Marc Bergevin: Draft 2020 (XVI)

[Belial]

Kotkaniemi and Suzuki need to be playing more. Danault is not the answer so ride and die with the kids and let them fine their niche!

You go full youngsters like Ottawa when you have 0 expectations.

They try to be competitive while developing youngsters.

 

[Habs13]

You go full youngsters like Ottawa when you have 0 expectations.

They try to be competitive while developing youngsters.

I'd rather lose with the kids that will gain experience than lose with the vets that aren't going anywhere. Ottawa will surpass Montreal in the standings by years end also.

 

[Belial]

I'd rather lose with the kids that will gain experience than lose with the vets that aren't going anywhere. Ottawa will surpass Montreal in the standings by years end also.

We'll see, when you develop kids in a losing environment it seems to keep going forever...

Look at Buffalo, even Oilers...

 

[Habs13]

We'll see, when you develop kids in a losing environment it seems to keep going forever...

Look at Buffalo, even Oilers...

Oilers always blew my mind... they had so many good picks over the years and nothing ever came from it. Pittsburgh did well with their kids though. Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Letang.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

We'll see, when you develop kids in a losing environment it seems to keep going forever...

Look at Buffalo, even Oilers...

Montreal environnement for the past couple of season has been a losing one as far as I know. Montreal isn't winning with this core, and while some of our assets won't fetch us the same return they could have 2-3 season ago, we are still in a position to make a solid rebuild if we trade most of what is over 27 on this team. I just don't trust our scouting staff to build a strong futur core throught the draft.

 

[Belial]

Montreal environnement for the past couple of season has been a losing one as far as I know. Montreal isn't winning with this core, and while some of our assets won't fetch us the same return they could have 2-3 season ago, we are still in a position to make a solid rebuild if we trade most of what is over 27 on this team. I just don't trust our scouting staff to build a strong futur core throught the draft.

This team was rebuilt, Suzuki and KK are those building blocks going forward..

 

[GrandmaCookie]

This team was rebuilt, Suzuki and KK are those building blocks going forward..

No it was not. We need elite talent. We had the same core for long enough now; it has been tried and it's not producing result. No point in keep trying the same past date product. If franchise such as Toronto and Detroit can go through a real rebuild, how come we can't? We will keep being a bubble team for ever if we don't stop trying to patch holes and change the mediocre philosophy of this organization that is to "aim for the playoff and see what goes". Stop spending on long term contract to mid-tier player. Build an elite core through the draft. It's what Pit did, what Was did, what Chicago did, what Toronto did and let's not act like Ottawa and Edmonton doesn't have a bright futur right now. Buffalo is an outlier. Most team who draft elite talent end up succeeding. Now is the time to sell ou declining assets while we still can.

 

[Belial]

No it was not. We need elite talent. We had the same core for long enough now; it has been tried and it's not producing result. No point in keep trying the same past date product. If franchise such as Toronto and Detroit can go through a real rebuild, how come we can't? We will keep being a bubble team for ever if we don't stop trying to patch holes and change the mediocre philosophy of this organization that is to "aim for the playoff and see what goes". Stop spending on long term contract to mid-tier player. Build an elite core through the draft. It's what Pit did, what Was did, what Chicago did, what Toronto did and let's not act like Ottawa and Edmonton doesn't have a bright futur right now. Buffalo is an outlier. Most team who draft elite talent end up succeeding. Now is the time to sell ou declining assets while we still can.

Yeah... The reality of the league changed... With the lottery thing in place, Tanking seems like the worst thing you could do...

KK is 20 and Nick is 21 , just give them some time...

I think a lot of fans set the bar too high too soon.

I think even Bergevin himself got ahead of the plan...

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Yeah... The reality of the league changed... With the lottery thing in place, Tanking seems like the worst thing you could do...

KK is 20 and Nick is 21 , just give them some time...

I think a lot of fans set the bar too high too soon.

I think even Bergevin himself got ahead of the plan...

Two top 6 forward prospect and a Romanov doesn't make a contender.

What plan has Bergvin got himself ahead of? The one were we are crippled with 33+ years old , overpaid, underperforming low value assets? Do you really think this core (Weber, Tatar, Price, Gallagher,Danault) is getting better next year?

You can still build through the draft by aquiring picks for declining assets. Look at Ottawa, probably has the best prospect pool of the league right now minus LA while being unlucky at the lottery.

 

[Belial]

Two top 6 forward prospect and a Romanov doesn't make a contender.

What plan has Bergvin got himself ahead of? The one were we are crippled with 33+ years old , overpaid, underperforming low value assets? Do you really think this core (Weber, Tatar, Price, Gallagher,Danault) is getting better next year?

You can still build through the draft by aquiring picks for declining assets. Look at Ottawa, probably has the best prospect pool of the league right now minus LA while being unlucky at the lottery.

I don't think Weber and Price are done.

The plan was that KK and Suzuki will take over but they're not there yet so we're kinda struggling...

