Markstrom requests a trade (or not)

[bo2shink*]

a goalie graveyard is where you acquire goalies, either don't put them in positions to succeed or explicitly put them in positions to fail, then either chuck them away or watch them leave town for nothing.

(no, i don't think we're talking about the past here)

a) this doesn't sound like a graveyard;
b) not sure how this equates to Vancouver.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I laugh when people put the goalie mess blame squarely on the goalie. I mean, its not as if the owner of the team showed up at Luongos Floridian door to beg him to stay, followed by a puzzling non-buy out.

The Luongo debacle has ownership's fingerprints all over it.

 

[LolClarkson*]

Pretty sure this future all star will get grabbed.

Yeah. But the hope would be that the team who picks him up will try and send him down to their farm. At that point we can reclaim him and then he can get sent down without having to clear.

But hey, lets stack the farm with a 7th round pick.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

a) this doesn't sound like a graveyard;
b) not sure how this equates to Vancouver.

use your imagination

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

a goalie graveyard is where you acquire goalies, either don't put them in positions to succeed or explicitly put them in positions to fail, then either chuck them away or watch them leave town for nothing.

(no, i don't think we're talking about the past here)

As has been posted before, the Canucks have probably had more goaltender stability than most if not all other teams in the NHL. Luongo was the undisputed #1 goaltender here for six seasons. Prior to him there was one year of turmoil and then you have Dan Cloutier, who was the undisputed #1 goaltender for three seasons. Now we're back to the Burke era, where this "goalie graveyard" ********* started because he couldn't find a goalie. Prior to that era you have Kirk McLean, who was the undisputed #1 goaltender here forever.

Things change, players get old and you replace them. That's how it works. Nobody calls us a "defense graveyard" just because Ohlund or Salo or Ehrhoff or Ballard aren't here anymore. It's preposterous.

 

[bo2shink*]

Yeah. But the hope would be that the team who picks him up will try and send him down to their farm. At that point we can reclaim him and then he can get sent down without having to clear.

But hey, lets stack the farm with a 7th round pick.

That's lots of hoping. First we hope he clears. Then when he doesn't, we hope the team that claims him tries to send him down. All this with the hope that he can actually stop an NHL puck.

 

[bo2shink*]

use your imagination

I can't imagine something so ridiculous. My question was sort of rhetorical. I've heard several people try and give an example of what it actually means but with little success. As bad as our media is here, they sure can make people think less when it suits them.

 

[NFITO]

I put absolutely ZERO stock in a garbage team waiving anyone.

yet you put stock in that same garbage team's draft pick and development abilities?

Maybe Markstrom is simply not very good. Was an overrated draft pick that was ruined by said garbage team's development program?

Grabner deserved to get waived by Florida that year... he absolutely stunk it up in preseason and the Panthers had to either waive him or risk losing a player that outplayed him in camp and actually earned a spot.

Markstrom has a very good chance of passing through waivers. He is not a capable backup at this point, and has a $1.2mill cap hit (and a $1.4mill salary), which counts against the cap even if he's in the minors. So what team is going to risk picking him up at that price tag, considering his lack of development to date?

 

[bo2shink*]

Things change, players get old and you replace them. That's how it works. Nobody calls us a "defense graveyard" just because Ohlund or Salo or Ehrhoff or Ballard aren't here anymore. It's preposterous.

Resists urge to make awful defenceman joke....

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

yet you put stock in that same garbage team's draft pick and development abilities?

Maybe Markstrom is simply not very good. Was an overrated draft pick that was ruined by said garbage team's development program?

Grabner deserved to get waived by Florida that year... he absolutely stunk it up in preseason and the Panthers had to either waive him or risk losing a player that outplayed him in camp and actually earned a spot.

Markstrom has a very good chance of passing through waivers. He is not a capable backup at this point, and has a $1.2mill cap hit (and a $1.4mill salary), which counts against the cap even if he's in the minors. So what team is going to risk picking him up at that price tag, considering his lack of development to date?

