Speculation: Maple Leafs Management Discussion/Speculation Thread

[Faltorvo]

RC is for a dump and chase type of game. In other words, he never was a possession-driving coach. The truth is our roster is actually built for possession, but with speed. If utilised well, we should be outscoring our opposition.

The idea that Kessel isn't a puck possession player, because he plays at higher speeds is flawed. While, it is true that he's not going to slow things down, but when it comes to working the puck...he's elite.

ok, I understand what you are getting at

I can see that folks are now delving into the world of "what does possession game " really mean and to whom, like the retool/rebuild debates.

How ever one wants to interpret, split hairs or parse that meaning or intention out, I'll just leave it this way.

By all that I see and know of this roster, "it won't work, won't amount to what some here think it will"

We just don't have the type of horses that have the ability to hold the puck long, retrieve the puck in traffic and the corners.

 

[Gary Nylund]

ok, I understand what you are getting at

I can see that folks are now delving into the world of "what does possession game " really mean and to whom, like the retool/rebuild debates.

How ever one wants to interpret, split hairs or parse that meaning or intention out, I'll just leave it this way.

By all that I see and know of this roster, "it won't work, won't amount to what some here think it will"

We just don't have the type of horses that have the ability to hold the puck long, retrieve the puck in traffic and the corners.

So considering our roster, what do you think our approach should be? What will work?

 

[hockeyfanz*]

So considering our roster, what do you think our approach should be? What will work?

Not a popular opinion but this roster is not going to work for anything really. Other than maybe trying hard to draft the next Crosby...Conner McDavid.

 

[theIceWookie]

Not a popular opinion but this roster is not going to work for anything really. Other than maybe trying hard to draft the next Crosby...Conner McDavid.

I'd like to know why you have that unpopular opinion. Easy to just state it.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

I'd like to know why you have that unpopular opinion. Easy to just state it.

Not sure what you mean...I think most fans don't want to hear that the Leafs will not be a good team. In fact there is a thread with a poll that suggests they will be a better team. I'm not convinced.

Judging by Shanahan's moves which amounted to a lot of shuffling but no real upgrades...it suggests to me that he is not competing for anything this year. Its a transition year where perhaps both Nonis and Carlyle will end up in the unemployment line. Trade deadline, Shanny could be a big seller.

Its the McDavid sweepstakes. Apparently there hasn't been a consensus #1 pick like McDavid since Sid the Kid.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Eichel has a chance to be the best American-born player in the league in due time, but I agree, there are still a lot of question marks around the team and if the 'core' can't provide Ws in close games then Shanahan will really start putting his fingerprints on the organization. People forget, but if the Leafs were a middle-of-the-pack shootout team, instead of top-4, then they would've finished bottom-5 last season. This simply isn't that great of a roster. We'll see how big an effect the systems "modifications" help the bottom line.

 

[Stats01]

Very short sighted and ignorant. What many seem to forget, is that this organization generates hundreds of millions of dollars, and there are many shareholders and executives that are expecting that to continue, as well as the revenue the Leafs help the NHL with as well. With these facts in mind, you would expect these shareholders to approve such a lucrative franchise being run by inexperienced management? that's beyond ridiculous.

GM's of today often spend many years under past GM's cutting their teeth, cultivating relationships and learning the job. Its funny the thought that the GM;s job is primarily trading players. There is a lot more to it than just that. When Burke was with the Leafs he had the deepest front office staff in the NHL, as there are no CBA or cap restrictions on front office staff. I expect MLSE to do the same.

No what's ignorant is completely shunning Dubas because he has no NHL experience and just tolling around the same GM's from team to team to team. We've gone the experience route with Burke, it didn't work, we've gone with Nonis didn't work. Dubas built the Greyhounds from basically scratch and built a great foundation, that's exactly what I would look for in my next GM if I were Shanahan not a recycled name that's been around the NHL block a few times. Been there and done that.

 

[Stats01]

Also what "inexperience" may mean to you may mean "fresh ideas", "modern thinking" to others. Like I said until Dubas is given a chance he'll always have 0 experience. Shanahan didn't hire him to just be a second fiddle for his whole career.

 

[New Liskeard]

No what's ignorant is completely shunning Dubas because he has no NHL experience and just tolling around the same GM's from team to team to team. We've gone the experience route with Burke, it didn't work, we've gone with Nonis didn't work. Dubas built the Greyhounds from basically scratch and built a great foundation, that's exactly what I would look for in my next GM if I were Shanahan not a recycled name that's been around the NHL block a few times. Been there and done that.

I highly doubt there has been a GM in the OHL who's next step was straight to the NHL in a GM role without any front office NHL experience. As I mentioned, many young exec's spent many years in an assistant capacity prior to making the jump to the GM position, see the GM for Buffalo/Calgary and Vancouver as a just a few examples. The Toronto Maple Leafs are one of the most important NHL teams in the league from a revenue standpoint. To hand the keys to the new Ferrari to a kid who just got his license is asinine. Im sure the shareholders would love that.

So you claim Burke did a bad job yet Dubas laid a great foundation? Tell me, did Burke lay a great foundation from what he had till the day he left, or what exactly are your expectations?

I guess the theory should also be, why should he Leafs hire NHL coaches, Babcock if available or Boudreau if he leaves, where your belief is inexperience and fresh ideas are the way to go? I'm not opposed to new and fresh ideas at all, but new ideas combined with no experience at the steering wheel is a complete disaster and gong show waitning to happen.

