Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - 1 week to camp ... nothing

[Menzinger]

The problem with the idea that everything that is going in with RFAs this summer is because of Dubas is that there were interviews with agents even before Nylander signed that stated they thought this would happen. It's just a lazy, lazy narrative.

Yep.

This has been building for a while now league wide for the last couple years. Goes well beyond Toronto

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Maybe they are team first guys and were above trying to screw us.

I know Kappy just loves Toronto to death, I just wish our own hometown kid feels the same thing.

 

[Nineteen67]

Why didn't Kap and Johnsson do it?

Like cmon lol. They sky is always falling.

Johnsson was arb eligible and Kappy is lucky to be playing.

 

[Peasy]

Johnsson was arb eligible and Kappy is lucky to be playing.

I wouldn't put Kap and Dermott in separate tiers.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Johnsson was arb eligible and Kappy is lucky to be playing.

Why is Kappy lucky to be playing? He's a fantastic player.

 

[ShaneFalco]

did i say the sky is falling?
Dermott is being groomed here to be the #2 defenseman on a team that everyone knows is weak defensively. (and will have like. 1 defenseman or whatever). so if Dermott wants to get paid - he knows he can hold out. Did i say he will? no.



to be honest with you, i took a very big long break from anything everything hockey this summer (including being here) so i don't know what this camps negotiating tactics are so i don't have an opinion on them either way because i'm not aware of what they were/are.

You’re better off

 

[PromisedLand]

I'm open to paying Marner what he wants/keep him happy and trading Nylander to free up cap space going forward.
It's proven we can win without Nylander.

Nylander for Pesce+

Out: 7AAV
In: 4AAV

Net Gain: +3 AAV

Get Marner signed for 10.5X6; Pesce signed at 4AAV till 2023-2024; cap flexibility to add more forward depth;

top4D set

Muzzin Barrie
Rielly Pesce

Give Ceci's money to extend both Muzzin and Barrie

balanced roster; cap flexibility to add; win for the Leafs!

Personally would prefer Parayko for Nylander; but doubt Blues do that

 

[Dekes For Days]

People really like to panic about nothing in here. I can't see any scenario where Marner isn't signed by the end of the preseason.

Appreciate your players for how good they are. We went through a ton of garbage years with garbage players, and we came out of it with two of the best players of the last 20 years. Instead of being depressed because you don't understand why these contracts are being handed out, educate yourself and understand the quality of players we have.

This place is going to be hilarious when we don't place last in the league in PP opportunities.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Nylander for Pesce+

Out: 7AAV
In: 4AAV

Net Gain: +3 AAV

Get Marner signed for 10.5X6; Pesce signed at 4AAV till 2023-2024; cap flexibility to add more forward depth;

top4D set

Muzzin Barrie
Rielly Pesce

Give Ceci's money to extend both Muzzin and Barrie

balanced roster; cap flexibility to add; win for the Leafs!

Personally would prefer Parayko for Nylander; but doubt Blues do that

I'm down with that.

 

[moon111]

Gardiner gets the information he needs that he won't be resigned by the Leafs.
Marner signing coming up?

 

[PromisedLand]

I'm down with that.

Also looking at divisional rivals (boston, tampa) they are going to be in cap hell soon; leafs need to take advantage of that. I see a clear path to ECF in a couple years; Leafs need to set up the team right now that would gel well and be set for deep cup runs; only real threat in future seems to be Tampa because they have their core locked that said Vasy's 9.5AAV deal kicks in next year for Tampa and they have plenty of roster players to sign next season

Leafs just gotta be smart about it in terms of balancing out the team to set it up for success

 

[Notsince67]

It has nothing to do with how they play going forward after the contract. That will determine whether the contract turned out to be a good one or a bad. I am talking about whether a negotiation and deal makes the player and/or team look bad.



No. Neither Tampa or the Avs have spent the summer aggressively trying to sign their player. Marner is the one who sought out offer sheets. Marner is one whose camp said several embarrassing things last season. Marner is the one who is in Switzerland. None of that looks good.

If either Point or Rantanen eventually get a contract that looks like an overpay and results in the team needing to trade away a good player to cover the excessive contract then both the player and the team will look bad.

If what it takes to get Marner to agree to sign is so high that it results in the requirement that one of Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot or Ceci is traded then the deal will make both the team and Marner look bad.



If someone is a fan of the team and Marner's demands have made the team worse, and made the team's cup chances worse - then yeah - fans should care. Bizarre that this even needs to be stated.

And, of course, if it is a contract that becomes widely criticized then it wouldn't surprise me in Marner's production goes down significantly (something that should already be expected because his oiSH% was completely unsustainable last year anyway).