And even still, it happens. It happens to every team, and you just have to deal with it. You can't cling to every "propect" or "project" because you're afraid they'll work out somewhere else. The Sharks gave away Miikka Kiprusoff because they had Vesa Toskala and Evgeni Nabokov. Oh well, that's how it goes. The Leafs gave away Tuukka Rask because they had Justin Pogge (lol.) If we wanted to give Markstrom a shot, we shouldn't have signed Miller, but we did and now there's no room for a guy carrying a 1.2M cap hit whom the organization had zero faith in even as a backup last year.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

As has been posted before, the Canucks have probably had more goaltender stability than most if not all other teams in the NHL. Luongo was the undisputed #1 goaltender here for six seasons. Prior to him there was one year of turmoil and then you have Dan Cloutier, who was the undisputed #1 goaltender for three seasons. Now we're back to the Burke era, where this "goalie graveyard" ********* started because he couldn't find a goalie. Prior to that era you have Kirk McLean, who was the undisputed #1 goaltender here forever.

Things change, players get old and you replace them. That's how it works. Nobody calls us a "defense graveyard" just because Ohlund or Salo or Ehrhoff or Ballard aren't here anymore. It's preposterous.

I can't believe someone just tried to argue the Dan Cloutier years didn't have "turmoil". Unbelievable- guy could have been one of the most polarizing canucks ever... Alex ****ing Auld was looking like a better option for a while oh man

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

I can't believe someone just tried to argue the Dan Cloutier years didn't have "turmoil". Unbelievable- guy could have been one of the most polarizing canucks ever... Alex ****ing Auld was looking like a better option for a while oh man

What does this have to do with anything? He was our starter. For four years we began the season knowing that he was going to be starting the majority of our games. He was not buried or "put in a position to fail." Whether or not you liked him is irrelevant; he was unquestionably our starting goaltender until he got injured and we acquired Luongo.

Anyway, this is a Markstrom thread. The point is that we are not a "goalie graveyard," and giving away a busted prospect who has accomplished squat at the NHL level is not a continuation of this theme which doesn't exist.

 

[biturbo19]

yet you put stock in that same garbage team's draft pick and development abilities?

Maybe Markstrom is simply not very good. Was an overrated draft pick that was ruined by said garbage team's development program?

Grabner deserved to get waived by Florida that year... he absolutely stunk it up in preseason and the Panthers had to either waive him or risk losing a player that outplayed him in camp and actually earned a spot.

Markstrom has a very good chance of passing through waivers. He is not a capable backup at this point, and has a $1.2mill cap hit (and a $1.4mill salary), which counts against the cap even if he's in the minors. So what team is going to risk picking him up at that price tag, considering his lack of development to date?

The thing about all of the "hype" that once surrounded Markstrom as a prospect, is that it was by and large based around his size and physical tools. He's looking more and more like the prototypical "toolsy" project type. His struggles are mental focus, toughness, etc. How often do we really see these sort of things "taught" to goaltenders at that sort of age? And i wouldn't even blame it on Florida's "terrible horrible no good development system", as it's stuff that Markstrom has shown hints of dating back to his time in Sweden, WJCs, etc. from what i recall.

Maybe one day really really does "get it" and it all clicks for him and he puts those tremendous "tools" to great use. But it's a tough row to hoe. I'd be happy to have Markstrom on the farm continuing to work on it, but if we deal him for something minor, or he ends up claimed...it really wouldn't be the end of the world for me. You hate to lose assets for free, just as i didn't like not even qualifying Dalpe or Schroeder despite neither really showing signs up blossoming into good NHL calibre players that fit this team...but sometimes you lose assets for free...just like sometimes you pick up assets for free. It's like prospect karma or something, and i wouldn't fret too much about losing a prospect who has been trending in basically the wrong direction of late.

 

[MS]

As has been posted before, the Canucks have probably had more goaltender stability than most if not all other teams in the NHL. Luongo was the undisputed #1 goaltender here for six seasons. Prior to him there was one year of turmoil and then you have Dan Cloutier, who was the undisputed #1 goaltender for three seasons. Now we're back to the Burke era, where this "goalie graveyard" ********* started because he couldn't find a goalie. Prior to that era you have Kirk McLean, who was the undisputed #1 goaltender here forever.

Things change, players get old and you replace them. That's how it works. Nobody calls us a "defense graveyard" just because Ohlund or Salo or Ehrhoff or Ballard aren't here anymore. It's preposterous.

Thank you. Few things piss me off more than this 'goalie graveyard' nonsense.

From Richard Brodeur in 1980 until the Luongo/Schneider thing in 2013, we basically had 4 starting goalies in 33 years, excluding two years of turmoil from 1998-2000.

This franchise has had more goaltending stability than almost any franchise in the NHL, and if anything is a goalie paradise where mediocre goalies have become cult heroes and average goalies have been kept as starters long after their skills have fallen off.

