Marc Bergevin - More Excuses Needed... Edition Pt 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
89,395
36,657
This post is a bunch of random stuff make a point please! His post is utterly different from the interpretation you're now giving it. I'm not interested in reading your walls of incoherent stuff.

I don't see anything contradicting or arguing what I'm saying at all in there.

Make a point? Bergevin has no plan since he's here. Satisfied?

Having a bunch of kids isn't a plan.

And the guy that were brought in, you said the CONTRIBUTED TREMENDOUSLY, yet we didn't make the playoffs. I've never seen someobody comment on their team saying how they positively NOT made the playoffs. Unless you take what WE predicted which is just ludicrous and is in no way what should be looked at to know if a team had a good season or not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAChampion

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
"No plan" : names a tremendous amount of young talent in the same post

"didn't try to improve the team in the slightest" - added a fourth line center and a third line winger that both contributed tremendously

Ok bud

A 4th line center? lollllll Gee...I wonder why that didn't really change much of anything. Maybe next time he can get a 13th forward..
It's post like these that will make people believe you're a defender.

Trading for these bottom liners isn't going to change anything at the end of the day, and...well....it didn't. That's not what people consider improvements. A 4th liner...lolll Jesus Christ.

And for them kids, ya, that's what you would expect from a team who's been crap. Trade some guys to get more picks or prospects, Brook, Romanov, KK, Drouin/Serg they come from the team sucking when the plan was not to suck.
I'd also go on to say people were discussing how Habs have a deep pool of prospect after the 12 draft too. Raving about DLR, Sherback, how lucky were we Beaulieu dropped to us! Tinordi was an untouchable around these boards at some point. I mean FFS, people were excited about Avtsin and Kristo, just to name those two. Now I agree, the current group of kids look more promising, but they still are just prospects and could very well end up not being much.
So I'll wait before claiming they're so good.

Btw, naming young players isn't a ''plan''.
 

admiralcadillac

Registered User
Oct 22, 2017
7,493
6,727
A 4th line center? lollllll Gee...I wonder why that didn't really change much of anything. Maybe next time he can get a 13th forward..
It's post like these that will make people believe you're a defender.

Trading for these bottom liners isn't going to change anything at the end of the day, and...well....it didn't. That's not what people consider improvements. A 4th liner...lolll Jesus Christ.

And for them kids, ya, that's what you would expect from a team who's been crap. Trade some guys to get more picks or prospects, Brook, Romanov, KK, Drouin/Serg they come from the team sucking when the plan was not to suck.
I'd also go on to say people were discussing how Habs have a deep pool of prospect after the 12 draft too. Raving about DLR, Sherback, how lucky were we Beaulieu dropped to us! Tinordi was an untouchable around these boards at some point. I mean FFS, people were excited about Avtsin and Kristo, just to name those two. Now I agree, the current group of kids look more promising, but they still are just prospects and could very well end up not being much.
So I'll wait before claiming they're so good.

Btw, naming young players isn't a ''plan''.

"Don't try to improve your team in the slightest"

Clearly improves his team. What were you expecting? Filled with a bunch of guffaws but nothing to suggest, the moto of hfboards, criticism with nothing behind it.

"naming young players isn't a plan" - that's not even close to an argument, and neither is pointing to a bunch of failed prospects. You can point to any pool and say "look - this team had a bunch of promising youngsters but they all f***ing failed". Great analysis Kriss E really thought provoking - I guess that means trading vets for picks like you said is a surefire way to end up with nothing. Everything you put out at the moment has been a bunch of nonsense.

If I need to make it clear, the "plan" is clearly to find ways to make advantageous trades, keep the vets worth keeping, and stockpile draft picks. If more vets need to go, they probably will.

When will it be my turn to post and completely evacuate any elements of it from my memory

Make a point? Bergevin has no plan since he's here. Satisfied?

Having a bunch of kids isn't a plan.

And the guy that were brought in, you said the CONTRIBUTED TREMENDOUSLY, yet we didn't make the playoffs. I've never seen someobody comment on their team saying how they positively NOT made the playoffs. Unless you take what WE predicted which is just ludicrous and is in no way what should be looked at to know if a team had a good season or not.

We brought in a guy for free that was a positive contributor in the games he was in.Unless of course you think we could've gotten Duchene for a 4th round pick and that's why you're mad. Would make sense.

Weal and Thompson actually were improvements, that we didn't make the playoffs is not on them, and you know it. Suggesting it is - is stupid.
 
