Marc Bergevin: Redemption Song Part 19

[BaseballCoach]

Why does it even matter?

To justify the incorrect evaluations made. And it's tiring for the rest of us who are willing to say we overlooked some things.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Over 9 years you are going to blow a few trades and signings. Serge being the worst trade frankly isn’t that bad. Serge has played 300 games now, he isn’t exactly pacing for Norris trophies. Tampa clearly won the trade but it will be very interesting to see how he plays this series.

MB’s pro scouting has been top notch, drafting and development he has failed save for the last few years. Finally hit on some prospects but solid vets is a good combo.

The years of 18-22 are basically years not expected for a Dman to perform at all in the NHL. It is at or after 22 they break out offensively and start commanding contracts. This 22 years of age outburst is historically replicable and thus as an asset, defensemen behave like a predictable stock. The Tampa blueline was hurting bad sans Hedman at the time of the trade and Sergachev's mix of offense and defense gives them much more than what would have taken his spot.

Hedman being already there is why Sergachev's production is inhibited, but Hedman won't be there forever and Tampa was gifted Hedman's successor for a flaky winger.

 

[Toene]

Meh, I don't buy the luck argument (covid) about us getting in the playoffs. Take this run and just slot it into the remaining games of a full season and we likely climb the standings.

Especially with a less condensed schedule.

 

[japhi]

The years of 18-22 are basically years not expected for a Dman to perform at all in the NHL. It is at or after 22 they break out offensively and start commanding contracts. This 22 years of age outburst is historically replicable and thus as an asset, defensemen behave like a predictable stock. The Tampa blueline was hurting bad sans Hedman at the time of the trade and Sergachev's mix of offense and defense gives them much more than what would have taken his spot.

Hedman being already there is why Sergachev's production is inhibited, but Hedman won't be there forever and Tampa was gifted Hedman's successor for a flaky winger.

You watch Tampa much this year? He is behind Hedman and McD so not sure how Hedman is holding him back. He gets lots or o zone time and isn’t very productive offensively and has d zone issues. Time will tell but i don’t see him being half the player Hedman is.

Again, would love the have him back and dmen definitely age well. Obviously a bad trade. But he looks like a 35-40 point second pair dman to me, doubt he is carrying a pair and team like Hedman is.

 

[la25ecoupe]

Would be nice to have Serge as 3rd pairing no?

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Would be nice to have Serge as 3rd pairing no?

Better than Merril and Gustafsson that's for sure

 

[Rapala]

We are a nice story but Bergevin's Sergachev trade is looming large as he provides someone serious depth to the Tampa blueline.

Fun fact. We haven’t beat McDonut in a series.

 

[Archijerej]

Yeah, shoot the messenger, pretend to a false paradigm instead of owning up.

What entitlement? You're the one pretending someone said this, actually, the way you postulated it makes it seem like it was something often repeated. The only entitlement here is you pretending you can write up any pseudo facts you fancy.

Sooo... please provide proof that it's something someone said. You're the one making the assertion. Don't try to flip this on me. You make the assertion, you provide proof if it's put into question, or else own up to creating a strawman.

Look up my discussion with Nonprokofievian about "transitionmen".

 

[Miller Time]

Every NHL team has flaws, that’s the reality of the cap world. Habs are in a very good position heading into off-season: stacked w draft picks, with at least $10M of cap space (Tatar, Alzner, Chiarot via expansion draft), and a slew of US teams ready to conduct fire sales in a suppressed market, the latter of which will force Danault, Armia & Lekhonen to resign at modest raises IMO.

Flow of prospects will start gradually ramping up to AHL next season w potentially 2-ELCs cracking the lineup (Poehling & Ylonen).

May be none of his own doing, but MBs in a very enviable position heading into the off-season....

that managing the salary cap is challenging and that every team has flaws is both true, and an empty platitude.

i think the relative merits of how "good" the habs situation is heading into the offseason is very debatable. if the context is for teams with ownership willing to spend to the cap, focused on contending and in need of significant talent upgrade(s) if improving the roster is the goal... then i'd say were definitely not in a "good" position.

"stacked with picks"... overstatement imo. yes, we have a high number of picks, but the quality of them mitigates their utility as levers to add top 4/top 6 caliber talent, both as trade currency or as prospect additions.

10M$ is not enough for JKO, Lekhonen rfa extensions, Danault (or suitable replacement)... let alone replacing or re-signing any of Perry, Armia, Tatar.

Possibly Drouin's cap hit and/or whomever Seattle takes... that's the cap flex to deal with the above AND consider any upgrade... not a lot of wiggle room (unless we hit it out of the park on the drouin trade, or find some "can't turn down" offers for the likes of byron/chiarot thanks to their playoff run.)

