Markstrom requests a trade (or not)

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Nucker42

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Nov 27, 2011
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I just can't see Benning and Linden doing that. They have not admitted to rebuilding. We are suppose to be a playoff team this year... With us spending to the cap we sure as hell should be.

Maybe we can get a 2015 2nd rounder for Markstrom... Similar to what Calgary gave up to San Jose when they traded for Mikkaa Kiprusoff. I don't know what teams need goalies though.. Winnipeg?

2nd rounder? I hate to burst the Canucks bubble but MArkstrom does not have that kind of value. Canucks might get a 4th rounder back if they are lucky.

Canucks have no leverage remember, teams know Canucks will have to waive him and can be had for free.
 

Jimson Hogarth*

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Nov 21, 2013
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2nd rounder? I hate to burst the Canucks bubble but MArkstrom does not have that kind of value. Canucks might get a 4th rounder back if they are lucky.

Canucks have no leverage remember, teams know Canucks will have to waive him and can be had for free.

Yes, the only way the Canucks can pull off a trade here, imo is if teams at the top feel like the bottom teams will claim him before they get the chance. I think in the end we should be looking for a similar reclamation project prospect. Don't know who that is, perhaps Scott Glennie?
 

deckercky

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Oct 27, 2010
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issue isn't the minors, issue is the two goalies in the minors who the Canucks already have. There is no space for him right meow. Eriksson and Canatta are both younger and cheaper.

He will get traded for a conditional pick, maybe a 5th that turns into a 4th if he plays 10 games or something like that.

*snicker*

There's 4 significant goalie spots in the minors. Lots of very good goalies spend some time in the ECHL. ECHL starter is actually better developmentally than AHL backup IMO, since it gives the goalie minutes.

The other option is to loan him to another league in Europe.

I don't think Markstrom has any real value in a trade though. I doubt if he'd get picked up on waivers, let alone getting a return.
 

NFITO

hockeyinsanity*****
Jun 19, 2002
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But we may lose Markstrom for nothing. :cry::shakehead

I've been peddling this trade and I'd like some feedback.

:nucks
Niemi

:sharks
Miller

Keep the Lack/Marks duo after Niemi's contract runs out

The Canucks JUST signed Miller. They are not going to trade him this soon. At the earliest you may see him get moved next year, if he's not happy after his first year here and wants out, and then gives the team a limited number of teams he'd move to. But to even consider trading a guy that you just signed 5 days ago it just ridiculous.

And even in a hypothetical world were teams sign FA and then trade them right away (and really what FA is going to want to sign with a gong show of a team that does that), even if this was possible though, it does nothing to change the Markstrom situation. He'd still be #3 behind Niemi and Lack, and still need to clear waivers as the Canucks aren't going to carry 3 goalies through a season.

Markstom was a throw away asset when he was acquired and he remains such today. The Luongo trade wasn't about the return, it was about getting rid of a horrendous contract and moving a guy that didn't want to be here. The value of the return needs to consider that - just like the low returns we've seen for so many other assets around the league that have been moved because of contracts and/or trade demands. Considering that we got a solid return for Luongo - a top-9 forward and not having to carry that contract for the next several years for an aging player that didn't even want to be here.
 

Jimson Hogarth*

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Nov 21, 2013
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Markstom was a throw away asset when he was acquired and he remains such today. The Luongo trade wasn't about the return, it was about getting rid of a horrendous contract and moving a guy that didn't want to be here. The value of the return needs to consider that - just like the low returns we've seen for so many other assets around the league that have been moved because of contracts and/or trade demands. Considering that we got a solid return for Luongo - a top-9 forward and not having to carry that contract for the next several years for an aging player that didn't even want to be here.

There's been too much of this kind of trading, getting rid of assets for the sake of it, in the past couple years imo. Not the way to transition a team with Finals pedigree.
 

John Bender*

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Funny, I seem to recall people saying that was a great trade for us.

Just remember, I was calling that a horrendous trade before calling it a horrendous trade was cool.

Why is it important that any of us remember this?
 

mrmyheadhurts

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Mar 22, 2007
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I still have my doubts anyone would claim Markstrom on waivers. What team figures he's ready to be an NHL level goalie at this point?
 

John Bender*

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2nd rounder? I hate to burst the Canucks bubble but MArkstrom does not have that kind of value. Canucks might get a 4th rounder back if they are lucky.

Canucks have no leverage remember, teams know Canucks will have to waive him and can be had for free.

He won't clear waivers though, so if a team wants him they may trade for him to prevent another team from claiming him.
 

biturbo19

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Jul 13, 2010
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The Canucks JUST signed Miller. They are not going to trade him this soon. At the earliest you may see him get moved next year, if he's not happy after his first year here and wants out, and then gives the team a limited number of teams he'd move to. But to even consider trading a guy that you just signed 5 days ago it just ridiculous.