Nylander had a crappy season. Matthews was playing at a 50 goal, 50 assist pace (over 38 games) before the contract was signed. After his widely criticized contract he played at a 38 goal, 36 assist pace (or 30 games).

You are looking at pace yet we can add up his last 82 regular season games games and he falls short. 45 goals 84 points. You talk about sustainability and you point to a player like Marner who has run an over 90 point streak for 112 regular season games.
Your Marner hatred is out of hand.
Your hatred for Marner is evident.

 

[PromisedLand]

Yo capfriendly is showing both dermott and hyman on IR - they weren't on IR before or is it that off-season cushion being lifted?
Toronto Maple Leafs - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

something happening soon?

 

[Damisoph]

Everyone is saying the right things, but you gotta think the reception for Mitch will be a tad chilly...whether it be during camp or if he misses a few games.

 

[Confucius]

People really like to panic about nothing in here. I can't see any scenario where Marner isn't signed by the end of the preseason.

Appreciate your players for how good they are. We went through a ton of garbage years with garbage players, and we came out of it with two of the best players of the last 20 years. Instead of being depressed because you don't understand why these contracts are being handed out, educate yourself and understand the quality of players we have.

This place is going to be hilarious when we don't place last in the league in PP opportunities.

If he takes the preseason off, he can sit all year

 

[Dekes For Days]

If he takes the preseason off, he can sit all year

Except for maybe the last game or two, pre-season is meaningless. It's just a way for teams to make more money.

Frankly, I'd rather our star players not play pre-season games anyway.

 

[Notsince67]

And let’s not forget his camp’s negotiating tactics.

The game began with a lowball bid and a slow walk through negotiations last summer. This isn't all on the Marners camp.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The game began with a lowball bid and a slow walk through negotiations last summer.

This is untrue. Dubas confirmed that Marner's camp was the first he talked to after becoming GM, and that he didn't slow-walk anything.

 

[Notsince67]

This is untrue. Dubas confirmed that Marner's camp was the first he talked to after becoming GM, and that he didn't slow-walk anything.

Dubas stated last summer he was taking his time

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas stated last summer he was taking his time

No, he indicated that the signings would take time; not that he purposefully wasn't trying.

He literally confirmed it the other day. Marner's camp was the first one he talked to after becoming GM, and he did not slow-walk negotiations.

 

[Notsince67]

No, he indicated that the signings would take time; not that he purposefully wasn't trying.

He literally confirmed it the other day. Marner's camp was the first one he talked to after becoming GM, and he did not slow-walk negotiations.

Whatever.

 

[PromisedLand]

Whatever.

Also,

Nylander's contract talks could go down to wire (and that's OK) - Sportsnet.ca
“I’ve said all along that Kyle wanted to take things slow and I’m fine with that,” Nylander said.

Marner on if contract was offered by Dubas (June 2018)
Q&A with Maple Leafs’ Mitch Marner | The Star
Nothing has been said yet, but nothing you can do. If nothing happens, you still have a year to play under your rookie contract. Just go out there and try to prove you can make the team better.

Dubas cult is something else.....

 

[Dekes For Days]

Whatever.

Exactly as I said. He indicated that signings would take time. He wasn't going to make rushed, bad decisions on his core, especially after just becoming GM. Even if "it might be a little bit too patient for media and fans", who wanted everything done July 1st. This in no way says that he slow-walked negotiations last summer.

You're are spreading misinformation. You are speculating based on your interpretation for something that has already been clarified.

 

[biotk]

You are looking at pace yet we can add up his last 82 regular season games games and he falls short. 45 goals 84 points.

Adding isn't that hard, but.....in Matthews last 82 regular season games he has 45 goals and 89 points. And he did that while playing with injuries and while carrying poor line mates and while not playing with Tavares.

Of course, that has nothing to do with what I what I was talking about.

You talk about sustainability and you point to a player like Marner who has run an over 90 point streak for 112 regular season games.
Your Marner hatred is out of hand.
Your hatred for Marner is evident.

What I have said about Marner is true. I said last summer that he would never ever replicate his PP pace the second half of his second season. The Marner cult had their usual temper tantrum and whined and cried and just knew that he would because Marner was like a human cheat code on the PP. He didn't. I was right.

I say this summer that Marner is going to regress from his 12.7 ES oiSH% to about 10%. That is absolutely going to happen, just like it has happened with every other player who has a sky high oiSH% one season.

 

[Dekes For Days]

“I’ve said all along that Kyle wanted to take things slow and I’m fine with that,” Nylander said.

Funny how you left out the next sentence.

“They’re going back and forth with my agent from what I hear.”

Nothing has been said yet, but nothing you can do. If nothing happens, you still have a year to play under your rookie contract. Just go out there and try to prove you can make the team better.

In June 2018, a month after becoming GM, and before Marner could even sign a contract.