Marc Bergevin : Attitude > Skill

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BushFireRecordsRedux

I'm a Dapper Dan man
Sep 10, 2018
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710
6 putrid years
1 decent summer

perfect time to be cocky I guess

I'm not sure that's necessarily fair. I wanted Bergevin gone as much as anyone the last 2 years but his first couple of years weren't putrid. They were a bit risk adverse but he tweaked well (Vanek, Petry, Weise ect.) without spending much capital. Obviously at some point he needed to address C and really give that core a chance so I'm hesitant to call it a success but he wasn't a failure. He lost his head a bit the last couple of seasons, some really inexplicable moves and even worse public relations. This last summer looks promising, though.

At this point, with BriseBois off the market and the insistence of hiring someone who can speak French, it's probably in our best interest that Bergevin keep trending in the right direction. Who knows? Sweeney looked like an absolute disaster in Boston for a couple of years and all the sudden it looks really good there, lots of young talent and a really good roster. Maybe things end up better here than anticipated. The system is pretty deep (lacking anything high end obviously) and on the NHL roster some young - young prime aged players like Drouin, Domi, Gallagher, Kotkaniemi, Mete, Juulsen.
 

Scintillating10

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
19,346
8,810
Nova Scotia
I think Bergs has done a real good job. This is a good club he has built here. A fun, entertaining team to watch. Farm system is one of best in NHL, we are well under the cap.
 
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WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
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I'm not sure that's necessarily fair. I wanted Bergevin gone as much as anyone the last 2 years but his first couple of years weren't putrid. They were a bit risk adverse but he tweaked well (Vanek, Petry, Weise ect.) without spending much capital. Obviously at some point he needed to address C and really give that core a chance so I'm hesitant to call it a success but he wasn't a failure. He lost his head a bit the last couple of seasons, some really inexplicable moves and even worse public relations. This last summer looks promising, though.
He tweaked a weak but promising core. The team needed a C-man and never got it. He also drafted poorly and didn't develop any talent. That's not at all like Sweeny's tenure. It's a total failure from day 1. Hiring Therrien and Daigneault is a total failure. Signing/trading for non-NHLer like Parros, Murray, etc. is a total failure.

At this point, with BriseBois off the market and the insistence of hiring someone who can speak French, it's probably in our best interest that Bergevin keep trending in the right direction. Who knows? Sweeney looked like an absolute disaster in Boston for a couple of years and all the sudden it looks really good there, lots of young talent and a really good roster. Maybe things end up better here than anticipated. The system is pretty deep (lacking anything high end obviously) and on the NHL roster some young - young prime aged players like Drouin, Domi, Gallagher, Kotkaniemi, Mete, Juulsen.
I think at this point we know it'll take a lot to lose Bergevin, so we're all hoping he learns from all this and becomes a better GM. It won't undo his over half-a-decade of awful management but it'll go a long way. We developed GM talent the hardest dang way, as we do with coaching talent.
 

Doc McKenna

A new era 2021
Jan 5, 2009
11,881
11,894
I think Bergs has done a real good job. This is a good club he has built here. A fun, entertaining team to watch. Farm system is one of best in NHL, we are well under the cap.
You do understand that he didn't build this club so much as stumble around in the dark looking for a nut. If your way of building a club is failing 3 years in row unintentionally all the while trying to land everyone, but they don't even want to talk to you(hence being under the cap) then that isn't planning, its reacting. We have young talent because we sucked(and not by design).

And If you think this team is going to a cup lets have another conversation in february. A lot of people are loving our October Cup-AGAIN, but fail to remember what this team looks like come january. MAYBE we don't repeat again this year, but I doubt it. We are a hot start team that flames out midseason. Last year we sucked out of the gates because our wizard GM had assembled the worst D squad in the NHL along with a centre lineup that was one of the worst in habs history. We set records for how crap the last 3 seasons have been.

MB didn't build anything, he failed and likely now has his hands tied while being just a face to present to RDS till something better becomes available.
 

Habs Icing

Formerly Onice
Jan 17, 2004
19,615
11,347
Montreal
You do understand that he didn't build this club so much as stumble around in the dark looking for a nut. If your way of building a club is failing 3 years in row unintentionally all the while trying to land everyone, but they don't even want to talk to you(hence being under the cap) then that isn't planning, its reacting. We have young talent because we sucked(and not by design).

And If you think this team is going to a cup lets have another conversation in february. A lot of people are loving our October Cup-AGAIN, but fail to remember what this team looks like come january. MAYBE we don't repeat again this year, but I doubt it. We are a hot start team that flames out midseason. Last year we sucked out of the gates because our wizard GM had assembled the worst D squad in the NHL along with a centre lineup that was one of the worst in habs history. We set records for how crap the last 3 seasons have been.