Poehling earning a roster spot out of camp...
Evans/Romanov taking steps forward...
JKO/Caufield/Suzuki building off playoffs to each take a solid step forward...

there's room and reason for hope/optimism, to be sure. but, there are a lot of teams that have similar/better 20-25 year old players that are in line for big jumps in performance impact. The other parts of the roster, vet situation and cap situation, imo remains far from enviable.

 

[Miller Time]

I'm fully convinced they are f***ed.

Signing Tavares was completely redundant and turned out to be a monumental error, because it screwed up their pay structure.

There's something very iffy with the culture of that group of players. Lamoriello would have never allowed it to get out of hand like that.

meh... i don't see that.

they had a pretty damn fine season, got dealt a brutal blow 3 min in to the playoffs, shook it off and had us on the ropes but then faltered in the clinching games on the back of Price going god-mode and losing a key dman.

before the Bolts won last year, there was plenty of doubting their "culture" after the CBJ sweep.
winning in the playoffs is a mix of grit, talent and dumb luck. THings need to align on so many levels to get to the finals, let alone win it... Perry has been stressing just that to our young core.

It's too easy and simplistic to write off the Laffs playoff bumbling to "culture".

 

[Nedved]

meh... i don't see that.

they had a pretty damn fine season, got dealt a brutal blow 3 min in to the playoffs, shook it off and had us on the ropes but then faltered in the clinching games on the back of Price going god-mode and losing a key dman.

before the Bolts won last year, there was plenty of doubting their "culture" after the CBJ sweep.
winning in the playoffs is a mix of grit, talent and dumb luck. THings need to align on so many levels to get to the finals, let alone win it... Perry has been stressing just that to our young core.

It's too easy and simplistic to write off the Laffs playoff bumbling to "culture".

there’s no way we’re in the finals without Tavares going down and muzzin coming out. I just don’t believe it. Lady Luck has been our friend so far, and the habs also seem confident. They’re clicking and playing well, but things have gone their way.

When fleury mishandled the puck, and then won in ot, the knights never looked the same. Will need similar bounces against Tampa.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

You watch Tampa much this year? He is behind Hedman and McD so not sure how Hedman is holding him back. He gets lots or o zone time and isn’t very productive offensively and has d zone issues. Time will tell but i don’t see him being half the player Hedman is.

Again, would love the have him back and dmen definitely age well. Obviously a bad trade. But he looks like a 35-40 point second pair dman to me, doubt he is carrying a pair and team like Hedman is.

Anyone who is skeptical of Dmen prior to the maturation apex usually winds up looking like an idiot.

People doubted Subban. People doubted Theodore.

Having a 35-40 point second pairing Dman who can be trusted over 22 minutes a night is not like a luxury. It's been a necessity for a Cup.

 

[Archijerej]

meh... i don't see that.

they had a pretty damn fine season, got dealt a brutal blow 3 min in to the playoffs, shook it off and had us on the ropes but then faltered in the clinching games on the back of Price going god-mode and losing a key dman.

before the Bolts won last year, there was plenty of doubting their "culture" after the CBJ sweep.
winning in the playoffs is a mix of grit, talent and dumb luck. THings need to align on so many levels to get to the finals, let alone win it... Perry has been stressing just that to our young core.

It's too easy and simplistic to write off the Laffs playoff bumbling to "culture".

Tampa's playoff record before winning the Cup is in no way comparable to the Leafs'. They were unquestionably an elite team that just needed some tweaks. I don't see the Leafs as such.

Their respective salary structures are not comparable as well.

The Google Boy has been an epic failure.

 

[BLONG7]

We’ll see how Serge looks when Anderson, Perry,Armia are pounding him into the back boards. He is great depth and I’d love to have him but has been shaky this postseason and hates taking contact. Lots of eyes and pressure will be on him for sure.

I think McD and Hedman are going to be less than thrilled too.......Habs are motivated, underdogs...again.

 

[Kriss E]

Tampa's playoff record before winning the Cup is in no way comparable to the Leafs'. They were unquestionably an elite team that just needed some tweaks. I don't see the Leafs as such.

Their respective salary structures are not comparable as well.

The Google Boy has been an epic failure.

The Leafs do not need an overhaul. Marner and Matthews need to play a bit differently. They got cocky early on, laughing in scrums, clearly taking us lightly and they got burnt for it.
The Leafs without Tavares is also a very different one. It's much easier to shut them down when it's that one power line up front, if they also had Tavares manning the other line, I don't think we beat them.