 

[GrandmaCookie]

I don't think Weber and Price are done.

The plan was that KK and Suzuki will take over but they're not yet so we're kinda struggling...

At the price we are paying our core players and for the term they have, it's clear the plan was to rely on them to make "damage" in the playoffs as Bergevin said. If he didn't trust his vets he wouldn't have went all in like he did this offseason.

It's clear the goal was not to let young take over or he wouldn't have offer Danault that contract.

Bergevin is now stuck with a declining core which he put far too much trust on, refusing to rebuild probably because he knew he effed up and Molson wouldn't let him go through another full rebuild. It is now or never for him, and the reason why he needs to be let go. He had assets and a high pick when he came in and couldn't build a contending core. Now this core is getting older and is underperforming, his mission has fail. There is no plan for him, he is barely keeping his head out of the water.

This organisation needs a real change of mentality and fast because in 2-3 year it will already be too late for a real rebuild. Our assets our losing value by the week now. Just imagine what we could have had for Price and Weber two or three years ago.

 

[Belial]

At the price we are paying our core players and for the term they have, it's clear the plan was to rely on them to make "damage" in the playoffs as Bergevin said. If he didn't trust his vets he wouldn't have went all in like he did this offseason.

It's clear the goal was not to let young take over or he wouldn't have offer Danault that contract.

Bergevin is now stuck with a declining core which he put far too much trust on, refusing to rebuild probably because he knew he effed up and Molson wouldn't let him go through another full rebuild. It is now or never for him, and the reason why he needs to be let go. He had assets and a high pick when he came in and couldn't build a contending core. Now this core is getting older and is underperforming, his mission has fail. There is no plan for him, he is barely keeping his head out of the water.

This organisation needs a real change of mentality and fast because in 2-3 year it will already be too late for a real rebuild. Our assets our losing value by the week now. Just imagine what we could have had for Price and Weber two or three years ago.

Bergevin just killed this offseason, he's going nowhere even if this team misses the PO IMO.

He sold a new plan to Jeff and he'll get an extension ... .

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Bergevin just killed this offseason, he's going nowhere even if this team misses the PO IMO.

He sold a new plan to Jeff and he'll get an extension ... .

The problem is Jeff then. We are truly f***ed has a fanbase if that is the case.

 

[Belial]

The problem is Jeff then. We are truly f***ed has a fanbase if that is the case.

Wouldn't you agree that Bergevin had a great offseason?

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Wouldn't you agree that Bergevin had a great offseason?

Bergevin had a "great" off season in the sense that he acquired solid complementary player. But those are the moves you make when you already have a solid core in place. Bergevin failed in his primary mission has a GM: Building a solid, long lasting core.

He did like his unsuccessful predecessor did before him: Patching hole. But this time, he did it on steroid. It still doesn't adresses our alarming need of elite talent.

And he won't be able to constantly make those upgrade since he is now cap strapped. What is gonna start to happen is that he will start loosing assets for nothing since he won't be able to afford them, and our rebuilding opportunity are gonna close.

Price and Weber already start to have negative value. Tatar, Danault and Armia might be let go this off season. Petry is getting older.

Habs next GM will be screwed.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

GM of the year...
Won the offseason...
Wins all his trades...
amiright

El Maestro

 

[expy]

Wouldn't you agree that Bergevin had a great offseason?

After having destroyed the team he inherited, it's not a great accomplishment to improve it when it's practically hit rock bottom.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Yeah... The reality of the league changed... With the lottery thing in place, Tanking seems like the worst thing you could do...

The reality of the league remains the same, drafting high is still the best and quickest way to get elite talent to build long term, especially in our case with our lack of success at signing elite free agents.

KK is 20 and Nick is 21 , just give them some time...

If we can't compete right now with them, then we need to build with them.

I think a lot of fans set the bar too high too soon.

You mean, the GM, is who has done that because time is running out while cummulating failures. I mean, seriously, you're always pumping Bergy's tires, so you shouldn't talk. Also... IT'S BEEN 9 FRIGGIN YEARS, and we're in this situation because there's a whole bunch like you that have low expectations that the Habs finances strive on.

I think even Bergevin himself got ahead of the plan...

Here you go again

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Wouldn't you agree that Bergevin had a great offseason?

In the offseason, sure. It's like draft day grades... You don't know what you have until it's time to show up.

The franchise under MB has been incredibly poor, I can't fathom how someone like yourself, who watches every game can have faith in this man. The team he had when he was hired was an enigma. Similar to what you said above about KK and Suzuki is what the Habs had with Galchenyuk, Gallagher and Beaulieu. With Subban, Pacioretty and Price all being 25 or younger that season.

The team looked terrible with the changes PG did for the 11-12 season and the Markov injury was a disaster. Here comes 2013 with some new pieces and did they overachieve in 2013 or did they very much underachieve in 2011-12 (Remember the make up of that D was an NHL rookie in Emelin and Diaz, 2nd year Subban. Gill fell off a cliff, Kaberle was a fraud, Weber was Weber. And then you had Goerges, your most reliable D... That says a lot about the make up of the D for 11-12.