Last edited:

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
"Don't try to improve your team in the slightest"

Clearly improves his team. What were you expecting? Filled with a bunch of guffaws but nothing to suggest, the moto of hfboards, criticism with nothing behind it.

"naming young players isn't a plan" - that's not even close to an argument

When will it be my turn to post and completely evacuate any elements of it from my memory

I mentioned improvements to make sure this team can sneak into the POs, not get a better 4th liner...I mean, a bit of common sense here?? Nope. You found one quote to nitpick instead...you said ''not in the slightest!!!! Well he got a better 4th liner! Haa ha!!! Got you!!''
And dare say others aren't objective and wonder why people call you a Bergey defender.

Nothing to suggest? Am I the GM? I already suggested what I would have done btw, move Petry and Tatar early on. But hey, if I'm the GM, well we don't get Tatar in the first place and I ask for another prospect or more picks in return for Patches. After all, this was a season with no expectations and people agree a rebuild is needed, so it doesn't matter if we have holes and finish at the bottom, quite the contrary actually it's expected.

You're right, ''naming young players isn't a plan'' isn't an argument, it's a fact. Are we rebuilding? Is that what you're hinting at? Then say it. If we are, then when is our window to compete? Next year? In 2 years? In 3 years or more? So what do you do with all the not so young players then? Who do you see as a must keep to help those kids and what do they bring that's so invaluable we shouldn't trade in order to get even better kids for the future?..
Having answers to those questions will help you create your plan. Just saying we have young players mean absolutely f*** all.
 
Last edited:

Miller Time

Registered User
Sep 16, 2004
23,052
15,395
Sorry but the team didn’t just tinker around the edges it got rid of it’s third overall pick in Galchenyuk and traded its captain.

Also, these playoffs are kind of pointing to a different type of team being built.

If you’re saying they didn’t do enough to be worse it’s definitely not based on where you saw this team being in the standings at the start of the year.

Again everyone is just ignoring their evaluations if the team prior to the season

I was referencing this season, not last off season.

Certainly, I'd agree that the offseason suggested a certain direction...
- not using available cap to address holes via UFA

- trading the captain for prospect/pick/downgrade winger

- trading Galch for a younger & less successful (to that point) project

- going into the season with an AHL caliber d- group (knowing Weber was out 1/2 the year).

All the major moves pointed towards a rebuild focus...


Then the season started, and any consistency or direction disappeared, showing, yet again, that there is no vision or plan.
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
75,049
44,816
I was referencing this season, not last off season.

Certainly, I'd agree that the offseason suggested a certain direction...
- not using available cap to address holes via UFA

- trading the captain for prospect/pick/downgrade winger

- trading Galch for a younger & less successful (to that point) project

- going into the season with an AHL caliber d- group (knowing Weber was out 1/2 the year).

All the major moves pointed towards a rebuild focus...


Then the season started, and any consistency or direction disappeared, showing, yet again, that there is no vision or plan.
Again... we don't go all the way on anything.

Rebuilding this year would've made a lot of sense. But to do that you've got to go all the way. Trading Max isn't enough. You've got to deal Price and Weber as well.

And once it looked like we were better than we thought we did nothing to make the playoffs. We had tons of cap space and we were super close. It wouldn't have taken much. But we did nothing on that front either.

So... we're out of the playoffs and drafting 15th. What a successful year.
 

admiralcadillac

Registered User
Oct 22, 2017
7,493
6,727
I mentioned improvements to make sure this team can sneak into the POs, not get a better 4th liner...I mean, a bit of common sense here?? Nope. You found one quote to nitpick instead...you said ''not in the slightest!!!! Well he got a better 4th liner! Haa ha!!! Got you!!''
And dare say others aren't objective and wonder why people call you a Bergey defender.

Nothing to suggest? Am I the GM? I already suggested what I would have done btw, move Petry and Tatar early on. But hey, if I'm the GM, well we don't get Tatar in the first place and I ask for another prospect or more picks in return for Patches. After all, this was a season with no expectations and people agree a rebuild is needed, so it doesn't matter if we have holes and finish at the bottom, quite the contrary actually it's expected.

You're right, ''naming young players isn't a plan'' isn't an argument, it's a fact. Are we rebuilding? Is that what you're hinting at? Then say it. If we are, then when is our window to compete? Next year? In 2 years? In 3 years or more? So what do you do with all the not so young players then? Who do you see as a must keep to help those kids and what do they bring that's so invaluable we shouldn't trade in order to get even better kids for the future?..
Having answers to those questions will help you create your plan. Just saying we have young players mean absolutely **** all.

