Marc Bergevin: Draft 2020 (XVI)

[Hins77]

What been the real problem with Bergevin was he began like a new GM without experience. Honestly i found he improved a lot since the beggining. To build a winning franchise. Its begin with « assets », « draft picks ». This is the base of a winning club. With those asset, you can swetten a trade if you want to win now or these asset become a suprise and will become a roster player. Whats happened for the first 4/5 years of Bergevin era. He had none. Some first pick. Not a lot of 2nd pick. And not a big numbers of picks overall. Since 3 years. They had a lot of draft picks. For exemple. Pittsburgh will be in big trouble sooner than later if they won’t trade for assets/draft picks. The moment malkkin/crosby become worse. Thats the begginning of a long rebuild. Right now for Montreal. I think, the main problem is. Our young core doesnt progress or doesnt « grow » as much fast than our old core decline. The problem with Bergevin. We never knew if he was a buyers or a sellers. However, he build a really strong draft picks base / assets. So if there is a next GM. He will have plenty of choice and should be in great position. Just look Tanpa. They been at the top of the hill and rhey had a lot of draft picks/assets. Thats the way to build. If you are wash in those area. You will have a long rebuild to do

 

[HabsQC]

If Bergevin gets canned at the end of the year, is it time for Patrick Roy to take over ?

 

[Miller Time]

Wouldn't you agree that Bergevin had a great offseason?

By what standard would you measure that?

Our points percentage is up from .500 to .529... Increase, yes, but also reflecting a very strong start. With a coaching change & games every other night until the end of the year, unlikely that we'll see the team maintain that increase.

And this after using up considerable short & long term cap space and trading away two top-90 picks to "improve" the team.

I don't quite see how it is that you evaluate this "great" offseason?

Yes, he did a lot of things.
Thus far, the immediate return has been poor even by his own, low, standards (so much so that he already fired the coach).

We have Petry, Gallagher, Anderson, Edmundson extended long term, yet our defense remains a weakness & Gally's extension will pay him to perform at a much higher level than he's showing currently.

No high picks added.
No elite prospects or youth added.
Recent former 1st round pick lost to waivers.

Still a borderline playoff team.

So, yeah, legit curious of what logic or standards you are working from to qualify this past offseason as "great"?

 

[Miller Time]

What been the real problem with Bergevin was he began like a new GM without experience. Honestly i found he improved a lot since the beggining. To build a winning franchise. Its begin with « assets », « draft picks ». This is the base of a winning club. With those asset, you can swetten a trade if you want to win now or these asset become a suprise and will become a roster player. Whats happened for the first 4/5 years of Bergevin era. He had none. Some first pick. Not a lot of 2nd pick. And not a big numbers of picks overall. Since 3 years. They had a lot of draft picks. For exemple. Pittsburgh will be in big trouble sooner than later if they won’t trade for assets/draft picks. The moment malkkin/crosby become worse. Thats the begginning of a long rebuild. Right now for Montreal. I think, the main problem is. Our young core doesnt progress or doesnt « grow » as much fast than our old core decline. The problem with Bergevin. We never knew if he was a buyers or a sellers. However, he build a really strong draft picks base / assets. So if there is a next GM. He will have plenty of choice and should be in great position. Just look Tanpa. They been at the top of the hill and rhey had a lot of draft picks/assets. Thats the way to build. If you are wash in those area. You will have a long rebuild to do

False narrative.
By 2014, Habs had a top-5 rated prospect pool.

The on ice performance of the team was significantly better in the first part of his tenure. As he's gained experience and the roster became entirely his creation, the on ice performance has plummeted.

Try again.

 

[bcv]

If Bergevin gets canned at the end of the year, is it time for Patrick Roy to take over ?

I think he's too hot headed, but the Habs don't have that many choices of candidates that speaks french.

I think Mathieu Darche would be a good pick-up. Not a lot of experience in hockey management but he's a really smart dude that absolutely loves the Habs.

 

[HabsQC]

I think he's too hot headed, but the Habs don't have that many choices of candidates that speaks french.

