Prospect Info: Marlies and Prospects Discussion - 2018/19 Edition IV

[Mr Hockey]

Maybe as many points as Andrew Nielson, Maybe?

its funny, people in here considered him better than Dermott because of his last CHL season and first AHL season, I just laughed, Im laughing again

 

[stickty111]

Middleton is 20 years old. He has 10pts in 33 games.
Liljigren is 19 years old. He has 25pts in 64 games.

I wonder if Lilly was gifted easy minutes like Middelton, he would have more points.
Lilly is a beast.
Right now, Middelton is getting extremely lucky in the AHL. Its only a matter of time he gets dominated by forwards. His skating is terrible.

 

[zeke]

Not really. Many expected Dermott to make the team his third year at camp, that's how good he was second year. I don't see where Lil is "ahead" at all. Dermott had a very strong first year in the AHL. That isn't a slight on Lil, but guys like you had a #freelil hashtag his first camp, when he made zero impact, the hype was over the top, so perhaps there's a lesson there.

He should push for a job next camp, if he does, bravo young man. He will have competition though, Sandman is a keeper, of that I'm certain.

well, dubas and I expect Lilly to be on the team this year. I expect we'll be right.

 

[93LEAFS]

Liljegren had his status damaged by getting injured before the WJC. Let's just hope he proves people wrong. No point in getting too worked up about these rankings unless the people writing them making egregious errors. I disagree with Liljegren not being top 50 by either Button or Pronman, but there is at least a rational argument he isn't.

Now, let's be honest here. NHL teams have 10 to 20 man staffs to narrow down a draft list to 80 to 120 or so draftable players, and then rank them accordingly. We shouldn't expect one person to have a very accurate view of all draft-eligible prospects and players who currently have prospect status. Even if you could get a decent read on them in the limited viewings you have, trying to sort that into a coherent list is a nightmare. Take it for what it is, fodder people eat up because they are interested in prospects and want to see where their guys stand. Similar to why for whatever reason, people eat up Buzzfeed lists. These one-man prospect "gurus" are given an impossible task due to the demand for content.

We aren't drafting Matthews, Marner's or even Nylander's anymore. If we stay good having guys ranked highly will be sporadic.

 

[stickty111]

Maybe as many points as Andrew Nielson, Maybe?

Its not worth your time, trust me.

 

[stickty111]

LOL ...

I wonder how many more points Middleton would have if he was on the PP, the guy is a beast!

Lol.
You cant admit Lilly is better. Good thing the stats and the eye test show it.
Middelton is being sheltered, and ots making him look way better then he is.

Lilly isnt 4-5 years away from being a top 4 NHL d man.

 

[stickty111]

its funny, people in here considered him better than Dermott because of his last CHL season and first AHL season, I just laughed, Im laughing again

It is hilarious people thought Lilly wouldnt good in the AHL. Im laughing again

 

[WTFMAN99]

Liljegren had his status damaged by getting injured before the WJC. Let's just hope he proves people wrong. No point in getting too worked up about these rankings unless the people writing them making egregious errors. I disagree with Liljegren not being top 50 by either Button or Pronman, but there is at least a rational argument he isn't.

Now, let's be honest here. NHL teams have 10 to 20 man staffs to narrow down a draft list to 80 to 120 or so draftable players, and then rank them accordingly. We shouldn't expect one person to have a very accurate view of all draft-eligible prospects and players who currently have prospect status. Even if you could get a decent read on them in the limited viewings you have, trying to sort that into a coherent list is a nightmare. Take it for what it is, fodder people eat up because they are interested in prospects and want to see where their guys stand. Similar to why for whatever reason, people eat up Buzzfeed lists. These one-man prospect "gurus" are given an impossible task due to the demand for content.

We aren't drafting Matthews, Marner's or even Nylander's anymore. If we stay good having guys ranked highly will be sporadic.

100% this.

Another thing is that our scouting staff is going to really step up their game. We've transitioned from rebuild to contender. We're going to need to find players and ideally the odd home run in rounds 3-7 because picks in round 1-2 might not always be available to them.

 

[Mr Hockey]

100% this.

Another thing is that our scouting staff is going to really step up their game. We've transitioned from rebuild to contender. We're going to need to find players and ideally, the odd home run in rounds 3-7 because picks in round 1-2 might not always be available to them.