Weal and Thompson were additions to a team already in the playoffs, that was never supposed to be. They certainly weren't subtractions - careful with your hyperbole then I don't know what to tell you? It seemed like an obvious statement to me. I guess, one again, you were expecting us to get Duchene or something...

Once again - false dichotomy.

We NEED to trade Weber and Price or we aren't rebuilding, we NEED to trade for (whom?) at the deadline or we aren't improving the team.

Neither of those things is necessarily true and neither worked the way they were supposed to this year, I'll give you that.

Again... we don't go all the way on anything.

Rebuilding this year would've made a lot of sense. But to do that you've got to go all the way. Trading Max isn't enough. You've got to deal Price and Weber as well.

And once it looked like we were better than we thought we did nothing to make the playoffs. We had tons of cap space and we were super close. It wouldn't have taken much. But we did nothing on that front either.

So... we're out of the playoffs and drafting 15th. What a successful year.

No, we haven't, but you don't need to that all in one year - you're creating your own misery with these all or nothing doomsday scenarios that just don't really make sense in the context of an actual hockey team.

Yeah it was a good year, I enjoyed watching this year. I don't see the rush to getting rid of the only D men able to play hockey on our team in Petry and Weber as so many are advocating at the moment. We don't currently have replacements for Price and Weber, get some or develop some and then get rid of them. You also don't need to get rid of all your vets to rebuild. That's false.

Apparently on hfboards every year is either a cup or a lottery pick. No wonder there's so much sourpuss disappointment.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: scrubadam and 417

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
I was referencing this season, not last off season.

Certainly, I'd agree that the offseason suggested a certain direction...
- not using available cap to address holes via UFA

- trading the captain for prospect/pick/downgrade winger

- trading Galch for a younger & less successful (to that point) project

- going into the season with an AHL caliber d- group (knowing Weber was out 1/2 the year).

All the major moves pointed towards a rebuild focus...


Then the season started, and any consistency or direction disappeared, showing, yet again, that there is no vision or plan.

I can also agree with that. That said, I feel the direction was more to ''change things'' then the conventional rebuild.

- True, we did not use the cap space, but we also had it last season too. Both times, he tried to use it on Radu/Markov or Tavares/Stastny, he just failed to lock those guys up.

- Trading Patches was pretty obvious to do, but then, he was insisting on getting back a return roster player. Not sure why...I'd rather have gotten another prospect or picks. Tatar was more of a cap dumb from vegas, he was terrible there. Luckily for us he bounced back but we should use that to our advantage and move him, not keep him.

- No problem with Galch vs Domi swap now, but it's young vs young.

- Went into it with an even worse one the previous year.

So really...can easily look at what happened and say Bergevin didn't really have much of a plan yet again. Just throws a bunch of crap at the wall and sees what sticks.
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
Weal and Thompson were additions to a team already in the playoffs, that was never supposed to be. They certainly weren't substructions. careful with your hyperbole then I don't know what to tell you? It seemed like an obvious statement to me. I guess, one again, you were expecting us to get Duchene or something...

Once again - false dichotomy.
I didn't want Duchene. But again, if you're asking me what I want then I wanted to sell, not buy.
What I care little for are trades like Thompson that are not going to change much of anything in the grand scheme of things. We are not a contending team in need of depth on the 4th line. All these trades do is give ammo to guys like you who can then say ''Bergevin did make a move! I guess you were crazily expecting Duchene or something..''.

We NEED to trade Weber and Price or we aren't rebuilding, we NEED to trade for (whom?) at the deadline or we aren't improving the team.

Neither of those things is necessarily true and neither worked the way they were supposed to this year, I'll give you that.
Yes, we need to sell guys who are likely to have declined by the time our rebuild is complete and ready to be more competitive. Moving those guys will help us 1) draft higher in the present and 2) get more assets who'll help us in the future where we want to be competitive.

But if we are a bubble team shooting for the POs. No, obviously you don't trade Poehling and Romanov, but you try to get better mid range depth to help you get over the hump. Not a freaking 4th line center.

No, we haven't, but you don't need to that all in one year - you're creating your own misery with these all or nothing doomsday scenarios that just don't really make sense in the context of an actual hockey team.
Nobody ever suggested it had to be done in a year, that's your own fabrication. What needs to be established is a direction, which hasn't been done. Are we stocking up on more prospects? Are we going to trade some for an established player? Are we going for free agents?
None of us have an idea. Why? Because there is no set direction.

