Marc Bergevin: Draft? Edition (XIV)

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

For those who can read french, it's an interesting read on how our development sucks for a while.

Un ancien expert du développement malmène le CH - TVA Sports

Been saying that for years.

Every trait of a hockey player can be worked upon. The succes of which is tightly related to the awareness of the coaches in both psychology and the needed physical skills/attributes/techniques to develop, but also proper strategies employed to benefit the player's development in those areas.

If any team is wishing to have an advantage over others, this is the area where there is still much to learn for the league at large. Even teams who have good development programs, probably only scratch at the surface of what is possible.

 

[The Great Weal]

"
Là où le CH a échoué avec Michael McCarron, les Maple Leafs peuvent dire mission accomplie avec Frédérik Gauthier. Ce dernier se devait d’améliorer considérablement son coup de patin pour atteindre la LNH. Il a eu droit à plusieurs suivis avec l’ancienne championne mondiale de patinage artistique Barbara Underhill.
«Au lieu d’être quelqu’un qui joue dans la Ligue américaine, maintenant, c’est un joueur de centre défensif très potable dans la LNH. Ça a fait toute la différence pour lui», note Han. "

Ownage.

What do you think, @The Great Weise ?

Never denied that the Habs suck at developing, but I think drafting a 4th liner(best case) instead of a stud dman who went with the very next pick is a terrible decision by Timmins. I'm sure he will blame it on something and have an excuse for it though. In fact, he already has, he said they wanted to draft by size.

Same thing with Tinordi. He should have been a bottom pairing dman, but Hayes and Kuzy went right after and one is a top 6 player while the other is a superstar.

 

[Milhouse40]

Never denied that the Habs suck at developing, but I think drafting a 4th liner(best case) instead of a stud dman who went with the very next pick is a terrible decision by Timmins. I'm sure he will blame it on something and have an excuse for it though. In fact, he already has, he said they wanted to draft by size.

Same thing with Tinordi. He should have been a bottom pairing dman, but Hayes and Kuzy went right after and one is a top 6 player while the other is a superstar.

I think everything start at the very top.

Bergevin is all about Character....always were, always will be.
That affected the draft since that's what their looking for it.

Also in development, Rob Ramage and Francis Bouillon are our development coaches.
I don't think any of them should be there….but I'm sure they are a great example of "character".

 

[ahmedou]

 

[Deebs]

I wonder if we might be able to snag one of Drysdale, Raymond or Sanderson of we stay where we are currently slotted.

 

[ahmedou]

#TheBergyPlan

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

#TheBergyPlan

View attachment 349049

What a f***ing visionary this man Can't believe people are finding ways to give him credit, what a piss poor excuse for a roster almost 10 years in the making. Pathetic, just pathetic.

 

[ahmedou]

What a f***ing visionary this man Can't believe people are finding ways to give him credit, what a piss poor excuse for a roster almost 10 years in the making. Pathetic, just pathetic.

A devil disguised into a moron...

 

[WeThreeKings]

#TheBergyPlan

View attachment 349049

If he trades one or both of those players, we are firmly in the lottery with better odds than before.

 

[ahmedou]

If he trades one or both of those players, we are firmly in the lottery with better odds than before.

He's a contrarian. Still doing the opposite of what the society tells him to do. His thinking is short-sighted and narrow-minded.

 

[calder candidate]

Been saying that for years.

Every trait of a hockey player can be worked upon. The succes of which is tightly related to the awareness of the coaches in both psychology and the needed physical skills/attributes/techniques to develop, but also proper strategies employed to benefit the player's development in those areas.

If any team is wishing to have an advantage over others, this is the area where there is still much to learn for the league at large. Even teams who have good development programs, probably only scratch at the surface of what is possible.

To me it becoming evident that even if their is genetic and 17 years of learning that has already been done any skills can be developed & improve and teams just aren’t willing to put the time and the effort$. Or the leaders of these organizations just don’t see or understand the value and just see player has disposable.

 

[ahmedou]

Canadiens Questionable Draft Performance under Bergevin

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Canadiens Questionable Draft Performance under Bergevin

What a lot of us have already realized. Bad crop of prospects when he got the job, bad development teams when he was in charge and still today same problems. Must be the reason he still has a job, to make good on all of his poor performances.

 

[ahmedou]

 

[BLONG7]

View attachment 349191

An amazing GM, building the 24th place team. Sam Pollock would be proud...?

 

[Habs Icing]

Canadiens Questionable Draft Performance under Bergevin

Not a bad article. There are some points I would dispute (i.e. calling Drouin an impactful player) but I will concede I may be biased. However, the writer is playing a shell game. MB has next to nothing to do with the drafts and many draft-day videos have shown this. THe article should be pointing a finger at the man in charge of drafting: TT. I'll admit MB is ultimately responsible because he hasn't fired him.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Not a bad article. There are some points I would dispute (i.e. calling Drouin an impactful player) but I will concede I may be biased. However, the writer is playing a shell game. MB has next to nothing to do with the drafts and many draft-day videos have shown this. THe article should be pointing a finger at the man in charge of drafting: TT. I'll admit MB is ultimately responsible because he hasn't fired him.

1- those draft videos saying TT is in charge, are all post july 2017, after he got promoted to AGM.

2- it is clear to see something was holding back Timmins pre-2017 compared to his years with Gainey, as the period 2003-2008 was far more fruitful than 2012-2017.

3- you really think Timmins wanted those big men he drafted in the first round under Bergevin? It's not even his type of player.

