Marc Bergevin - More Excuses Needed... Edition Pt 2

[ECWHSWI]

Yeah everyone who doesn't share your point of view is an infidel what else is new here

making stuff up, I see.

 

[waffledave]

Marc Bergevin is maybe the only GM in the world who is somehow praised for the failures of other teams.

On the Habs subreddit they are complaining that the mods aren't allowing them to "celebrate" the Leafs loss and how Bergevin is a genius because the Leafs lost in the 1st round. Explain that one to me.

 

[Scintillating10]

Canadiens in good shape to use their caproom this summer to their advantage. Some opportunity exist there because many clubs are in cap trouble. Teams are forced into making a trade they normally wouldn't make. We could acquire a better than average player for nil, or get a good deal on him for renting out cap space.

Tampa is in trouble with big increases to Kucherov, Gourde and Pointe. Toronto in serious trouble to retain Marner and Kapanen. Oilers be looking to move salary to acquire players to keep McDavid happy. Winnipeg is in trouble. To name a few teams.

The Jets we have dealt with before and are in deep cap trouble this summer. Big increases to Wheeler, Trouba, Laine and Connor. They are going to have to fish or cut bait to keep all those 4.

A Tampa fan offered a discount on Sergachev to take on 2 of their bad contracts? Sergachev gives us depth to trade a Petry, maybe a Drouin also if we think a Suzuki or Poehlin is ready. Or Gourde's 25 goals replaces Drouin's. Moving those 2 gives us 2 extra first round picks? But also moving Petry and Drouin gives us caproom to still sign a Duchene or Gardiner or Myers. Or offer sheet a Connor or Kapanen? Or if you really want to load up on draft maybe take on a terrible contract in a Lucic type for a high pick also.

 

[admiralcadillac]

it's not that there are only 2 options available, it's that there are only two paths that give a sports team (in a cap/draft environment) the highest probability to build a contending roster.

nuance is all fine and good, but in reality, clarity of focus trumps waffling consistently. Waiting to get lucky, or for the stars to align, can and does work, its just not particularly effective.

What we did this past season is the worst (as in lowest probability) approach to achieving post-season success... now or in the future. Tinkering around the edges, hoping to get "in and see what happens", ensures that you don't maximize available assets either for immediate reinforcements or for future gain.

There's a wealth of research and documentation on both sport and military leadership that reinforces this idea... "Going for it" doesn't guarantee success (be it in a short term or long term focus), but playing the middle ground far more frequently leads to defeat.

The cap space we did not use (either to get roster improvements, or to allow other teams to make room for roster improvements at the expense of future assets given to us for the cap relief), the 15th overall pick we ended up with, and the roster full of players not gaining from playoff experience are all net negatives for our franchise's objective of fielding a team that can win a cup... that's a complete failure on the part of the GM, one that was avoidable had he had the courage to pick a clear direction

Sorry but the team didn’t just tinker around the edges it got rid of it’s third overall pick in Galchenyuk and traded its captain.

Also, these playoffs are kind of pointing to a different type of team being built.

If you’re saying they didn’t do enough to be worse it’s definitely not based on where you saw this team being in the standings at the start of the year.

Again everyone is just ignoring their evaluations if the team prior to the season

making stuff up, I see.

Maybe you need dementia pills at this point

 

[ahmedou]

Canadiens in good shape to use their caproom this summer to their advantage. Some opportunity exist there because many clubs are in cap trouble. Teams are forced into making a trade they normally wouldn't make. We could acquire a better than average player for nil, or get a good deal on him for renting out cap space.

Montreal turned out to be a small market...

 

[BLONG7]

We need a couple of moves to help us out, and once again, not sure why we would think MB should be allowed to make these moves, based on one good summer, out of his first 7 years.

Since he ripped the D apart, it has needed to be better, we need a real PMD who can RUN the PP. No more Alzner's...FFS.

 

[417]

We need a couple of moves to help us out, and once again, not sure why we would think MB should be allowed to make these moves, based on one good summer, out of his first 7 years.

Since he ripped the D apart, it has needed to be better, we need a real PMD who can RUN the PP. No more Alzner's...FFS.