They just need some tweaking as well.

 

[dcyhabs]

I think McD and Hedman are going to be less than thrilled too.......Habs are motivated, underdogs...again.

Hedman and McD are good enough that it won't matter. The habs will need good performances and bounces for the series to be competitive.

 

[Phil Parent]

Armia is on COVID protocol.

 

[Runner77]

Lucky we made the playoffs.

Exactly. Also part of MB’s plan — a traditional cap team not spending to the cap for 3 straight seasons cause he knew COVID was coming and that the Habs would be one of few teams with cap room to sign desperate free agents. Also part of the plan: the reset ending thanks to a play-in.

 

[Runner77]

Would be nice to have Serge as 3rd pairing no?

Apparently not. It would disparage both Drouin and MB.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Apparently not. It would disparage both Drouin and MB.

The Sergachev trade is basically the Pacioretty trade but the sides are flipped. Solid addition by Tampa at worst while Montreal won't even have the asset they got on the ice at all.

 

[Runner77]

So if we don't win the cup he'll get 4-5 more years to win one.

If we do, oh brother, get used to the suit.

MB’s next contract should really be 3 years based on how other teams have handled their GMs.

 

[Runner77]

No, other teams likely didn't view Drouin highly and fellow Eastern teams would have waited until his value was peanuts. Bergevin's valuation was a French Barzal, as shown by Drouin slotting into CENTER after the acquisition and being immediately re-signed.

MB appears to have been swayed to a non-negligible extent by the fact of Drouin being local.

 

[Frenchy]

I just deleted a few comments about a subject that will lead to false speculations and into libel territory.

Keep it off this forum .

Thank you

 

[salbutera]

The Leafs do not need an overhaul. Marner and Matthews need to play a bit differently. They got cocky early on, laughing in scrums, clearly taking us lightly and they got burnt for it.
The Leafs without Tavares is also a very different one. It's much easier to shut them down when it's that one power line up front, if they also had Tavares manning the other line, I don't think we beat them.

They just need some tweaking as well.

Leafs personify tinker bell hockey, even TBay realized they needed the nastiness of Coleman, Goodrow & Maroon, which was the philosophical vision of Brisebois vs Stevie Y. They haven’t looked back since

I don’t see Dubas implementing a dose of nastiness in the Leafs regular lineup...that’s just not his philosophy - they don’t draft those types, don’t sign those types and have no prospect in that mold

 

[salbutera]

that managing the salary cap is challenging and that every team has flaws is both true, and an empty platitude.

i think the relative merits of how "good" the habs situation is heading into the offseason is very debatable. if the context is for teams with ownership willing to spend to the cap, focused on contending and in need of significant talent upgrade(s) if improving the roster is the goal... then i'd say were definitely not in a "good" position.

"stacked with picks"... overstatement imo. yes, we have a high number of picks, but the quality of them mitigates their utility as levers to add top 4/top 6 caliber talent, both as trade currency or as prospect additions.

10M$ is not enough for JKO, Lekhonen rfa extensions, Danault (or suitable replacement)... let alone replacing or re-signing any of Perry, Armia, Tatar.

Possibly Drouin's cap hit and/or whomever Seattle takes... that's the cap flex to deal with the above AND consider any upgrade... not a lot of wiggle room (unless we hit it out of the park on the drouin trade, or find some "can't turn down" offers for the likes of byron/chiarot thanks to their playoff run.)

Poehling earning a roster spot out of camp...
Evans/Romanov taking steps forward...
JKO/Caufield/Suzuki building off playoffs to each take a solid step forward...

there's room and reason for hope/optimism, to be sure. but, there are a lot of teams that have similar/better 20-25 year old players that are in line for big jumps in performance impact. The other parts of the roster, vet situation and cap situation, imo remains far from enviable.

Many US teams will again be in jettisoning $ mode this off-season - talk here in Bruins land is Jacobs has let Neely know if he wants to keep his job, get the Big Bad Bruins back, and $alaries out the door. Sweeney’s analytics support group has been let go, per ownership orders

Habs playoff run has generated revenue, and willingness / ability to spend ca$h on player bonuses, which will potentially allow for options to be had from teams looking at fire sales to avoid paying July 1st bonuses even if it means eating up AAV that doesn’t involve real $alaries.

For example I could see Az willing to ship OEL for Drouin while eating difference in cap space - w Habs paying $10M in actual salary and bonuses going forward and Az reducing salary impact to $5M. Not saying that’s a good deal or something Habs should do, but type of deals I expect will become available to teams willing to spend