So MB took that failure of a team, got Markov back, added Franky B with Emelin no longer a rookie and Norris trophy winning Subban. He tried to build on that in 13-14 with Vanek... But then everything fell apart.

14-15 was a nasty playoffs, beating up Hammond only to get embarrassed against TB

15-16 was so pathetic. People talk about the Price injury, but the team played so bad after the injury.

16-17 with Radulov was fun, but scoring all of 11 goals in 6 playoff games shows the consistency this team has had with their inability to score goals in the playoffs (from the 14-15 playoff against TB and the 2 games against Anderson)

17-18 another disaster

18-19 a slight resurgence but the team just missed out

19-20 another collapse, saved by the pandemic and the play-in.

20-21 with an "amazing" off-season, but yet again the results aren't there.

It's time to get rid of MB and let someone else take the nice pieces he brought in (don't act like the previous regime left the cupboard entirely bare, while no bluechip prospects in the system, they players were already on the team) to take this team to the next level. It's clear MB is not the right man to build a winning team. Win a trade, sure. Build a winning team? 9 years and the only pieces he brought in for that winning team was Galchenyuk, Prust, Briere, Vanek, Weise, Weaver, Bouillon. Not exactly like he changed the team he inherited in time for that 13-14 season.

It's time.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

If we can't compete right now with them, then we need to build with them.

Trade Armia, Tatar, Danault, Weber and Price. If we are building, what good is it to ice a semi-competitive team. Go one way or the other, I don't care. I want this team to have a direction and again this year further proof this GM is a completely... He goes all in on free agents, does a good job, but the results remain the same. Change approach or change personal (already done with the coach, next has to be MB)

 

[badi]

Its gonna be fun in 10 years listening to Bergevin and of year presser saying .... ITS ON ME

 

[1909]

IMO he will be gone before the trade deadline - Timmins as interim GM.

Might see MB pull a Rutherford move and 'Step Down'

OMG ! The guy who indirectly destroyed this franchise by his poor drafting record !

 

[Andy]

Wouldn't you agree that Bergevin had a great offseason?

Sometimes chefs get great deals on expensive ingredients. If the chef doesn't put those ingredients together to make a meal worth eating, then it doesn't really matter how cheap he got them for.

The whole matters, not the individual micro transactions.

MB has overhauled the core twice, has fired two coaches and has seen his team get worse the more he gets rid of players he inherited.

There is no more excuses if he fails again this year. If he misses the playoffs this year, that will be 4 misses in 6 years. One of the two playoff births came because of a tournament, otherwise the Habs would have missed again.

I'm no habs history buff, but I'm pretty sure MB will be at the helm for one of the worst 6 year streaks in Habs history. It's one thing if the current team is one he inherited, but this is the team HE built.

The only success MB has had as a GM was with a core he inherited. They've gotten worse as that core has aged/shipped away. It's going to be 9 years he's with the club. No more excuses.

I'm still holding out hope that this is a rough patch. On paper this should be a playoff team, but maybe I'm as wrong as MB is. The difference is I'm not in charge.

If the habs miss, he needs to go. Period. No one gets to rebuild a club 3 times in a market like the habs.

 

[dinodebino]

Bergevin just killed this offseason, he's going nowhere even if this team misses the PO IMO.

He sold a new plan to Jeff and he'll get an extension ... .

That is what I'm expecting too.

 

[EXPOS123]

Sometimes chefs get great deals on expensive ingredients. If the chef doesn't put those ingredients together to make a meal worth eating, then it doesn't really matter how cheap he got them for.

The whole matters, not the individual micro transactions.

MB has overhauled the core twice, has fired two coaches and has seen his team get worse the more he gets rid of players he inherited.

There is no more excuses if he fails again this year. If he misses the playoffs this year, that will be 4 misses in 6 years. One of the two playoff births came because of a tournament, otherwise the Habs would have missed again.

I'm no habs history buff, but I'm pretty sure MB will be at the helm for one of the worst 6 year streaks in Habs history. It's one thing if the current team is one he inherited, but this is the team HE built.

The only success MB has had as a GM was with a core he inherited. They've gotten worse as that core has aged/shipped away. It's going to be 9 years he's with the club. No more excuses.

I'm still holding out hope that this is a rough patch. On paper this should be a playoff team, but maybe I'm as wrong as MB is. The difference is I'm not in charge.

If the habs miss, he needs to go. Period. No one gets to rebuild a club 3 times in a market like the habs.

Your last sentence is incorrect and actually sums up the problem of the past 10 years.

There was never any true rebuild - it was always a retool or reset.

Changing 4 quarters to hope you get back $1.05 and not lose your 4 quarters if you don’t is not gonna make you a whole lot richer