Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Less than 2 weeks to camp

[Raymondo316]

Mark stone will be $9,500,000 to begin his contract with vegas this season. Marner is not worth that much and stone is. You are all out of line

P.Kane gets $10,500,000 now for years! His first 9 seasons in the league he never beat Marners 94 pts. Yeah just some perrrspkative

The difference is them players gave their teams a 8 year commitment, why Marner is wanting stupid money without giving us long term. If Marner wants the money hes demanding he should be giving us 8 years, not the rumoured 3-5 year deals he wants.

 

[Cleetus]

The difference is them players gave their teams a 8 year commitment, why Marner is wanting stupid money without giving us long term. If Marner wants the money hes demanding he should be giving us 8 years, not the rumoured 3-5 year deals he wants.

what do you think he should get @ 8 yrs?

 

[Smif]

The difference is them players gave their teams a 8 year commitment, why Marner is wanting stupid money without giving us long term. If Marner wants the money hes demanding he should be giving us 8 years, not the rumoured 3-5 year deals he wants.

I don't mind it because Marner is still a RFA after the three years.

3x9.5
+
3x11.5

= 6x10.5 /avg

Works for me.....

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I hope so Cor, I don't want to go full Throw More Waffles but I may have to at 9.5M×3

You're just now starting to figure out what I first figured out on Dec 1st 2018

Notice that I don't think I said even one single negative thing about Dubas prior to that date. I even fully supported his Sparks decision, though I was clear that it was a gamble that could backfire.

 

[Raymondo316]

I don't mind it because Marner is still a RFA after the three years.

3x9.5
+
3x11.5

= 6x10.5 /avg

Works for me.....

Or in 3 years time he can just sign his qualifying offer and walk for nothing the next summer. You just know his agent is gonna want that last year to have the highest salary so he has a high qualifying offer.

That 3 year deal is effectively just a 4 year deal.

 

[Warden of the North]

What the concensus on what is appropriate AAV for a three year deal?

 

[Menzinger]

What the concensus on what is appropriate AAV for a three year deal?

In this climate you'll probably get a fairly broad range of recipes. But its probably in the 6.5-8ish range in terms of aav on a 3 year deal

 

[Menzinger]

I also watched that line he was on, mostly shut down the big line of Boston.

And were in turn shut down by that Boston line.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

What the concensus on what is appropriate AAV for a three year deal?

Aho at 8.5 at 5 years? Marner at 3 should be 7-ish.

 

[hotpaws]

What the concensus on what is appropriate AAV for a three year deal?

6.5 x 3

 

[Throw More Waffles]

6.5 x 3

Yeah, 6.5-7, or thereabouts.

 

[Kiwi]

You're just now starting to figure out what I first figured out on Dec 1st 2018

Notice that I don't think I said even one single negative thing about Dubas prior to that date. I even fully supported his Sparks decision, though I was clear that it was a gamble that could backfire.

I've argued Matthews deal sucks and Nylander is overpaid by 200K-400K so I've never been on the Dubas is perfect train, his overall body of work mitigates that somewhat imo

Getting rolled by Marner will seriously make me think about heads rolling though

What the concensus on what is appropriate AAV for a three year deal?

Anything over 8M is straight up bad, over 9M is cringe worthy

I'd have said 7.75M-8M would be realistic in today's market, it's over but you can justify it somewhat

 

[KuleminFan41]

people use that as if tavares spoonfed marner

marner outproduced tavares; tavares and marner's pp production was pathetic; if they had scored even their career average on PP production both would have cracked 100 points.

Name the last winger that Tavares played with that out produced Tavares.

You guys are selling Marner short. I am not calling you out but your argument takes the same line as the arguments presented by the dubas cult that nylander's so called underlying stats were so good that one should overlook the abysmal 27 pt production because he was a lot better than that - apparently he was like a top5 something in some fairy-tale stat

with marner you have concrete production. And it is not like Marner has peeked already.... He is going to crack the 100 pts barrier sooner or later.

If I had to bet among all the Leafs who cracks the 100 points barrier first it would be Marner easily. That kind of potential is not easy to find in the NHL; we got something special here lets not discount marner so fast.

Tavares is one of the very best centres in the league. Every winger who plays with Tavares long term, has career highs. There's even articles about the Tavares effect and how linemates are negatively effected when they play away from him. Why do you think that is? Marner is no different. No one is suggesting Marner is David Clarkson by any means, but to openly try to discredit Tavares as much as possible, despite Marner gaining 25 points playing with Tavares is absurd. It doesn't matter that Marner out produced Tavares , all it does prove is that Tavares played with less than optimal line mates during his time in New York . Marner is on a similar boat, he's a low scoring winger who got matched up with an elite centre who can score 30+ goals a season. That's a big reason why his numbers jumped up significantly playing with Tavares while the latter didn't see a massive increase, except of course with his goals. However, it was never out of the realm of possibility that Tavares could reach 47 goals because of his previous high was 38.