 

[Schadenfreude]

The Next Asst. GM...

Does anyone else believe that Shanny's next Asst. GM hire will be someone who's been in the game for a while and is respected by his piers. Could possibly replace Nonis at the end of the year and groom Dubas for the future?

 

[Derrty]

Ok, I'll do it.

 

[egd27]

Does anyone else believe that Shanny's next Asst. GM hire will be someone who's been in the game for a while and is respected by his piers. Could possibly replace Nonis at the end of the year and groom Dubas for the future?

If that's his plan he might as well fire Nonis now.

 

[TML1967]

Who is out of work now, or working in a smaller position that could fill that kind of role? As an established guy who is looking to take over/ nurturer of a guy like Dubas?

I want a Pat Quinn type guy, or maybe a Sutter. Someone who is a true old school hockey type who is willing to use, embrace and enhance how advanced stats can be used to help us. Kind of like an odd-couple type relationship, i feel the balance would help the team try to find new ways of finding gems in late rounds and the u.f.a market.

 

[JackJ]

If that's his plan he might as well fire Nonis now.

He'll allow Nonis and Carlyle to twiddle their thumbs until the proper replacements become available. In the meantime the youngsters will get experience on the ice and Nonis won't be allowed to sign contracts that screw over the next GM.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

what other well-known candidates are available right now for the other assistant gm position?

 

[dimi78]

Exactly. Even Boston system is not predicated on puck possession. Their game is rather dependent on a tight-checking, grinding game which is obviously join to limit puck possession. On the other hand, Chicago is a great example of puck possession with playmakers like Krueger on the bottom-six.

Actually their both puck possession games designed to play more in the offensive zone than they play in the defensive zone. One utilizes skill & speed as the other is about working the walls with size & grit. Both are effective and the truth is a little bit of both played across the lines is the best way to go based on the skill sets your lines are set up like LA does and why they went out and got Gaborik to boost the skilled possession game that #1 lines are more set to play.

The thing is it all starts from your breakouts and the effectiveness of your PMD's abilities to hold on to pucks and get the offense going where the team could get into the offensive zone with possession or either set up the dump where you could have forcheckers get in with speed. We had shackles on PMD were looking for stretch passes which resulted the 5 guys on the ice played way too far apart from one another and neither was effective. Rope & dope.

The Leafs scoring lines are more suited to play the skilled puck possession game and it's bottom 6 were more suited to play the other but the shackles of PMD caused both to suck

Have you guys seen both LA and Chicago play without Doughty and Keith? It's not pretty let me tell you that's why they play so much.
#FreeJakeGardiner & FreeMorganRielly

 

[CellarDweller0]

if we get off to a bad start or have another collapse, carlyle and nonis will be gone.

I think Carlyle will be gone before Nonis since Nonis never hired RC so that gives him a bye albeit a short one. I think it depends on whether Shanny thinks the player moves Nonis made were good ones or not. Hard to say because us fans really dont have any insight into is responsible for what moves. Having said that, the assumption should be that Nonis was leading all of them.

 

[TheOtherSide]

I wonder if we might see joe nieuwendyk come back??

 

[Team Overrated]

I wonder if we might see joe nieuwendyk come back??

I am all for that!


To early in Dallas for him but he has a great hockey mind!

 

[crump]

We will find out soon. Announcement coming next week apparently...
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/08/14/maple-leafs-phaneuf-to-meet-with-shanahan


Near end of article.
Phaneuf is just one project for Shanahan, who has been huddling with Nonis on player acquisitions and made the high-profile hiring of 28-year-old assistant Kyle Dubas in July. Next week, Shanahan will reveal his second front-office move, after letting assistant GM/capologist Claude Loiselle go, as well as hockey operations VP Dave Poulin.

 

[Cor]

Yeah, I can see Niewy being the hire.

 

[JoeyBeans]

Shanahan: Maple Leafs hiring more front-office staff next week

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/555186

 

[Stats01]

I highly doubt there has been a GM in the OHL who's next step was straight to the NHL in a GM role without any front office NHL experience. As I mentioned, many young exec's spent many years in an assistant capacity prior to making the jump to the GM position, see the GM for Buffalo/Calgary and Vancouver as a just a few examples. The Toronto Maple Leafs are one of the most important NHL teams in the league from a revenue standpoint. To hand the keys to the new Ferrari to a kid who just got his license is asinine. Im sure the shareholders would love that.

So you claim Burke did a bad job yet Dubas laid a great foundation? Tell me, did Burke lay a great foundation from what he had till the day he left, or what exactly are your expectations?

I guess the theory should also be, why should he Leafs hire NHL coaches, Babcock if available or Boudreau if he leaves, where your belief is inexperience and fresh ideas are the way to go? I'm not opposed to new and fresh ideas at all, but new ideas combined with no experience at the steering wheel is a complete disaster and gong show waitning to happen.

Hence why Dubas is going to be an assistant GM to start off...

 

[SprDaVE]

Nieuwendyk would be a solid hire, all though I don't think he did all that well in Dallas... but as a person to have to surround Nonis with, I don't think you can go wrong. He's one smart guy.

With that said, one of the new hires (if there are more then one) will be apparently the capologist. I doubt someone like Nieuwy would be that guy... so I think it will be a name we haven't really heard before.

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

What makes any of you even remotely certain that Joe Nieuwendyk would be a competent hire? Nothing in his resume even hints at it (look at Dallas).