Yea, that's is why I didn't like losing Hunter

 

[WTFMAN99]

Yea, that's is why I didn't like losing Hunter

Hunter was better than what we had before. Dubas is inconclusive so far, I hope he does well.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Hunter was better than what we had before. Dubas is inconclusive so far, I hope he does well.

This next draft will be 100%, Dubas draft, see what happens

 

[WTFMAN99]

This next draft will be 100%, Dubas draft, see what happens

Yeah, but then like 3-4 years before we know how it went lol.

 

[stickty111]

Middelton got absolutely walked on a play, he isnt very good no matter what someone might believe.

 

[stickty111]

Middelton's stats are similar to Stuart Percy at the same age.
Both cant skate, and dont have good enough hockey IQ.
Percy is an AHLer. Very similar players.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Enough with the personal stuff folks...

 

[biotk]

Lilly is well ahead of Dermott at the same age. So if you like Dermott, you should really, really like Lilly.

Not really. Many expected Dermott to make the team his third year at camp, that's how good he was second year.

At the same age, Dermott was still more than a month away from playing his first regular season game with the Marlies (he had played one playoff game)

 

[Mr Hockey]

Yeah, but then like 3-4 years before we know how it went lol.

we are still developing what we have now, Dubas has to really do his homework when he makes trades and prospects are involved and keep searching Europe and the KHL for good ufa/rfa types

 

[biotk]

Seems a bit down on Lil, said there were thoughts he could be top pair but now see's him as a 4/5.

Button has thought that Liljegren would top out at as a 4/5 at least since draft day, so that is no change.

 

[WTFMAN99]

we are still developing what we have now, Dubas has to really do his homework when he makes trades and prospects are involved and keep searching Europe and the KHL for good ufa/rfa types

If Panarin had chosen us...oh boy.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Dermott is a late birthday and a CHL player, so Lilly will get 2 AHL season in before Dermott was eligible to play his first AHL season and that would be Lilys 3 rd AHL season.

 

[Mr Hockey]

If Panarin had chosen us...oh boy.

He was a beauty of a Ufa/Rfa?, whatever he was out of Russia, I dunno if there any left like him

 

[WTFMAN99]

He was a beauty of a Ufa/Rfa?, whatever he was out of Russia, I dunno if there any left like him

I don't think there is.

Gusev and Kaprizov rights are held indefinitely as they were drafted.

 

[Prodigy MayD]

He was a beauty of a Ufa/Rfa?, whatever he was out of Russia, I dunno if there any left like him

Was a UFA. There is another like him in Gusev (current property of Vegas); when he his 26 or whatever he will become a UFA and be able to come over.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Was a UFA. There is another like him in Gusev (current property of Vegas); when he his 26 or whatever he will become a UFA and be able to come over.

They have his rights indefinitely. Vegas Golden Knights Reserve List - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[93LEAFS]

Button has thought that Liljegren would top out at as a 4/5 at least since draft day, so that is no change.

Nope, he had him as a top 3 defender who projected like Dougie Hamilton and ranked him 10th overall. Sometime between the draft and his rankings last year he soured on him. Here's the write up he did for TSN.

https://www.tsn.ca/timothy-liljegren-defence-1.742574

People shouldn't kid themselves, Button does favors for people (or relies on pro-teams info) he like to make people look good to the public or owner. He always overly ranked Coyotes due to his relationship with Tim Bernhardt who got ousted this summer in favor of our old golf cart buddy. It is funny how Liljegren and (and none of Marks Picks) no London Knights are on the list. I'm not gonna dig too deep into it as a conspiracy theory, but maybe Mark pissed into Craig's coffee or something.

For whatever reason, it feels like Craig has undervalued Leafs players outside of Sandin and later Nylander in these rankings. Here is what he did in 2015, he had Willy at 16 (not terrible but too low) and had Domi one (shock a Coyotes prospect, also had Dvorak top 10), and the next year while he had Willy at 1, he put Marner behind Strome, Dvorak, Connor and Provorov (shocking two Coyotes prospect).

2015
https://www.tsn.ca/tsn-hockey-s-top-30-nhl-affiliated-prospects-1.183391

2016
https://www.tsn.ca/tsn-hockey-s-top-30-nhl-affiliated-prospects-1.183391