I think Mathieu Darche would be a good pick-up. Not a lot of experience in hockey management but he's a really smart dude that absolutely loves the Habs.

Seriously, who else is a candidate ? Damphousse ?

At this point Id give the club to Roy and let him do his hot head thing for a few years see where that leads us.

 

[expy]

Seriously, who else is a candidate ? Damphousse ?

At this point Id give the club to Roy and let him do his hot head thing for a few years see where that leads us.

This is why the team will continue to struggle, the non-hockey filter on staff decisions.

 

[Hins77]

False narrative.
By 2014, Habs had a top-5 rated prospect pool.

The on ice performance of the team was significantly better in the first part of his tenure. As he's gained experience and the roster became entirely his creation, the on ice performance has plummeted.

Try again.

U should change your username for craig button then, instead of miller time. To know that they had the best prospect pool. In fact, He didnt help the team right now He doesnt want to win now. He never took the decision to give asset for winning when weber and price were in their prime. When you try it and you arent able. You clean the house. Sor your have to trade price and weber for asset and the weel turn.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

This is why the team will continue to struggle, the non-hockey filter on staff decisions.

It's crazy.. Darche, Damphousse, Roy... ffs

 

[Miller Time]

U should change your username for craig button then, instead of miller time. To know that they had the best prospect pool. In fact, He didnt help the team right now He doesnt want to win now. He never took the decision to give asset for winning when weber and price were in their prime. When you try it and you arent able. You clean the house. Sor your have to trade price and weber for asset and the weel turn.

I know Craig, very nice man, appreciate the compliment.

But no, that assessment isn't my own, it was made by several publications which annually rank prospect pools.

Obviously, prospect rankings are just that, rankings... Not a given to flourish. But this BS narrative that the team had bare cupboards is not supported by the facts.

What is factual, is that the roster MB inherited, with minor tweaks (Prust, Armstrong, bouillon, Briere, Parros Murray et.) was vastly more successful than the rosters that he's assembled through the latter stages of his 9 year tenure. He took a roster & prospect pool with potential and turned it into a lottery team... And now, after 4-5 years of non-playoff seasons (with the higher picks & prospect accumulation any GM would have to show for it), he's once again icing a roster that will struggle to reach the playoffs, despite being cap spending.

Brutal management.

 

[Hannibal]

Migth be a rare one, but i like Bergevin as GM. I would be sad to see him gone after that good offseason because price can’t stop shit.

the elephant in the room is Timmins.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

I know Craig, very nice man, appreciate the compliment.

But no, that assessment isn't my own, it was made by several publications which annually rank prospect pools.

Obviously, prospect rankings are just that, rankings... Not a given to flourish. But this BS narrative that the team had bare cupboards is not supported by the facts.

What is factual, is that the roster MB inherited, with minor tweaks (Prust, Armstrong, bouillon, Briere, Parros Murray et.) was vastly more successful than the rosters that he's assembled through the latter stages of his 9 year tenure. He took a roster & prospect pool with potential and turned it into a lottery team... And now, after 4-5 years of non-playoff seasons (with the higher picks & prospect accumulation any GM would have to show for it), he's once again icing a roster that will struggle to reach the playoffs, despite being cap spending.

Brutal management.

You forget the 2021-2025 era: The time where Habs are cap strapped by a mediocre, perpetually declining, aging core where assets who could have fetch a reasonable return years ago are lost on the UFA market or just turn into negative value assets, all the while keeping on with the suckage thanks to Da Berg.

We can only hope that our prospect pool his as promising as sold by expert on the subject, because the future isn't bright in Montreal right now.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Migth be a rare one, but i like Bergevin as GM. I would be sad to see him gone after that good offseason because price can’t stop shit.

the elephant in the room is Timmins.

The elephant in the room is Price

 

[dkd]

The elephant in the room is Price

A 10.5M/y elephant.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Migth be a rare one, but i like Bergevin as GM. I would be sad to see him gone after that good offseason because price can’t stop shit.

the elephant in the room is Timmins.