And even in a hypothetical world were teams sign FA and then trade them right away (and really what FA is going to want to sign with a gong show of a team that does that), even if this was possible though, it does nothing to change the Markstrom situation. He'd still be #3 behind Niemi and Lack, and still need to clear waivers as the Canucks aren't going to carry 3 goalies through a season.

Markstom was a throw away asset when he was acquired and he remains such today. The Luongo trade wasn't about the return, it was about getting rid of a horrendous contract and moving a guy that didn't want to be here. The value of the return needs to consider that - just like the low returns we've seen for so many other assets around the league that have been moved because of contracts and/or trade demands. Considering that we got a solid return for Luongo - a top-9 forward and not having to carry that contract for the next several years for an aging player that didn't even want to be here.

:laugh:

Yeah. We're not trading our "star free agent" acquisition before he plays a game for the Canucks, or even at the deadline. Plus, the proposed deal there doesn't solve this 3-goalie situation in the slightest anyway.
 

Jimson Hogarth*

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Nov 21, 2013
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I still have my doubts anyone would claim Markstrom on waivers. What team figures he's ready to be an NHL level goalie at this point?

There are some teams with starters that can play 60+ games. If thats the case, that team could develop Markstrom with under 20 NHL games, which would be good for him. If I were Florida I'd claim him back on wavers, knowing Luongo is a good mentor with back-ups.
 

biturbo19

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Jul 13, 2010
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2nd rounder? I hate to burst the Canucks bubble but MArkstrom does not have that kind of value. Canucks might get a 4th rounder back if they are lucky.

Canucks have no leverage remember, teams know Canucks will have to waive him and can be had for free.

Yeah, we're not going to get much of anything for Markstrom if he is traded.

The one factor that could contribute to Markstrom having at least some minimal value in trade though, is if there's another team out there who wants to acquire Markstrom, but still stick him in the minors to continue developing. Ie. they have interest in Markstrom but aren't ready to trust him with their backup job in the NHL just yet. In that case, i could see a team trading something small for him, as being the original owner would give them a pretty decent chance of slipping him down to the AHL on waivers...as opposed to just "claiming" him when the Canucks waive him, where they'd have to leave him on the NHL roster.
 
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biturbo19

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Jul 13, 2010
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There are some teams with starters that can play 60+ games. If thats the case, that team could develop Markstrom with under 20 NHL games, which would be good for him. If I were Florida I'd claim him back on wavers, knowing Luongo is a good mentor with back-ups.

I'm not sure if playing 20 games this year really would be the greatest thing for Markstrom's development at this point. With the sort of issues he has, i'd be inclined to think that playing a TON of games would probably be the most productive way for him to work out some of the major issues in his game in the mental side, focus, etc.

In any case though, Florida management made it pretty clear how they felt about Markstrom when they made that Luongo deal. Tallon and Co. clearly don't feel that Markstrom is a future starter, that's why he was included in the deal. They moved on from him...seriously doubt they'd have much of any reason to want him back, nor would Markstrom likely be all too thrilled to be going back to that organization after the strong vote of non-confidence they gave him. Plus the other money they have tied up in backup goaltenders with Montoya and Ellis already.
 

alternate

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Funny, I seem to recall people saying that was a great trade for us.

Just remember, I was calling that a horrendous trade before calling it a horrendous trade was cool.

Yeah, you've been pretty much bang on on everything over this whole saga. You nailed Luongo's value from day 1, give or take. :sarcasm:

So what do you put Markstrom's value at? Maybe to EDM for Yakupov, rights to Schultz and a 2015 1st?
 

NFITO

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There's been too much of this kind of trading, getting rid of assets for the sake of it, in the past couple years imo. Not the way to transition a team with Finals pedigree.

the problem isn't moving an asset in that kind of situation. The problem is having an environment where players don't want to be there.

You need to get rid of assets for the sake of it if that asset doesn't want to be part of the organization. You don't just keep them and have them hurt the overall team chemistry and locker room.

That was the problem with both Luongo and Kesler. Neither player wanted to be here and it just hurt the team overall keeping such assets around when they wanted out.

I like the fact that Benning didn't fall into that same trap that Gillis did. Wait it out to get the best possible deal, and in the meantime see the team's chemistry just fall apart. If a player doesn't want to be here - like Luongo indicated two years before he was moved - then move his ass out, and get whatever return you can. Even a marginal or nothing return helps the team because you've subtracted a negative influence from the team.

Luongo should have been traded when he first requested it. If he had been - regardless of the return, we'd still have Schneider around. Hell you could have waived him 2 years ago and let some other team deal with it, and then kept a quality young starter for many years moving forward in Schneider. And who knows maybe the team would be playing much better and Kesler wouldn't want out still being part of a team that was contending. But letting the situation fester for so long just hurt the organization.

Personally, I'd rather have nothing in return for Luongo and Schneider still here, then the mess we've had to go through since.
 

