn't sniffed 90 pts without Tavares.

Ignore real facts is easy. How many more goals. How many more 5 on 5 points.

 

[DarkKnight]

That is false. He produced way more 5 on 5 points by a long way then he ever did.

12 more goals, 14 more points 5 v 5, ten year career, massive uptick.. Luckily, JT had a down year on the PP, otherwise Marner would get more.

 

[Kiwi]

Oh god, the 9.5M x 3 is true, isn’t it

Woof, that would be indefensible but let's just say it's about what I expected Cor

Oh well, the life of a Leafs fan I guess