Bergevin has been doing better ever since Timmins was promoted AGM.

We have no idea of the dynamics of decision making, but the fact Timmins' worst drafting sequence coincides with the first 5 years of Bergevin's tenure (08-11, he had half the picks and drafted low) tells me Bergevin gave Timmins the wrong priorities in what to draft.

Now changing Timmins, for the draft, is a good idea, but keeping Bergevin is profoundly idiotic. The man can't plan shit and is stuck in perceptions of the game of a bygone era.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

You forget the 2021-2025 era: The time where Habs are cap strapped by a mediocre, perpetually declining, aging core where assets who could have fetch a reasonable return years ago are lost on the UFA market or just turn into negative value assets, all the while keeping on with the suckage thanks to Da Berg.

We can only hope that our prospect pool his as promising as sold by expert on the subject, because the future isn't bright in Montreal right now.

A lot of us have been predicting this.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The elephant in the room is Price

Yup

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Bergevin just killed this offseason, he's going nowhere even if this team misses the PO IMO.

He sold a new plan to Jeff and he'll get an extension ... .

I agree he'll be back next year no matter what, but no way in hell has he earned an extension until some form of results show up. If he misses the PO in a 7 team division with three bad teams, Molson can't offer an extension on principle.

 

[Tighthead]

Migth be a rare one, but i like Bergevin as GM. I would be sad to see him gone after that good offseason because price can’t stop shit.

the elephant in the room is Timmins.

So you have a problem with Timmins, but support his superior who had retained, endorsed and even promoted him year in, year out. If MB doesn’t have a problem with him, MB is the problem.

 

[Doc McKenna]

The elephant in the room is Price

And a pile of mid level pay dman playing at bottom line potential. Or that weber is a boat anchor most nights and we still have no fix for the LD after 4 years.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Is this the end for Bargain bin? Are we finally there?

Thing is, Molson'll probably hire someone just as bad.

 

[Hins77]

If montreal arent able to make it this year arround weber/price. They will never be. So at the deadline. It depens how will be the team. But you have to clean the house if that team is playing like right now. Clean the house mean. Giving weber/price/tatar/byron/chiarot. For picks and prospects. You probably wont be able to throw all of them, but you need to do it. I meAn these guys are well paid into a bad team.. thats unnaceptable.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The end is nigh

 

[Censored Toad]

Is this the end for Bargain bin? Are we finally there?

Thing is, Molson'll probably hire someone just as bad.

Agreed if Marc is walking but.......

Two scenarios:
1) This is our last year of bargin bin, he doesn't resign him as a GM and instead moves him to head of Player muscle development and style (purple pants). He would be very good for this job based on credentials!)
2) Marc gets resigned as GM and we are stuck with him for another 4-5 years.

Honestly option 2 is more likely now IMO. We have Covid to distract people that the habs suck, you won't have the same optics of fans in paper bags , jerseys being tossed on the ice, boo-ing and empty seats etc so not as much heat IMO.
Many folks are just happy to have hockey on, and they can rage all they want on HF or reddit but unless one of you is tied to the habs PR organization feeding info the habs brass, its pretty quiet.

Therefore I think Marc stays on despite his lack of results. Hes already sold GEoffy that he's the man... he can sell him again.

Either way, I think Marc stays in some manner with the habs org. Option two seems more likely to me.

 

[covfefe]

You forget the 2021-2025 era: The time where Habs are cap strapped by a mediocre, perpetually declining, aging core where assets who could have fetch a reasonable return years ago are lost on the UFA market or just turn into negative value assets, all the while keeping on with the suckage thanks to Da Berg.

We can only hope that our prospect pool his as promising as sold by expert on the subject, because the future isn't bright in Montreal right now.

It’s not. We have 1 legit FW prospect and he’s not a sure thing, as much as I love him...

We also have one of the worst in the business running our draft process. Our 1st round record is abysmal and we top it off with our eternal struggle to attract FA talent. Tough churn to get out of.