Whitesnake
If you rebuild, they will come.
- Jan 5, 2003
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Your image inspired an update. I hope you don't mind ...
If we are going with a TV show, in honour of how Bergy lets himself go when things get tough:Your image inspired an update. I hope you don't mind ...
Do we know who are the other guests?
They could ask him the hard questions.
They taped the show today. Chantal Machabée is the only sports guest I see from the list, she's on the show to promo her book. It would all depend on when Bergevin is brought in -- if he's the first guest, he'll likely leave right after he's done:
You dont think he'll stay for a glass of wine?
PK Subban would still be here, that's for sure. And we'd have been a lot better off without either of these clowns. That's also for sure.Jared Tinordi would be a multiple Norris winning Dman no doubt.
Doubtful...PK Subban would still be here. That's for sure.
Right...Doubtful...
the issues with PK Subban and this organization go much further than Michel Therrien & Sylvain Lefebvre (there's no connection with the latter at all).
Only way PK Subban were still here, were if Molson stepped down as owner of this team and sold it to someone who didn't mind Subban's star shining just as bright as the Montreal Canadiens.
Furthermore - the fundamental issues with this team/organization go MUCH further than just the presence of PK Subban.
I never did this, I have not made A SINGLE STATEMENT THAT DEFENDS ANY COACH, in fact, I just literally threw the entire organization under the bus because of how they dealt with PK Subban...Right...
Feel free to continue defending terrible coaches and making posts about Jared Tinordi. I'm not wasting my time with this.
Just want to clarify...I said the reasons why Subban was traded went beyond just his relationship with Therrien (Lefebvre, like we both said, is irrelevant to Subban).Yeah he just said the coaching wasn't relevant (how is lefebvre relevant?).
How come people here always ignore what others say? You guys all see what you want to see.
Just want to clarify...I said the reasons why Subban was traded went beyond just his relationship with Therrien (Lefebvre, like we both said, is irrelevant to Subban).
As awful as Therrien handled Subban, there was more than just that, that led to the trade.
Somehow, he read that to mean I was defending coaching.
great questions - don't expect answers.
It's nice to fantasize but the reality is that we'd have simply hired someone else who thinks along the exact same lines as Bergevin. We have had defense-first coaching and character-over-skill general managing of one degree or another for the past 25 years. The names have changed but the underlying philosophy has not.He outlasted Therrien...
Just think about how much further we'd be ahead if we hadn't hired either one of them.
You could trace back posts of mine to Subban's 2nd year that talk about how the organization is falling into false perceptions about Subban, so i'm in complete agreement with your post here.I think a lot of what was assumed to be issues regarding Subban could have been controlled or not come to be at all had he had a coaching staff that knew how to handle that kind of personality.
I always took issue with how the organization wanted to "tame" Subban when he's really the type of guy you should be leaching off his energy. I drew parallels to Ovechkin and his younger days in Washington in the past. Eventually they grow out of it and lead in their own way. In Montréal, it's as if the organization always took the disapproving father figure role and Subban was in a "prove them wrong" or straight up "**** them, I know I'm right" mindset.
Despite what LG said, i'm not absolving Therrien of any blame for what unfolded with Subban - I simply suggested there are far more individuals responsible for it as well. He's one of many.It was just a very unhealthy relationship from the beginning, and so I think it's only natural to let Therrien get the blame for most of what unfolded with Subban. He didn't know how to handle him.
You could trace back posts of mine to Subban's 2nd year that talk about how the organization is falling into false perceptions about Subban, so i'm in complete agreement with your post here.
But I do think things went beyond his relationship with the coach at a certain point, so I don't a different coach would of been able to prevent the eventual trade.
Despite what LG said, i'm not absolving Therrien of any blame for what unfolded with Subban - I simply suggested there are far more individuals responsible for it as well. He's one of many.
Pretty much...they would of just hired another coach capable of suffocating Subban's personality which was just too much for this ultra-conservative franchise to deal with.It's nice to fantasize but the reality is that we'd have simply hired someone else who thinks along the exact same lines as Bergevin. We have had defense-first coaching and character-over-skill general managing of one degree or another for the past 25 years. The names have changed but the underlying philosophy has not.
There was talk about 'taming' PK Subban even before Bergevin/Therrien came on board...you can trace it back to Jacques Martin/ Randy Cunneyworth's/Pierre Gauthier's last year or 2 with the Habs.I agree, but I think it was allowed to bubble to that point in large part due to Therrien.
Although, to be fair, the whole shoving down a laughably underpaid bridge contract down Subban's throat was a 100% on Bergevin and probably wasn't the best footing to start a relationship.
It's nice to fantasize but the reality is that we'd have simply hired someone else who thinks along the exact same lines as Bergevin. We have had defense-first coaching and character-over-skill general managing of one degree or another for the past 25 years. The names have changed but the underlying philosophy has not.
There was talk about 'taming' PK Subban even before Bergevin/Therrien came on board...you can trace it back to Jacques Martin/ Randy Cunneyworth's/Pierre Gauthier's last year or 2 with the Habs.
I might be remembering wrong - but I recall some friction with Subban & Boucher his only year in HamiltonIt's funny though because Subban seemed to do great with Boucher in the AHL and he's as defensive and strict as they get. The fact Boucher had won with our then young core is in large part why I would've liked him to be given a shot when he was available.
No public shaming, that wasn't Martin's style...but there was also some friction, whether real or just perceived.Martin was a lot more mellow with PK though... I don't recall him publicly throwing PK under the bus. He trusted him to kill penalties and gave him a ton of responsibilities early on his career, and Subban did great when the coaching staff put their trust in him.
Like I said, I thought Therrien was just picking off where his predecessors left off.Therrien came around, and his whole philosophy of "easing him in" on the third pair with Bouillon, not having him out there when he statistically was one of the top PKer in the league... It was just odd. Therrien didn't seem like a fan of his if you go back to his talkshow days either.
And they went out and traded him for the poster boy of what you just describedAgain I go back to my IBM/Apple comparison:
The Habs are IBM. White, right and polite. Gray flannel suits. Black Oxford shoes. Buttoned-down collars. Subban is a dark-skinned, free-thinking, improvisational Steve Jobs type of character. Now the bosses are going to try and make him work in a cubicle for 8 hours a day.
That isn't a recipe for success on a pro hockey team. It's the plot outline for a bad workplace sitcom.
Galchenyuk might actually be playing at the position he was drafted for.PK Subban would still be here, that's for sure. And we'd have been a lot better off without either of these clowns. That's also for sure.