Guardian452

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Jun 10, 2011
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*snicker*

There's 4 significant goalie spots in the minors. Lots of very good goalies spend some time in the ECHL. ECHL starter is actually better developmentally than AHL backup IMO, since it gives the goalie minutes.

The other option is to loan him to another league in Europe.

I don't think Markstrom has any real value in a trade though. I doubt if he'd get picked up on waivers, let alone getting a return.

Cannata and Markstrom can't be loaned to the ECHL. Only players on ELC's can be loaned to an ECHL team. Ericksson is establishing himself as an AHL starter and likely needs 1 more year of AHL experience to be NHL ready. Sending him to the ECHL or loaning Markstrom or Eriksson to a European team would be a step backwards. Pretty much the Canucks only option is to trade Markstrom to a team looking for a #2. I'm positive that Markstrom's trade request, if true, comes to no surprise to anyone. It's a matter of Benning getting the best deal he can for Markstrom.
 

Jimson Hogarth*

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Nov 21, 2013
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Personally, I'd rather have nothing in return for Luongo and Schneider still here, then the mess we've had to go through since.
Sorry to snip down your posts, I appreciate the detail, just wanted to focus in on the only point I may differ on: I take a top 10 pick in a decent draft any day for a goalie that isn't Patrick Roy, Dom Hasek, etc.
 

LolClarkson*

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The Canucks JUST signed Miller. They are not going to trade him this soon. At the earliest you may see him get moved next year, if he's not happy after his first year here and wants out, and then gives the team a limited number of teams he'd move to. But to even consider trading a guy that you just signed 5 days ago it just ridiculous.

And even in a hypothetical world were teams sign FA and then trade them right away (and really what FA is going to want to sign with a gong show of a team that does that), even if this was possible though, it does nothing to change the Markstrom situation. He'd still be #3 behind Niemi and Lack, and still need to clear waivers as the Canucks aren't going to carry 3 goalies through a season.

Markstom was a throw away asset when he was acquired and he remains such today. The Luongo trade wasn't about the return, it was about getting rid of a horrendous contract and moving a guy that didn't want to be here. The value of the return needs to consider that - just like the low returns we've seen for so many other assets around the league that have been moved because of contracts and/or trade demands. Considering that we got a solid return for Luongo - a top-9 forward and not having to carry that contract for the next several years for an aging player that didn't even want to be here.

We just signed Marco Sturm before dumping him too.

Between our surplus and the Sharks lack of goaltenders, we should be able to make a deal. Miller wants to play in Cali.

And it's a good thing Piarre McGuire didn't get the pens job because he would scoop him on waivers any chance he got. He called the Markstrom throw in, grand larceny
 

Guardian452

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Jun 10, 2011
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What team would carry him on their roster at this point?

There are a few teams that are thin in goal and have no prospects that are NHL ready. Philadelphia & Islanders are 2 teams that lack goaltending depth and could use an upgrade in the #2 spot.
 

LolClarkson*

Guest
:laugh:

Yeah. We're not trading our "star free agent" acquisition before he plays a game for the Canucks, or even at the deadline. Plus, the proposed deal there doesn't solve this 3-goalie situation in the slightest anyway.

It does because Niemi has one year left. Then you just keep 3 goalies for this one year
 

NFITO

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Sorry to snip down your posts, I appreciate the detail, just wanted to focus in on the only point I may differ on: I take a top 10 pick in a decent draft any day for a goalie that isn't Patrick Roy, Dom Hasek, etc.

I realize this is HF boards and ever since I started posting here people have put more value on draft picks then on actual players, but the objective of this game is to win Cups, not accumulate draft picks. And you aren't gauranteed anything by picking up top-10 picks if you can't build a good team around them.

Having a starter like Schneider here for the next 10+ years outweighs the impact of the average top-10 pick. Sure you can get lucky and pick up a superstar (how many superstars have been drafted outside the top-5 in recent years?), but the chances are that you'll get a decent young player who may provide an impact several years down the road at the expense of a top goalie you can win you games on his own. Schneider has proven that he can, and would have been a huge asset to build this team around for years to come.

Just take a look at the draft over the years and see what players have gone around the 10th spot.... how many of them would you trade Schneider for? In the 05 draft you had Kopitar go 11th overall... in the very deep 03 draft you had Suter go 7th overall.... that's pretty much it as far as top level impact players taken around 10th go. And that's going as far back as 2000, you can find a couple top level impact players in that range. Schneider is a top level impact player in a position that is so hard to fill as it is. Maybe people here have forgotten how difficult it has been for this franchise to find a top end starter with Luongo and Schneider here over the years - but think back to how things were in the 10+ years we went from having McLean at the top of his game to finally acquiring Luongo - and how much of an impact that had on this franchise.

I'd rather have Schneider and Lack in net right now then having to spend $6mill/yr on Miller and getting Horvat in return. It's not even close IMO. Schneider just provides so much more value.
 
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