'Goalie Graveyard' was nothing but a catchy phrase from Burke when he actually had the nerve to blame his horrible track record with goalie evaluation on the fans. And it's unbelievable that the media actually ran with it and it stuck.

 

[JuniorNelson]

Canucks are doing housework. This is a good trend. I hope it continues.

I know the report has the player initiating this but the old regime would've mishandled it.

 

[Wilch]

The Canucks aren't a goalie graveyard.

They just have poor asset management.

 

[DoubleTrouble]

Florida **** Markstrom up by rushing him into the NHL...

Now he can not play in the AHL without clearing waivers...


He needs to be playing a lot in the AHL..

He is not ready for the NHL

 

[PG Canuck]

Would've liked to see how he'd develop under Rollie, but it is what it is I guess. I'm not expecting much of a return since he's proven nothing and has fallen off, but if we could swap reclamation prospect projects with another team I'd be happy.

 

[Wilch]

Trade Lack before the season starts, run with Miller-Markstrom.

Trade Miller before the deadline, run with Markstrom and tank.

Draft in the top 5.

Give Schneider a 8 year, 7.5m deal.

BOOM.

And then after Joakim Ericsson starts panning out...

Schneider for another top 10 pick

 

[BassMason]

Trade Lack before the season starts, run with Miller-Markstrom.

Trade Miller before the deadline, run with Markstrom and tank.

Draft in the top 5.

Give Schneider a 8 year, 7.5m deal.

BOOM.

And then after Joakim Ericsson starts panning out...

Schneider for another top 10 pick

It's so crazy it might just work.

 

[Gormo]

hey guys remember when we got luongo and the local headlines were all "goalie graveyard is closed, britches"?

we managed to run luongo, and his future all-star heir apparent, out of town. we did it guys. high fives.

I always believed we could do it if we really put our minds to it.

 

[RandV]

<---- #1 Cloutier fan

I can't believe someone just tried to argue the Dan Cloutier years didn't have "turmoil". Unbelievable- guy could have been one of the most polarizing canucks ever... Alex ****ing Auld was looking like a better option for a while oh man

Honestly the Dan Cloutier bashing gets overblown. Fans tend to have this bipolar tendency to love a guy one season but the moment he slips up completely turn on them. See: Jannik Hansen, aka the loveable Honey Badger who you would have to overpay to get a year ago, and today you trade his ass for whatever draft pick and let a kid take his spot. Alex Burrows works just as well for an example.

Following a number of bad years post-Kirk McLean, Cloutier was the first guy we had that brought some stability to the position. A guy that was a decent through the regular season but struggled in the playoffs. Though for the latter it was looking like he may have turned that around early in the '04 playoffs, but a fluke injury tripping on a bad bit of ice in Calgary and injuring his angle put Auld in net who was sub par. Only reason Auld was the starter post-lockout is because Cloutier was injured all year, Auld was basically our Devan Dubynk.

I always saw Dan Cloutier as a Chris Osgood caliber goalie, except didn't play for Detroit and injuries ruined any chance for longevity. Not the best, but he was okay holding the fort until between McLean and Luongo. One of the reasons who got ripped on so hard around the league because at the time the 'model' to winning the cup was to have a top 5 goalie. Ironically the moment we got Luongo the mindset changed and it was all about having a good cheap goalie so you can spend more cap space on the skaters

 

[LolClarkson*]

That's lots of hoping. First we hope he clears. Then when he doesn't, we hope the team that claims him tries to send him down. All this with the hope that he can actually stop an NHL puck.

Teams want to acquire him for the same reason we want to keep him. His draft pedigree. Nothing much else. He's a project and projects need to go to the farm. It is doubtful that some team will try and revive this guy in the NHL.

Now that I think of it, its a no brainer. We are the only team that will be capable of getting him to our farm.

 

[LolClarkson*]

Florida **** Markstrom up by rushing him into the NHL...

Now he can not play in the AHL without clearing waivers...


He needs to be playing a lot in the AHL..

He is not ready for the NHL

But if the Canucks pick him up again, after the team that picks him waives him, he doesn't need to clear again.

 

[Diamonddog01]

I hope we move him for a 2015 3rd round pick, and then trade that to Anaheim to get our 2015 3rd round pick back.

That's really the ideal scenario in a Markstrom trade. Never wanted this guy, never though he would amount to anything in the NHL and will be happy to see him gone.