Because whether or not we think he should is irrelevant.

He's the GM and he WILL be making these moves. All we can hope for is is hope he has as good if not a better summer then the one past.

 

[ahmedou]

What a gamble games it'll be...

 

[admiralcadillac]

Neither things to do? So don't sell. Don't buy. Don't try to improve your team in the slightest just to squeak into the POs....Just do nothing? How is this ever the right strategy?
All I'm hearing from you are excuses, no plan, no direction...let's just wait it out, see next year how everyone is going to improve or not, and what prospect is ready. Maybe we sign someone this summer...maybe we don't. Maybe something will be available to us via trade, or not.

Again, no idea, no plan, no direction, no structure, no clue. Maybe this maybe that.

Do you not realize this was the stance Bergevin took when he was named GM? He came over, got rid of obvious garbage, didn't commit to any free agents, signed cheap depth players, waited for players to be available for cheap like Vanek or Petry...never committed to a direction.
Then he attempted making bigger moves, that made him miss the POs 2 out of 3 years, which then made him say ''we gonna reset'', leading to us missing the POs for the 3rd year out of 4.

You said it's pretty standard for rebuilding teams to be missing the POs so you don't get the uproar. Ya. It's also pretty standard for them to sell players and stock up more on prospects/picks. He did a bit of that, but again, doesn't seem fully committed to it.
When are we expecting to compete exactly? In 2 years? or 3-4?? Because what you should have done this year is very dependent of when you expect to compete.
If we are waiting for the Poehling, Suzuki, KK, Fleury, Brook, Romanov to come around, well, why are we keeping the Weber-Petry-Tatar..etc..Why sign Byron, I mean, we really need Byron around if we want to compete in a few years with younger guys?? Or considering we really don't care where we finish this year because we're in reset mode, maybe moving some vets we don't really have to keep around for picks/prospects who will help in the future is a better decision..
No direction. No commitment. No plan.

That has always been the problem and remains to be the biggest one.

As for not being a fan, pretty sure it's tongue in cheek. I question it sometimes too, how can a fan be in any way okay with having Bergevin still on board here going into year 8. It's mindblowing to me.
But I also know everyone here is a Habs fan.

"No plan" : names a tremendous amount of young talent in the same post

"didn't try to improve the team in the slightest" - added a fourth line center and a third line winger that both contributed tremendously

Ok bud

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Marc Bergevin is maybe the only GM in the world who is somehow praised for the failures of other teams.

On the Habs subreddit they are complaining that the mods aren't allowing them to "celebrate" the Leafs loss and how Bergevin is a genius because the Leafs lost in the 1st round. Explain that one to me.

money for scouting & development went into PR & marketing instead

Bahahahaha

 

[ahmedou]

Marc Bergevin is maybe the only GM in the world who is somehow praised for the failures of other teams.

On the Habs subreddit they are complaining that the mods aren't allowing them to "celebrate" the Leafs loss and how Bergevin is a genius because the Leafs lost in the 1st round. Explain that one to me.

Sports isn't for us...

 

[Habs Halifax]

money for scouting & development went into PR & marketing instead

Bahahahaha

That's what you get when a guy like Molson is the President. It's about money and hockey operations is the GM's job. Molson thinks he does not need to be a authority figure in terms of hockey operations.

The people who hate Bergevin need to put the heat on Molson. Hire a President please!

 

[OldCraig71]

money for scouting & development went into PR & marketing instead

Bahahahaha

I know that your intention is to be funny but I think you might be right. Drouin trade for example was mostly a PR stunt.

 

[Harry22]

That's what you get when a guy like Molson is the President. It's about money and hockey operations is the GM's job. Molson thinks he does not need to be a authority figure in terms of hockey operations.

The people who hate Bergevin need to put the heat on Molson. Hire a President please!

Better idea. Fire Bergevin AND hire a new President.

 

[Pickles]

making stuff up, I see.

As usual.

 

[Pickles]

Well, Subban did make a mistake on standing still like a pylon to allow the Stars on a 3/1 and tie the game. Anyways, Not sure we should bring in Nashville and Subban into the Bergevin thread.

I thought we weren't to meantion Subban in the MB thread.