We already have the proof of how well Marner plays with and without an elite goal scoring centre and we have proof of how well Tavares plays with and without an elite level winger. Marner needs Tavares more because of his lack of goal scoring. That doesn't mean Marner isn't an elite level player because he most certainly is, but this just proves why elite centres are more important than most elite wingers. I'm not sure Marner will score 100 points, he would have to increase his goal scoring and I'm not sure he's capable of becoming a 30+ goal scorer, he just isn't that kind of player. I think you may be setting yourself up for disappointment because not even in his last year in junior was Marner the best goal scorer on the Knights

 

[Warden of the North]

I don't hate 3 years.

Can't say the same for $9.5

I dont really hate either.

I hate overpaying bad, or old players.

"Overpaying" star quality talent in their early 20s really doesnt bother me all that much.

 

[LeafChief]

fraternizing with the enemy there mitch.

#notcool

Such a mindless post.

 

[Stephen]

Tavares is one of the very best centres in the league. Every winger who plays with Tavares long term, has career highs. There's even articles about the Tavares effect and how linemates are negatively effected when they play away from him. Why do you think that is? Marner is no different. No one is suggesting Marner is David Clarkson by any means, but to openly try to discredit Tavares as much as possible, despite Marner gaining 25 points playing with Tavares is absurd. It doesn't matter that Marner out produced Tavares , all it does prove is that Tavares played with less than optimal line mates during his time in New York . Marner is on a similar boat, he's a low scoring winger who got matched up with an elite centre who can score 30+ goals a season. That's a big reason why his numbers jumped up significantly playing with Tavares while the latter didn't see a massive increase, except of course with his goals. However, it was never out of the realm of possibility that Tavares could reach 47 goals because of his previous high was 38.

We already have the proof of how well Marner plays with and without an elite goal scoring centre and we have proof of how well Tavares plays with and without an elite level winger. Marner needs Tavares more because of his lack of goal scoring. That doesn't mean Marner isn't an elite level player because he most certainly is, but this just proves why elite centres are more important than most elite wingers. I'm not sure Marner will score 100 points, he would have to increase his goal scoring and I'm not sure he's capable of becoming a 30+ goal scorer, he just isn't that kind of player. I think you may be setting yourself up for disappointment because not even in his last year in junior was Marner the best goal scorer on the Knights

When Marner uses the numbers he produced carrying Tavares as the reason why he should be paid Matthews money, I would be curious to see what kind of production he would be able to generate playing on a line with Kerfoot and Mikheyev over 82 games.

Let Tavares fall back to his mid 30s, 80 point seasons centering nobody, let Matthews snipe 45+ and let 90 point Magic turn Kerfoot and a Russian UFA into superstars.

 

[Kiwi]

I dont really hate either.

I hate overpaying bad, or old players.

"Overpaying" star quality talent in their early 20s really doesnt bother me all that much.

It should, it's a hard cap league

If your paying more for your talent than other teams you end up with less talent for your money which makes you less competitive, that's a bit of an issue

 

[saffronleaf]

Stop being so greedy Mitch

 

[Dekes For Days]

What the concensus on what is appropriate AAV for a three year deal?

3-year bridge deals are hard to get comparables for because they are so rare, and the ones we do have have fairly unique circumstances.

Working off how he ranks compared to his peers and what he may deserve on a 5-year deal, he should probably hover around 9m on a 3 year deal (as a rough estimate).

 

[Stephen]

I dont really hate either.

I hate overpaying bad, or old players.

"Overpaying" star quality talent in their early 20s really doesnt bother me all that much.

My question is, if Marner is signed to a bridge deal, do you still give him the prime assignments to pile on the points, or do you let him sink or swim trying to carry his own line? If the guy thinks he's Connor McDavid, don't you just throw up to the wolves and see if he can spark up a third line that has the fire power of a first line?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I dont really hate either.

I hate overpaying bad, or old players.

"Overpaying" star quality talent in their early 20s really doesnt bother me all that much.

Even at 3 years?

Overpayment is overpayment..

Whether you have Marner at a great contract, offset by someone like Marleau at a horrible contract, or Marner at a horrible contract, and someone like marleau at a great contract... it amounts to the precise same overall team cap hit.