Markstrom requests a trade (or not)

[Shareefruck]

I see it like a buyer's real estate market (or any market); people with property should only sell if they have to.That's a big reason why Gillis is unemployed right now. He put the team in a situation where they had to sell.

So... you're.. saying that trading Schneider for the 9th was not a good move, but is good return if you have to do it?

I would agree with that. But I still think it's a bad trade. You take the half-season of sour grapes between Schneider and Luongo if it means avoiding a situation where you trade both of them, IMO.

Schneider should have never been on the block in the first place.

 

[salsa man]

I imagine his value is off the charts, he was the centre piece in the Luongo deal.

A 1st in 2015 and a top prospect?

That's ridiculous. He's never had success at the NHL level, why would he be worth more than Schneider and Luongo?

You'll be lucky to get a 2nd round pick.

 

[Fat Tony]

It was the best we could have expected for him. I'd rather had kept him, though. Moreso now that Luongo got traded also.

 

[The Stig]

Mainly because we are a rich team that can afford to hang on to prospects until they are a bonafide bust. Some will argue that he's close to that but hes not close enough.

Remember how Grabner was a bust ? I don't want to see Markstrom in an allstar game in 5 years. So lets hang on to this asset until its not an asset at all.

But we already HAVE a young asset in that position. Lack. Markstrom will just become more of a bust and lose value by sitting in the press box. It's an awful move. Just get something for him while we can before we ruin him any farther and get absolutely nothing in return.

 

[nameless1]

Ahh...
Mika Noronen...
I missed you.

 

[vancityluongo]

Meh. Waive him and move on. If a market opens up for him, then get a 5th round pick back.

Don't think goalie depth beyond Lack/Miller really matters. Worst case if one of them goes down long term, throw a 7th round pick for a Devan Dubnyk type or sign someone like Vokoun who might end up kicking tires in the AHL while waiting for a contract.

 

[Free Edler]

It's possible that Markstrom just kinda isn't that good and it's OK if we accept that. He was a very highly rated prospect for years but sometimes things don't work out.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

After Lack became the #1 guy last year when Luongo left, Lack proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was NOT ready.

NOT ready for what? Getting ridden into the ground playing more often than any other goalie in the NHL? Not ready to regularly play both games of back-to-backs and 3 games in 4 nights? He is perfectly capable of being a starting goaltender with normal use, IMO.

 

[Free Edler]

NOT ready for what? Getting ridden into the ground playing more often than any other goalie in the NHL? Not ready to regularly play both games of back-to-backs and 3 games in 4 nights? He is perfectly capable of being a starting goaltender with normal use, IMO.

Agreed. Considering the awful situation he was dropped into with a coach who was mailing it in, Eddie Lack did better than we realistically could have hoped for as a starting goalie last year.

 

[MS]

Luongo should've been waived and then bought out if he cleared. When teams like Tampa and Buffalo have no problem spending millions over the next 15-20 years to avoid cap recapture then the Canucks shouldn't have either.

Yup. None of this whole mess would have happened if we'd just bought out Luongo on the eve of the 2013 draft. Stupid cheap owner.

People were actually advocating trading Lack instead after the Miller signing, as if Markstrom made him redundant.

Pretty ridiciulous. He was a bust when he got here and we were all optimistic that our goalie coach might turn his game around, but he hasn't improved a single step since being considered a bust, really.

I would be very surprised if we could get anything for Markstrom, personally

I'm advocating trading Lack because he actually has trade value and Markstrom has none, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to carry a valuable asset as a 20-game backup.

I'm a huge Lack fan, think he should have been the starter here last year, think he's loads better than Markstrom, and it would kill me to move him ... but it makes little sense to bury him as the backup for two years and lose him for nothing as an UFA.

It's possible that Markstrom just kinda isn't that good and it's OK if we accept that. He was a very highly rated prospect for years but sometimes things don't work out.

Yeah, this 'highest-rated prospect in hockey' thing is so overblown - he was highly rated at one point in 2011, but that ship had long sailed by the time we picked him up.

 

[Lundface*]

So... you're.. saying that trading Schneider for the 9th was not a good move, but is good return if you have to do it?

I would agree with that. But I still think it's a bad trade. You take the half-season of sour grapes between Schneider and Luongo if it means avoiding a situation where you trade both of them, IMO.

Schneider should have never been on the block in the first place.

This opinion is thrown around sometimes but it makes no sense.

Luongo asked to be traded. Before that point the plan was always to trade Schneider whether management wanted to or not, Luongo was signed forever.Best time would have been after the playoffs but Luongo had to open his mouth to the media about a trade demand days after it ended.

In 2012 we had Schneider who just outplayed Luongo in the season and going into the playoffs ...Were you pretending he could have been traded midway through 2011-2012 being an impending RFA in the summer?

Luongo effed this organization over hard. Gave him everything and he **** all over the organization.

 

[bo2shink*]

Kinda sad to think in just over a year we traded 2 legit #1 goalies and one of the highest ranks goalie prospect. Gillis really made a big mess out of things.

And yet still have a legit #1 with a way better contract, Bo Horvat and no more drama.

 

[bo2shink*]

Mainly because we are a rich team that can afford to hang on to prospects until they are a bonafide bust. Some will argue that he's close to that but hes not close enough.

Remember how Grabner was a bust ? I don't want to see Markstrom in an allstar game in 5 years. So lets hang on to this asset until its not an asset at all.

Thing is, you can't "just hang on". Grabner was either getting traded or sent to the minors and picked up on waivers. There was no room for him here and he acknowledged how awful he was in preseason. He DID NOT MAKE the Florida Panthers roster. He's regressed every year since his big one, which was A LONG TIME ago.