MB didn't build anything, he failed and likely now has his hands tied while being just a face to present to RDS till something better becomes available.
Until this summer I would agree with your assessment. Last summer I dubbed MB The Idiot but I think your post is dated by 5 months. MB (or whoever is impersonating him) has turned this organization around.

1) Ric Dudley is gone. I think he may have misled MB with an outdated philosophy. Nothing to go on just a gut feeling.
2) Rid the AHL of it's putrid coaching staff.
3) Hired Bouchard one of the up and coming Francophone hockey minds.
4) Fired JJD, Lacroix
5) Hired Ducharme. Read the post on Bouchard.
6) Hired Richardson who looks like a great defensive coach.
7) Traded Galchenyuk for Domi. Looks like a great move.
8) Traded that slug, Pacioretty, for Tatar, Suzki and a second.
9) Picked up Armia is a sauvee move.
10) Picked up Peca, Ouelet and a number of d-men playing in the A.
11) Made moves where we picked up 10 draft picks.

We went from having no legit top 2 center prospects 6 months ago. Today we have 3 and it might be 5 or 6 if all goes well. The defense is looking above average and we have d prospects. The team is playing like the Flying Frenchmen of the 50s, 60s and 70s.

Give the man (or whoever is impersonating him) his due. Since May, MB has done a fantastic job.
 

Seb

All we are is Dustin Byfuglien
Jul 15, 2006
17,418
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Finally a good summer for Bergevin, let's hope he doesn't somehow blow it up.
 
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Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
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1) Ric Dudley is gone. I think he may have misled MB with an outdated philosophy. Nothing to go on just a gut feeling.
2) Rid the AHL of it's putrid coaching staff.
3) Hired Bouchard one of the up and coming Francophone hockey minds.
4) Fired JJD, Lacroix
5) Hired Ducharme. Read the post on Bouchard.
6) Hired Richardson who looks like a great defensive coach.
7) Traded Galchenyuk for Domi. Looks like a great move.
8) Traded that slug, Pacioretty, for Tatar, Suzki and a second.
9) Picked up Armia is a sauvee move.
10) Picked up Peca, Ouelet and a number of d-men playing in the A.
11) Made moves where we picked up 10 draft picks.

We went from having no legit top 2 center prospects 6 months ago. Today we have 3 and it might be 5 or 6 if all goes well. The defense is looking above average and we have d prospects. The team is playing like the Flying Frenchmen of the 50s, 60s and 70s.

Give the man (or whoever is impersonating him) his due. Since May, MB has done a fantastic job.

1 - Did he fire Dudley? Or did Dudley just left by himself? If so..how's that a great move?
2 - Seriously? Something we, the amateur armchair idiots said to do 3 years ago....he gets the credit for finally waking up? No way.
3 - Again....no way. That way the only thing to do. Another move I talked about for so long. Not sure why doing the obvious should be applauded...our standards are so low right now....Besides, as much as I love Bouchard....results are still pending. Not like he's 8-0 so far.....
4- And again.....I have no idea how doing something amateur armchair have been shouting to do for so long should be called as doing someting FANTASTIC. If he is just as good as amateur armchair idiots.....how great is he really?
5 - Read the post about Bouchard indeed. The credit I will give him was to give both guys was look like the right chairs. He could have hired Bouchard in the pros and Ducharme in the AHL yet again, it wouldn't be bad, and we don't know what it would be doing.
6 - If he looks what it seems to be, YES, that's a great move. That was unexpected as far as we are concerned
7 - Galchy for Domi? Yep. Great move
8 - Patch for Tatar, Suzuki and 2nd. Yep, great move
9 - Armia? At the time great move for the unknown factor of what Armia could bring. Some thought he had untapped offensive potential. Wil probably most likely finally end up being a 3rd liner but with picks for nothing? Yep, very good move.
10 - Peca, Ouellet...look fine, remains to be seen in the long run. Peca is dissapointing for me, Ouellet is a surprise. So clealry better pick ups than the ones Bergevin used to do but when all is said and done, both guys might be sitting in the stands.
11 - ADding picks? Yeah. Good job. BUt in all seriousness, there is one important pick and it's in the Patch trade.

So yes, in the end, MUCH better summer. Because usually, it's absolutely PUTRID. But yes, very good summer. Fantastic? Well too soon to tell...not sure how we can make that assessment for a whole season. It surely looks very good. And there are great moves in there. It's surely a fun team to watch. I love the system. I love watching games again.