 

[Pickles]

Houle and Gauthier should not be in the same sentence as Gainey or Bergevin.

Bergevin's biggest bone head move is signing Alzner and not willing to overpay by $1M AAV to keep Radulov. Gainey's bone head move is trading for Gomez which is one of the worse trades in our franchise history. Bergevin is guilty of trading Subban who was the better player for Weber and getting 4 years older. After 3 seasons, this trade is still close value for both teams. Time will tell if this gets one sided but for now, it's not a bad trade.

Fixed

 

[Whitesnake]

Again everyone is just ignoring their evaluations if the team prior to the season

You keep bashing posters. saying how dumb we are and we know nothing and yet....what we thought at the start of the year is relevant?

 

[Whitesnake]

"No plan" : names a tremendous amount of young talent in the same post

"didn't try to improve the team in the slightest" - added a fourth line center and a third line winger that both contributed tremendously

Ok bud

So drafting kids is a plan? Wow, so every team has the same plan? What Kriss E is saying is pretty simple....if Bergie Master plan is that he thinks that the upcoming kids are the plan and that they will put this team in the contender seat, it means that you have to deal with your other players accordingly. If your idea is that you will be relevant in 4-5 years.....are we going to keep all those vets? Shouldn't be drop vets to add even more kids so that in 5 years we would really be strong? Drafting kids is not a plan. What you do with them and how you surround them is.

I'm pretty certain that in the improvements Kriss E is talking about would have been improvement to actually be relevant. Now, Weal and Thompson helped us tremendously by being a team that didn't make the playoffs to a team that almost made the playoffs. Some in here are going to some extent to praise a guy that didn't make the playoffs 3 years out of 4.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I know that your intention is to be funny but I think you might be right. Drouin trade for example was mostly a PR stunt.

I try to be both, buddy, but i often fail.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Marc Bergevin is maybe the only GM in the world who is somehow praised for the failures of other teams.

On the Habs subreddit they are complaining that the mods aren't allowing them to "celebrate" the Leafs loss and how Bergevin is a genius because the Leafs lost in the 1st round. Explain that one to me.

Anything can happen in the playoffs. Another MB special.

 

[ahmedou]

The definition of plan been biased here.

 

[admiralcadillac]

You keep bashing posters. saying how dumb we are and we know nothing and yet....what we thought at the start of the year is relevant?

You’re too sensitive if that’s what you think, not to mention that’s patently false. Being a victim is fun though it’s trendy these days.

So drafting kids is a plan? Wow, so every team has the same plan? What Kriss E is saying is pretty simple....if Bergie Master plan is that he thinks that the upcoming kids are the plan and that they will put this team in the contender seat, it means that you have to deal with your other players accordingly. If your idea is that you will be relevant in 4-5 years.....are we going to keep all those vets? Shouldn't be drop vets to add even more kids so that in 5 years we would really be strong? Drafting kids is not a plan. What you do with them and how you surround them is.

I'm pretty certain that in the improvements Kriss E is talking about would have been improvement to actually be relevant. Now, Weal and Thompson helped us tremendously by being a team that didn't make the playoffs to a team that almost made the playoffs. Some in here are going to some extent to praise a guy that didn't make the playoffs 3 years out of 4.

Read his post, I’m glad we gave nothing up for - whom? Who would we have gotten?

Again they did f***ing get rid of two vets, they may get rid of more. Not all the vets have to leave at the same f***ing time.

It’s like pulling nails here how unable to give anything up you are. I’ve been over these things with you and it’s the same tired old crap that doesn’t see any nuance at all. I get we’re in purgatory but an all or nothing take isn’t necessary, it’s not an obvious dichotomy. There isn’t a rush to get rid of vets without adequate replacements and there certainly is no need be buyers at deadlines. Not to mention that the only reason anyone talks about doing something during the deadline is because a team that traded two of its vets away ended up actually being better than last year and better than anyone expected.

When all else fails I’m an aggressor and you’re all victims

 

[Whitesnake]

You’re too sensitive if that’s what you think, not to mention that’s patently false. Being a victim is fun though it’s trendy these days.