Lol, "allstar".

 

[Bps21*]

Maybe better to wait and see if he can get that save percentage above the .900 mark. 50 games isn't a huge sample...but it's also not the smallest.

 

[Shareefruck]

This opinion is thrown around sometimes but it makes no sense.

Luongo asked to be traded. Before that point the plan was always to trade Schneider whether management wanted to or not, Luongo was signed forever.Best time would have been after the playoffs but Luongo had to open his mouth to the media about a trade demand days after it ended.

In 2012 we had Schneider who just outplayed Luongo in the season and going into the playoffs ...Were you pretending he could have been traded midway through 2011-2012 being an impending RFA in the summer?

Luongo effed this organization over hard. Gave him everything and he **** all over the organization.

I don't follow your line of reasoning or your questioning. Could you clarify that? Before Luongo was considered tradeable and Schneider had not yet outplayed him, Schneider should not have been on the block, IMO. When Luongo and Schneider were both playing well/Schneider outplayed him and Luongo wanted out, Schneider should not have been on the block, IMO. When Luongo was limiting his choices and looked like he had minimal/no value, Schneider should not have been on the block, IMO. Even if you're in a situation that you would have to swallow both of them on your team for a while before Luongo could get traded, I would prefer that they live with that rather than put Schneider on the block.

Even in the hypothetical case where Luongo has negative value and you would need to take back salary to get rid of him, Schneider should not have been on the block.

I agree with you that Luongo put the team in a horrible situation, but I'm not sure how what you're saying affects what I'm saying. Even in the worst situation, you shouldn't trade Schneider for a 9th overall pick when there's no more ideal option in goal.

 

[LolClarkson*]

Thing is, you can't "just hang on". Grabner was either getting traded or sent to the minors and picked up on waivers. There was no room for him here and he acknowledged how awful he was in preseason. He DID NOT MAKE the Florida Panthers roster. He's regressed every year since his big one, which was A LONG TIME ago.

Lol, "allstar".

I put absolutely ZERO stock in a garbage team waiving anyone.

 

[adam graves]

Im sorry to hear this. Im a big fan of Jacob and blame the panthers for last year having him spend the whole season in the AHL without a goalie coach. He needs a year of good AHL development.

Do completely get no room at the inn here.

 

[bo2shink*]

I put absolutely ZERO stock in a garbage team waiving anyone.

Of course not, that would ruin the fantasy. I bet you put lots of stock in a player making the ASG on a garbage team that picked him up.

He couldn't make the Canucks roster. He couldn't make FLA. To make it clear, we could not "just hang on" to him. It doesn't work that way. Just like we can't just hang on to Markstrom hoping he learns how to stop a puck in the NHL. There are roster limits. There is a salary cap. There is a # of contracts limit. There are waivers. There is the want to play.

But sure, let's pretend maybe he will be an all star. Maybe Miller will be. Or Lack. Or Ericsson. Cannata? Demko.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

hey guys remember when we got luongo and the local headlines were all "goalie graveyard is closed, britches"?

we managed to run luongo, and his future all-star heir apparent, out of town. we did it guys. high fives.

 

[Taelin]

This a Markstrom thread. If you want to dig up the nostalgia, use the Ex-Canucks thread.

 

[bo2shink*]

hey guys remember when we got luongo and the local headlines were all "goalie graveyard is closed, britches"?

we managed to run luongo, and his future all-star heir apparent, out of town. we did it guys. high fives.

Can someone explain the concept of goalie graveyard?

 

[LolClarkson*]

Im sorry to hear this. Im a big fan of Jacob and blame the panthers for last year having him spend the whole season in the AHL without a goalie coach. He needs a year of good AHL development.

Do completely get no room at the inn here.

What is so great about Cattana ? I don't know why they didn't just let him walk and hope to get Marks down

 

[bo2shink*]

What is so great about Cattana ? I don't know why they didn't just let him walk and hope to get Marks down

Pretty sure this future all star will get grabbed.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Can someone explain the concept of goalie graveyard?

a goalie graveyard is where you acquire goalies, either don't put them in positions to succeed or explicitly put them in positions to fail, then either chuck them away or watch them leave town for nothing.

(no, i don't think we're talking about the past here)

 

[Horse McHindu]

hey guys remember when we got luongo and the local headlines were all "goalie graveyard is closed, britches"?

we managed to run luongo, and his future all-star heir apparent, out of town. we did it guys. high fives.

Given the way the 2011 season ended, along with the emergence of Schneider in 2012, Luongo should have been moved half way through the 2012 season........and more specifically, after that revenge victory over Boston. It was at that point where the team became Schneider's, and it became increasingly apparent that the team was playing more comfortably and looked like a different team in front of Schneider.

If Gillis has any common sense whatsoever, or was in fine tune with reality, he would have recognized that Luongo's value wasn't terribly high given the way the 2011 playoffs ended, and given Luongo's contract. An intelligent GM (or even a mediocre one) would have traded Luongo for either an equally bad contract that would have helped with another need (I.e. Lecavlier at center, or Phaneuf on defense), or would have simply moved Luongo for draft picks to clear cap space while also getting some food for the farm.

Schneider wasn't run out of town, but given the spectactular mishandling of the Luongo situation, combined with the obvious truth that the Canucks were no longer an elite team after the San Jose sweep, it became obvious that we were in dire need of quality prospects. Hence - Gillis' move for Horvat.

Schneider for Horvat actually was a good move for the Canucks when you consider the circumstance, but the circumstance was created as a direct result of Gillis' incompetence and utter failure as a GM after the 2011 defeat.