Yeah it was a good year, I enjoyed watching this year. I don't see the rush to getting rid of the only D men able to play hockey on our team in Petry and Weber as so many are advocating at the moment. We don't currently have replacements for Price and Weber, get some or develop some and then get rid of them. You also don't need to get rid of all your vets to rebuild. That's false.
Who cares man? Is the objective to ''enjoy watching'' or ''build a legit contender''?
Aren't we rebuilding? So who cares if we have no replacement for Petry ready to step in? Again, this goes back to how you need structure and planning.
When are we expecting to be competitive? In 3 years? Well Petry has 2 years left on his deal, he was having a career year. Do we want Petry here in 3 years signed to a new longterm deal? Or are we better off moving him now while he's excelling to maximize the return, getting us even more kids/assets that we could use more down the line when we're expected to compete?...

You're not understanding some simple logic here. Again, it's not about trading everyone within a few months, it's about having a clear direction.
Same goes for Tatar. If the goal is to wait for the Romanovs..Poehlings..Suzukis...even KK...to not only be NHLers but ready to actually take on key roles, then are we better off keeping the Tatars-Petrys in order to fight to make the POs or are we better off moving those guys and bulking up what will be our future core? Seems obvious to me.

Apparently on hfboards every year is either a cup or a lottery pick. No wonder there's so much sourpuss disappointment.
Such strawman BS.

There will come a time where we will be transitioning from rebuild to contending, when that happens we might be in that bubble zone, but that is not where we currently are. We don't have enough high end talent to transition up towards competing yet and drafting 15th is exactly what we didn't want this year.
 

Spearmint Rhino

Registered User
Sep 17, 2013
8,922
8,649
These playoffs have provided MB excuses for the next few years. Winning the Cups hard, remember Tampa? Anything can happen remember Columbus/Carolina/Avs/Stars? Remember we had more points than Colorado and they upset Calgary. Hard work and attitude beats skill? Washington win the Cup then gone 1st round. Toronto added Tavares and gave up picks to go out in the 1st round. Vegas go from losing the final to out in 1st round after trading away massive futures.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tighthead

Scintillating10

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
19,205
8,716
Nova Scotia
Montreal turned out to be a small market...
Wish we had bottomed out this year and be drafting in the top 3. Also allowed us to trade 2 or 3 veterans at deadline for more first round picks and free up 20-22 million in capspace. Habs be sitting pretty headed into the draft and free agency with 4 first round picks, one in the top 3. Along with 22 million in extra caproom.

But that stuff has to be planned up in the fall. Put in place at the trade deadlline
 

Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
89,395
36,657
We brought in a guy for free that was a positive contributor in the games he was in.Unless of course you think we could've gotten Duchene for a 4th round pick and that's why you're mad. Would make sense.

Weal and Thompson actually were improvements, that we didn't make the playoffs is not on them, and you know it. Suggesting it is - is stupid.

Suggesting it is is indeed stupid...thank god that's not what I meant. Yet, your selective reading rides again. OBVIOUSLY, it's not on them. They did the best with what they have. The problem is not on them. The problem is on the guy who keeps saying that anything can happen and not do something more substantial so it happens. But somehow, we were already super strong and the only thing needed was to add fillers. Which is sometimes what top teams are doing. I guess we are a top team then...a non-playoff top team.

Duchesne for a 4th? Are you dumb? Woudl have never given them a 4th. A 6th at best. By the way.....remember when I said that you think of us as dumb and stupid and you said that it was, how did you said it, BLATANTLY FALSE? How's that for an example?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pickles

Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
89,395
36,657
These playoffs have provided MB excuses for the next few years. Winning the Cups hard, remember Tampa? Anything can happen remember Columbus/Carolina/Avs/Stars? Remember we had more points than Colorado and they upset Calgary. Hard work and attitude beats skill? Washington win the Cup then gone 1st round. Toronto added Tavares and gave up picks to go out in the 1st round. Vegas go from losing the final to out in 1st round after trading away massive futures.

First, the only thing is does is to state how stupid he was for not going harder at the deadline. We missed the cut because of his inaction.

Then, while everything can happen, for everything happening, you actually need to make the playoffs. How can the guy be so right, and yes, miss 3 years out of 4 the playoffs? Weren't we told that we should stop listening to him and just watch his actions? Why the heck would anything can happen be relevant then?

Also, this is THIS year. Can't wait to see if it will happen again the same way. And the past suggests that it does NOT happen regularly? Are we in a new era when it will happen? Maybe. If so, the guy better wake the f*** up and make it happen. 'Cause just saying it can won't cut it.