4- A team drafting for need is not doing so on the behest of their drafting staff. Teams that draft for need, do it because that's what management decides. 2012, need. Both Bergevin and Timmins seemed to have other favorites in that draft. One of them stated, as with KK, that it was about need. With Bergevin stating getting Drouin "cetait important de rapatrier un quebecois", from whom do you think Bergevin is getting that marching order? Molson seems to be very hands down, so no wonder they draft by need. Seems typical from such a clueless owner. McCarron, also stated as a need not a BPA.

So which is it, are you really going to pretend TT decides to go with need? He might have the final word now, but did he then?

As far as I'm concerned, leadership starts at the top and Timmins seems to be doing better when he has good leadership or is given free reign.

All that aside, we need a new president, or at least a strong buffer between Molson and hockey operations, Bergevin needs to go and Timmins, he needs to to go back to scouting dmen only and leave the rest to other scouts.

You don't seem to appreciate just how pissed Timmins was in 2016 when MB traded away picks he wanted to use on at least Girard, if not Debrincat also as he was pretty high on TT's list.

Bad leadership trickles down, that's it, that's all.

 

[Habs Icing]

1- those draft videos saying TT is in charge, are all post july 2017, after he got promoted to AGM.

2- it is clear to see something was holding back Timmins pre-2017 compared to his years with Gainey, as the period 2003-2008 was far more fruitful than 2012-2017.

3- you really think Timmins wanted those big men he drafted in the first round under Bergevin? It's not even his type of player.

4- A team drafting for need is not doing so on the behest of their drafting staff. Teams that draft for need, do it because that's what management decides. 2012, need. Both Bergevin and Timmins seemed to have other favorites in that draft. One of them stated, as with KK, that it was about need. With Bergevin stating getting Drouin "cetait important de rapatrier un quebecois", from whom do you think Bergevin is getting that marching order? Molson seems to be very hands down, so no wonder they draft by need. Seems typical from such a clueless owner. McCarron, also stated as a need not a BPA.

So which is it, are you really going to pretend TT decides to go with need? He might have the final word now, but did he then?

As far as I'm concerned, leadership starts at the top and Timmins seems to be doing better when he has good leadership or is given free reign.

All that aside, we need a new president, or at least a strong buffer between Molson and hockey operations, Bergevin needs to go and Timmins, he needs to to go back to scouting dmen only and leave the rest to other scouts.

You don't seem to appreciate just how pissed Timmins was in 2016 when MB traded away picks he wanted to use on at least Girard, if not Debrincat also as he was pretty high on TT's list.

Bad leadership trickles down, that's it, that's all.

Basically, you're just speculating. On the other hand, we have both MB and Timmins coming out and saying that Bergevin wanted Rielly in the 2012 draft but allowed his scouting team to do their thing. Also, TT's record pre-2012 is quite abysmal if not for the 2007 draft. One has only to look at how he botched up the 2003 draft. Selecting Andre K and leaving a bevy of superstars on the table.

In no way does this excuse MB's record as a GM. However, I like placing responsibility where it deserves to be. TT for shit picks and MB for keeping this incompetent worker.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Basically, you're just speculating.

You were doing the same thing. Difference is, I just brought more insights to try to paint a picture.

Tell me again, does drafting staff decide team needs? How can it be Timmins fault in the first rounds if he's shackled having to draft for need?

Howcome his rate is better in later rounds?

Do you deny Molson seems very hands down?

I'm all for a full house cleaning, but we'd be making a mistake letting Timmins's talent at drafting Ds go elsewhere.

The rest of what you said is just cherry picking gibberish, no real objective analysis of what he did, just your bias.

Btw, you count pre-2012, I count pre-2009, cuz that's when Molson came in and surprise surprise, Louis Leblanc.

 

[DAChampion]

You were doing the same thing. Difference is, I just brought more insights to try to paint a picture.

Tell me again, does drafting staff decide team needs? How can it be Timmins fault in the first rounds if he's shackled having to draft for need?

Howcome his rate is better in later rounds?

Do you deny Molson seems very hands down?

I'm all for a full house cleaning, but we'd be making a mistake letting Timmins's talent at drafting Ds go elsewhere.

The rest of what you said is just cherry picking gibberish, no real objective analysis of what he did, just your bias.

Btw, you count pre-2012, I count pre-2009, cuz that's when Molson came in and surprise surprise, Louis Leblanc.

Leblanc was the consensus BPA at his draft position, and was developing fabulously until Bergevin and Lefebvre showed up.

Gainey was also obsessed with finding centers at the time. He swung hard for Lecavalier, Sundin, and Gomez. He signed Engvist and Johansson, he drafted five centers with seven picks that draft.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Leblanc was the consensus BPA at his draft position, and was developing fabulously until Bergevin and Lefebvre showed up.

Gainey was also obsessed with finding centers at the time. He swung hard for Lecavalier, Sundin, and Gomez. He signed Engvist and Johansson, he drafted five centers with seven picks that draft.

It still wasnt Timmins' pick. Probably ownership's. And yeah, I remember him playing well two way in his first stint. He was indeed mishandled. As was Tinordi.

 

[DAChampion]

It still wasnt Timmins' pick. Probably ownership's. And yeah, I remember him playing well two way in his first stint. He was indeed mishandled. As was Tinordi.

Timmins' list was actually captured by a photographer, and Leblanc ranked highly on his list.

 

[Big Empty]

Sergachev and Radulov were both Habs in 2016-17. That seems crazy to think about now.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Timmins' list was actually captured by a photographer, and Leblanc ranked highly on his list.

Being high on his list doesn't necessarily equal being his pick. There were other players high on his list.

 

[smirob]

10 picks last yer, 14 picks this year, 11 next year....we need to get quality over quantity at this point.

Either a: trade picks to move up in the draft or b: trade picks to next years (1, 2, 3) to offset the loss of picks is he can pull off an offer sheet.