Well you might want to check your account...'cause you clearly have been hacked....

Read his post, I’m glad we gave nothing up for - whom? Who would we have gotten?

Again they did ****ing get rid of two vets, they may get rid of more. Not all the vets have to leave at the same ****ing time.

It’s like pulling nails here how unable to give anything up you are. I’ve been over these things with you and it’s the same tired old crap that doesn’t see any nuance at all. I get we’re in purgatory but an all or nothing take isn’t necessary, it’s not an obvious dichotomy. There isn’t a rush to get rid of vets without adequate replacements and there certainly is no need be buyers at deadlines. Not to mention that the only reason anyone talks about doing something during the deadline is because a team that traded two of its vets away ended up actually being better than last year and better than anyone expected.

When all else fails I’m an aggressor and you’re all victims

How the heck do you want us to know who would we have gotten? Who do you know who was available or not? Who do you think we would not have had? What kind of question is this? This is a GM job to improve. Find a way. Other GM's do. The ones that don't are fired. One day Jackets were dumb for giving up anything.....next day, they are heroes because they beat TBay. BUt then, if the lose against Boston, was that enough...2 rounds while giving a lot? But then if they win......

And then...you don't see how his comment is a general comment about Bergevin? And not just THIS deadline? You don't see how Bergevin do not have a plan and just go with the flow, with a lot of hopes and lot of we never know? All good to do it at the start when you put in place your team....but then you have to know what you have....and in a 5-year plan, that means that in year 5, you know where you are going. Where were we going at year 5? And tell me how that's different at year 7? Because kids are coming? Kids we actually have NO IDEA how they'll pro? Not NHL. Pro. Suzuki hasn't played pro. Poehling has 1 game pro, but he scored 3 goals so he surely is going to win the Calder? Brook played how many pro games? Romanov plays pro in the KHL...but will surely translate right away? So what do we have now to show for? Domi, Kotka, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault and Drouin. That's your top 6 when all is said and done next year. I'm sorry but that WON'T WORK. Too small. Talented but no gamebreakers at all. Then, today, you are still looking for a guy playing with Weber. And the rest of the D is okay. Next year, this team is still just a bubble team. If, as Bergevin said, it could stay the same, there is again no direction but to hope that the kids....most of them didn't play pro, will save us. That's the direction. And somehow, you are fine with that .Makes no sense to me.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Well you might want to check your account...'cause you clearly have been hacked....




How the heck do you want us to know who would we have gotten? Who do you know who was available or not? Who do you think we would not have had? What kind of question is this? This is a GM job to improve. Find a way. Other GM's do. The ones that don't are fired. One day Jackets were dumb for giving up anything.....next day, they are heroes because they beat TBay. BUt then, if the lose against Boston, was that enough...2 rounds while giving a lot? But then if they win......

And then...you don't see how his comment is a general comment about Bergevin? And not just THIS deadline? You don't see how Bergevin do not have a plan and just go with the flow, with a lot of hopes and lot of we never know? All good to do it at the start when you put in place your team....but then you have to know what you have....and in a 5-year plan, that means that in year 5, you know where you are going. Where were we going at year 5? And tell me how that's different at year 7? Because kids are coming? Kids we actually have NO IDEA how they'll pro? Not NHL. Pro. Suzuki hasn't played pro. Poehling has 1 game pro, but he scored 3 goals so he surely is going to win the Calder? Brook played how many pro games? Romanov plays pro in the KHL...but will surely translate right away? So what do we have now to show for? Domi, Kotka, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault and Drouin. That's your top 6 when all is said and done next year. I'm sorry but that WON'T WORK. Too small. Talented but no gamebreakers at all. Then, today, you are still looking for a guy playing with Weber. And the rest of the D is okay. Next year, this team is still just a bubble team. If, as Bergevin said, it could stay the same, there is again no direction but to hope that the kids....most of them didn't play pro, will save us. That's the direction. And somehow, you are fine with that .Makes no sense to me.

This post is a bunch of random stuff make a point please! His post is utterly different from the interpretation you're now giving it. I'm not interested in reading your walls of incoherent stuff.

I don't see anything contradicting or arguing what I'm saying at all in there.