Finally...this is the 1st round. Everything that happened....is to reach the 2nd round. Yet, If Boston wins, Isles wins and Sharks wins, you are talking about the 3rd, 5th and 6th best team in the league. Then, it leaves you with the 11th, 12th, 13th, and 15th and 17th teams in the league. But then, since January, the Blues with their NEW goalie, are playing like a top team. Not a 12th. And the Jackets with their new deadline additions, are NOT A 13th team. BUt yes, despite all that, they should not have beaten Tampa in 4...that's for sure.
 
Last edited:

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
Wish we had bottomed out this year and be drafting in the top 3. Also allowed us to trade 2 or 3 veterans at deadline for more first round picks and free up 20-22 million in capspace. Habs be sitting pretty headed into the draft and free agency with 4 first round picks, one in the top 3. Along with 22 million in extra caproom.

But that stuff has to be planned up in the fall. Put in place at the trade deadlline
That's why it's alarming this wasn't planned when Bergevin admitted to a ''reset''.
 

teamfirst

Registered User
Oct 28, 2016
3,682
2,407
Who cares man? Is the objective to ''enjoy watching'' or ''build a legit contender''?
Aren't we rebuilding? So who cares if we have no replacement for Petry ready to step in?


To me , that's where you got it all wrong

If you start with this kind of thinking, you will never be able to understand what is being a GM in the NHL
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
To me , that's where you got it all wrong

If you start with this kind of thinking, you will never be able to understand what is being a GM in the NHL
Considering most the GMs have a difficult time building their teams into a contender, I'm not sure I have a problem with you telling me I'm thinking outside their BS box.

Cant blame you, watching this bozo run this club for years makes it difficult for people to recognize a good logical plan anymore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Whitesnake

teamfirst

Registered User
Oct 28, 2016
3,682
2,407
Considering most the GMs have a difficult time building their teams into a contender, I'm not sure I have a problem with you telling me I'm thinking outside their BS box.

Cant blame you, watching this bozo run this club for years makes it difficult for people to recognize a good logical plan anymore.



Co'mon now, in wich entertainment businesses will you hire someone like you who thinks

''Who cares man? Is the objective to ''enjoy watching''

you're not being realistic here, and that's why you're in no way able to evaluate properly the work of any NHL GM, you may have some valid points to bring in evaluating some of the moves a GM do or not do but if you start a plan to become contender with the premesis that you dont have to entertain your clients you're dead wrong at the start
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,799
20,951
Co'mon now, in wich entertainment businesses will you hire someone like you who thinks

''Who cares man? Is the objective to ''enjoy watching''

you're not being realistic here, and that's why you're in no way able to evaluate properly the work of any NHL GM, you may have some valid points to bring in evaluating some of the moves a GM do or not do but if you start a plan to become contender with the premesis that you dont have to entertain your clients you're dead wrong at the start

There is no evidence that Bergevin cares about entertainment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tighthead

teamfirst

Registered User
Oct 28, 2016
3,682
2,407
There is no evidence that Bergevin cares about entertainment.


And.......




My comment was more about GM's in general, but i do think MB like any other GM's has a mandate of building the best team possible to be able to entertain their custumer, does he care or not.......well only him know for sure
 

Baksfamous112

Registered User
Jul 21, 2016
7,523
4,562
I mentioned improvements to make sure this team can sneak into the POs, not get a better 4th liner...I mean, a bit of common sense here?? Nope. You found one quote to nitpick instead...you said ''not in the slightest!!!! Well he got a better 4th liner! Haa ha!!! Got you!!''
And dare say others aren't objective and wonder why people call you a Bergey defender.

Nothing to suggest? Am I the GM? I already suggested what I would have done btw, move Petry and Tatar early on. But hey, if I'm the GM, well we don't get Tatar in the first place and I ask for another prospect or more picks in return for Patches. After all, this was a season with no expectations and people agree a rebuild is needed, so it doesn't matter if we have holes and finish at the bottom, quite the contrary actually it's expected.

You're right, ''naming young players isn't a plan'' isn't an argument, it's a fact. Are we rebuilding? Is that what you're hinting at? Then say it. If we are, then when is our window to compete? Next year? In 2 years? In 3 years or more? So what do you do with all the not so young players then? Who do you see as a must keep to help those kids and what do they bring that's so invaluable we shouldn't trade in order to get even better kids for the future?..
Having answers to those questions will help you create your plan. Just saying we have young players mean absolutely **** all.

Tatar was added to the trade to even out the $$ and open a roster spot for Pacioretty. He just turned out to have a very solid season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAChampion
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad