Marc Bergevin: Apocalypse Soon Edition (XIII)

[waffledave]

It's a bit puzzling to me that Toronto is so bad. Do they have a lot of injuries? Has Tavares actually been overrated for years?

I think the problem there is you have multiple young elite-level guys on the team and in a market like Toronto these guys get elevated to godlike status before they are mature enough to handle that. Now you have these amazing talents but they play and behave like they're NHL elite (from a talent standpoint, they are, but you need to actually earn that designation too). They don't play for each other, they play for themselves, pumping up their own stats but not busting their asses enough or back-checking.

I don't really know how to fix it. Babcock had his issues but the biggest, to me, was that he couldn't right the ship and get these cocky kids to buy in. Keefe has been way better in this regard but they are still a tier below where they need to be. What happened on Saturday was pure mental weakness.

 

[salbutera]

His biggest weakness is his planning. He doesn’t make things come together.

Again, he will go down the same path if he doesn’t trade Price, Weber, Petry, etc. He will go all-in next year. The kids are not strong enough (except maybe Suzuki) to plan a raise in team performance.

This all-in, even if it works full blast will lead to nothing more then a 1st or 2nd round exit but most probably it ends up another playoff miss because the other teams are also getting better.

He could have been a good GM but he is better suited as an excellent #2. Time to start calculating, sell and get a solid, talented core.

He the GM is a worker, nothing more, who is provided guidelines of what he can & can’t do by ownership - and what expectations are for the way business will be conducted. If ownership says no reconstruction the GM will have to decide whether he wishes to kiss his job goodbye by rebelling with a possibility of never getting another GM gig again.

 

[lo striver]

be patient, he will fix it on the draft day.

 

[ahmedou]

A misunderstood genius.

 

[Roadhouse]

 

[Chili]

With a couple of exceptions, teams play two goaltenders now. Vegas made it a priority to trade for Lehner so they would have two.

Did the Habs see the game on Saturday night in Toronto and how quickly you can lose one (or two) to injury?

The media asked a brief question today about looking for a backup goaltender but this should be a priority for next season.

 

[justafan22]

Today was the most shook I've seen him in a few years since the Subban trade.

 

[Roadhouse]

With a couple of exceptions, teams play two goaltenders now. Vegas made it a priority to trade for Lehner so they would have two.

Did the Habs see the game on Saturday night in Toronto and how quickly you can lose one (or two) to injury?

The media asked a brief question today about looking for a backup goaltender but this should be a priority for next season.

"J'ai eu des pourparlers, oui. Mais tu vois ce que ça a donné...

Inept. Incapable.

 

[Justin11]

It’s hard to make trades, it’s hard to draft, it’s hard to develop. I’m I missing something here?

 

[Chili]

"J'ai eu des pourparlers, oui. Mais tu vois ce que ça a donné...

Inept. Incapable.

They turned the page on Kinkaid in November? He had 3 months to have some 'pourparlers'.

If Price had been injured it would have been another lost season early like it was when Condon played all those games.

"We need to pay more attention to detail".

 

[Milhouse40]

Bergevin isn't rebuilding, we never were in a rebuild as some claimed for the last 2 years.
It seems that way only because it's the end results of multiple of Bergevin's failure.

Having said that, i'm not that mad cause it's exactly what i said would happen. It was really obvious.
If Bergevin returns next year, he got one more year. Nothing more that's for dawn sure now.

Now i think we'll see a switch this summer in Bergevin's so called plan.
He has the assets to play with and no more option than winning starting next year.
No more betting on prospect that might not pan out.

For Bergevin, if he stays, it's time to go all-in.

 

[417]

I think the problem there is you have multiple young elite-level guys on the team and in a market like Toronto these guys get elevated to godlike status before they are mature enough to handle that. Now you have these amazing talents but they play and behave like they're NHL elite (from a talent standpoint, they are, but you need to actually earn that designation too). They don't play for each other, they play for themselves, pumping up their own stats but not busting their asses enough or back-checking.

I don't really know how to fix it. Babcock had his issues but the biggest, to me, was that he couldn't right the ship and get these cocky kids to buy in. Keefe has been way better in this regard but they are still a tier below where they need to be. What happened on Saturday was pure mental weakness.

They don't have the right mix of players, top heavy at forward in the top 6 and it's pretty average after that...now those top players making big money, GM has to juggle with a tight cap to fix the rest of his roster, drafting hasn't been super strong either so they haven't been able to supplement their roster that way.

He's gone out and tried the euro free agent route and it's brought varying degrees of success.

Not trying to sound revisionist, alot of people said it at the time but signing Tavares was not needed. He fell into their lap, they would have been prudent to keep the process they had undertaken, on the same path.

They peaked early and it coincided with Tavares being a free agent.

They'll have to sacrifice talent to get better role players throughout their roster.