But I just will never buy that it was the plan to begin with. It makes no sense. Kotkaniemi wasn't build on a plan. He was build on putrid managing and players playing badly. And Price. In the end, our 2 best 1st rounders lately was due to Price. Price not being there. And Price being awful. In no way shape or form is it due to Bergie's plan. What this year is, is him finally succeeding in him trying something. It's him being good in his reaction. Not in his proaction. And in the end, we will see how well we are build for the future. A Byron who tells me that they are tired in October scares me. We will see how it will develop. But yes, he did very good this summer. Remains to be seen how long it lasts.
 

waffledave

waffledave, from hf
Aug 22, 2004
33,454
15,841
Montreal
I have no problem giving him credit for the moves made this summer. They have turned out far better than I expected and the team, for the first time in a long time, is finally fun to watch. He was not wrong about attitude, it really seems to be different now. I also credit the coaching staff for the changes they have made. I never thought a dinosaur like Julien would have the self awareness to make those needed changes.

All that being said, he is still a terrible GM and I don't trust him to manage the new era of this team. One good summer doesn't erase multiple consecutive bad years.
 
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Habs Icing

Formerly Onice
Jan 17, 2004
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1 - Did he fire Dudley? Or did Dudley just left by himself? If so..how's that a great move?
2 - Seriously? Something we, the amateur armchair idiots said to do 3 years ago....he gets the credit for finally waking up? No way.
3 - Again....no way. That way the only thing to do. Another move I talked about for so long. Not sure why doing the obvious should be applauded...our standards are so low right now....Besides, as much as I love Bouchard....results are still pending. Not like he's 8-0 so far.....
4- And again.....I have no idea how doing something amateur armchair have been shouting to do for so long should be called as doing someting FANTASTIC. If he is just as good as amateur armchair idiots.....how great is he really?
5 - Read the post about Bouchard indeed. The credit I will give him was to give both guys was look like the right chairs. He could have hired Bouchard in the pros and Ducharme in the AHL yet again, it wouldn't be bad, and we don't know what it would be doing.
You're being unfair. He made them. I wished we had drafted Domi in 2013 does that nullify MB's trade 5 years later? No. You're being petty here, trying real hard not to give MB credit for making the right moves. Does it really matter that you thought about those moves? You also thought about terrible moves and he didn't make them.

Now, if you would have said like another poster had said, these moves are not enough and he has to make more excellent moves then I would agree with you.
 

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,384
27,838
Ottawa
You know things are going well when Bergy starts calling random press conferences :laugh:
It's not really random..it was pre-determined.

As part of the teams "policy" of being "more" transparent, they identified different points throughout the year where Bergevin would address the media without having a specific reason too (i.e. trade, signing, etc).

Bergevin today, essentially took over the duties Claude Julien would typically have following practice.
 
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Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
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You're being unfair. He made them. I wished we had drafted Domi in 2013 does that nullify MB's trade 5 years later? No. You're being petty here, trying real hard not to give MB credit for making the right moves. Does it really matter that you thought about those moves? You also thought about terrible moves and he didn't make them.

Now, if you would have said like another poster had said, these moves are not enough and he has to make more excellent moves then I would agree with you.

Did I said that everyting was bad? I didn't give him credit for anything? You know what was said when he went and got Dwight King....or Ales Hemsky....or Nikita Nesterov...or whoever? That it wasn't a big deal. So the guy actually goes from his bad moves being not a big deal to being fantastic when he does something that should have been done before? And I'm saying that you are being too easy on him. We would have been ahead of where we are if most of those moves would have been made how we have suggested. And yes it matters that uneducated fans thought of something before the guy that is paid heavily decided to think that too. It should at the very least refrain to be called fantastic.....

Going for Bouchard and Ducharme, firing Lefebvre all this is bad. Bad that it didn,t happen before. The moves that are great are the trade he made this summer. Pretty sure I applauded him for it. What you are doing are invent things to prove a point.

You realize that we could have made that kind of list for 5 years now but to say how bad he was?

1- He didn't fire Lefebvre yet again
2 - He didn't acquire Bouchard and Ducharme while it's clear that those guys are great
3 - He didn't make great trades that would improve the team
4 - He added plugs that won't help the team
5 - He didn't add enough draft picks etc.....

What he did in that regard, coaching, was WELL overdue. And would have been done by MOST here if we would have had that power.

What he did great this summer was his trades. Pretty sure I said that enough time now. So he had a great summer. First one in 6 years. I still need to be convinced that this is not a fluke.
 
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David Suzuki

Registered User
Aug 25, 2010
17,751
8,989
New Brunswick
It's not really random..it was pre-determined.

As part of the teams "policy" of being "more" transparent, they identified different points throughout the year where Bergevin would address the media without having a specific reason too (i.e. trade, signing, etc).

Bergevin today, essentially took over the duties Claude Julien would typically have following practice.

Relax it was a joke
 

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,384
27,838
Ottawa
Relax it was a joke
I'm not sure what could of gave you the impression I was agitated or upset.

I was just adding the context that was obviously missing.

I'm high as hell on meds for a pinched nerve...I couldn't be any more relaxed then I am now lol
 
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