 

[Kwikwi]

3 RFAs (Domi Mete Evans)
3 UFAs (Weise, Kinkaid, Folin)

Well have the same team next year + Romanov

 

[The Great Weal]

Just this past year, Carolina has done more than Bergevin has done in 8 years. Holy f*** they are so active.
1)Nino for Rask: Nino is struggling this year but it's still an easy win for the Canes
2)Taking on Marleau: What a f***ing trade, incredible job taking advantage of cap issued teams
3)Haula for Roy+5th: Once again, incredible job taking advantage of cap issued teams
4)Faulk to St.Louis: Faulk made no sense with Hamilton and Pesce there, makes sense to get something for him and Bokk is a solid prospect
5)Picked up Vatanen for dirt cheap as a solid band-aid with Hamilton and Pesce out
6)Skjei to replace a top 4 dman that is injured: Slavin,Vatanen,Skjei,Gardiner,Edmundson,Fleury/TVR is still a much better defense than a team like us.
7)Trocheck: upgrade on Haula and they didn't give up anything too crazy

I also love what they did at the draft.

Just value alone, it's not like they did a phenomenal job. There are some overpayments and underpayments, but they clearly aren't afraid to make moves and clearly have an excellent plan in place for their future and short-term.

So jealous. Literally the only thing they could have done more was trading for Lehner since they still have 2 2nds(also had MUCH better top 2 round picks than the Habs before the Skjei trade). EDIT: Their GM says that Mrazek isn't out for that long. I agree with him that it would have been a waste to spend assets on a goalie.

But hey, trades are hard lol. I'm just at a complete loss for words that Molson can buy this crap when he can open his two f***ing eyes and see what a team like Carolina is doing.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

There is so much empirical evidence of Therrien's incompetence (not the least of which is him having an eventual cup winning team out of the playoffs) that it's really not worth discussing. And there's zero doubt that his hiring was disastrous for us. He was the worst possible coach we could've hired.

The absolute worst. My excitement because the Habs hired Bergevin lasted until the moment they announced he hired Therrien. Too bad I won't be able to find my disdain in my writing.

 

[Miller Time]

Pretty hilarious that he is still incapable of adding a 1st round pick

I mean, you almost would have to intentionally be trying not to add quality draft picks to go on this long a run of mediocrity without being able to add even 1 extra first rounder.

His ineptitude is actually quite fascinating to watch...

 

[DAChampion]

Today was the most shook I've seen him in a few years since the Subban trade.

That's interesting.

I wonder if he tried and failed to get some other deals to happen.

 

[Kriss E]

He the GM is a worker, nothing more, who is provided guidelines of what he can & can’t do by ownership - and what expectations are for the way business will be conducted. If ownership says no reconstruction the GM will have to decide whether he wishes to kiss his job goodbye by rebelling with a possibility of never getting another GM gig again.

Well whatever the owner has told him, I seriously doubt missing the POs 4/5 years, a decrease in interest in the team, more empty seats at the Bell Center, was all part of the plan.

Looking at how Bergevin has managed the team since the first day, and hearing both him and Molson speak over the years, it's pretty clear Bergevin can do whatever the hell he wants. There's really no evidence of Molson setting the direction for Bergevin. Also, Bergey seems like the last guy who would accept to be told what to do by some wealthy nerd like Molson.

 

[Kriss E]

"J'ai eu des pourparlers, oui. Mais tu vois ce que ça a donné...

Inept. Incapable.

The craziest part in that is he and the journalists laughed after he said that.

''I couldn't do my job'' hahahah....What bizarro world are we living in?

 

[Forsead]

I don't understand. From all accounts making the playoffs is a minimum of 5-6 M in profits for the Habs (2 games at Bell Center). I mean this is money lost, I would be furious for these failures.

 

[Jabba11]

Call of the Wilde: Marc Bergevin takes a left turn on NHL trade deadline

 

[CHwest]

Pretty hilarious that he is still incapable of adding a 1st round pick

I mean, you almost would have to intentionally be trying not to add quality draft picks to go on this long a run of mediocrity without being able to add even 1 extra first rounder.

His ineptitude is actually quite fascinating to watch...

Why settle for a first when you can squeeze a team for a couple of fifths.

 

[DAChampion]

I don't understand. From all accounts making the playoffs is a minimum of 5-6 M in profits for the Habs (2 games at Bell Center). I mean this is money lost, I would be furious for these failures.

There's no lost money as they don't spend to the cap limit.

 

[Forsead]

There's no lost money as they don't spend to the cap limit.

Maybe, but as soon as you compare to 4 games at the Bell Center, it's clearly lost money.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

I think the problem there is you have multiple young elite-level guys on the team and in a market like Toronto these guys get elevated to godlike status before they are mature enough to handle that. Now you have these amazing talents but they play and behave like they're NHL elite (from a talent standpoint, they are, but you need to actually earn that designation too). They don't play for each other, they play for themselves, pumping up their own stats but not busting their asses enough or back-checking.

I don't really know how to fix it. Babcock had his issues but the biggest, to me, was that he couldn't right the ship and get these cocky kids to buy in. Keefe has been way better in this regard but they are still a tier below where they need to be. What happened on Saturday was pure mental weakness.

trading Kadri away hurt them more than acquiring Tavares has helped them imo