TSN: Maple Leafs have offers for D Franson (prefer to re-sign him)

[Fogelhund]

I agree with everything in the post except for the last statement.

Franson brings a couple of dynamics to our defense that we don't get much of from our other players...

1) He's a Right Handed Shot (Yes, this DOES make a difference!)
2) He has size (Tallest player on our backend)
3) Hitting Machine (2nd in the league in hits)
4) Very effective shot (Has ability to get it on net like none of our other defensmen)

These qualities right here are (and should be) in high demand. If we get rid of Franson, these are some of the qualities were are looking for in our back end (in addition to more defensive minded player).

I think on Franson's good days, he's top pairing worthy. Problem with him is that those days are far and few between. But ideally... he'd make a solid addition to our 3rd pairing.

If anything, it is Gardiner and Reilly that are redundant. I personally don't want either of them gone, but it kind of makes the most sense to move one if we want to bring a strong defensive piece to our back end. Both of them are essentially the same kind of players...

I'll grant you the right handed shot.. we need more of that. He is big, and while the stats say he is a hitting machine, it is hardly the type that instill's fear in anyway, and many times leaves him out of position, and lacking the foot speed to get back. His shot is good... on the power play, but despite this, mostly only assists. I don't think he is anything near top pair worthy, even on his best days. Sometimes second pair, but he really is just a third pairing PP specialist. At the right price, by all means keep him. I have no issues with that, but at the right price. With the right coaching, right system and right partner, he is a useful player. Unlike many others, I don't view him as a scapegoat, or a terrible player at all. He just needs to be paid according to what he is, and paired with the right guy. Fraser worked well with him, and they made that pairing quite effective, it is a real shame his injury seemed to put him off his game.

Agree with your assessment as a solid addition to a third pairing, who is very good at getting the shot off on the PP. At the right price, you keep him. Anything over $3 million ($2-2.5 million is right I think), and good bye and no NTC or NMC please.

 

[masarume]

I'll grant you the right handed shot.. we need more of that. He is big, and while the stats say he is a hitting machine, it is hardly the type that instill's fear in anyway, and many times leaves him out of position, and lacking the foot speed to get back. His shot is good... on the power play, but despite this, mostly only assists. I don't think he is anything near top pair worthy, even on his best days. Sometimes second pair, but he really is just a third pairing PP specialist. At the right price, by all means keep him. I have no issues with that, but at the right price. With the right coaching, right system and right partner, he is a useful player. Unlike many others, I don't view him as a scapegoat, or a terrible player at all. He just needs to be paid according to what he is, and paired with the right guy. Fraser worked well with him, and they made that pairing quite effective, it is a real shame his injury seemed to put him off his game.

Agree with your assessment as a solid addition to a third pairing, who is very good at getting the shot off on the PP. At the right price, you keep him. Anything over $3 million ($2-2.5 million is right I think), and good bye and no NTC or NMC please.

I wouldn't pay him more than 2.5
But you've pretty much got it. The problem isn't Franson in terms of his attributes. He has assets we can utilize. The problem is his demands and the flaws that come with it.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

If anything, it is Gardiner and Reilly that are redundant. I personally don't want either of them gone, but it kind of makes the most sense to move one if we want to bring a strong defensive piece to our back end. Both of them are essentially the same kind of players...

Because you can't have two players with the same good skillset, right?

Every team in the NHL could use two or three Gardiners and Riellys. Not many need or want a Franson.

 

[Mess]

I wouldn't pay him more than 2.5
But you've pretty much got it. The problem isn't Franson in terms of his attributes. He has assets we can utilize. The problem is his demands and the flaws that come with it.

Franson has outscored Dion Phaneuf the past 2 seasons and done it with less TOI/g and opportunities.

I'm sure his agent is pointing that fact out to Leafs management.

Does that make him worth at least 1/2 of what Dion earns?

 

[masarume]

Franson has outscored Dion Phaneuf the past 2 seasons and done it with less TOI/g and opportunities.

I'm sure his agent is pointing that fact out to Leafs management.

Does that make him worth at least 1/2 of what Dion earns?

If he was only paid on offensive performance, he would deserve MORE than half of Dion's pay.

However, our issues right now are more defensively oriented. You can bring all the statistics within the realm of hockey analytics - nobody is going to convince Nonis that Franson was a +defensive defensemen last year.

 

[bobermay]

Because you can't have two players with the same good skillset, right?

Every team in the NHL could use two or three Gardiners and Riellys. Not many need or want a Franson.

I didn't say you can't have them both... I said they are redundant. They bring the same element to the team.

Right now, both are defensive liabilities... both don't really have a good shot... but both have potential to be a real solid player.

As it stands now, we already have 4 offensive minded defenders... (Phaneuf, Gardiner, Rielly and Franson). Of the four, to be honest... I'd get rid of Gardiner. He's already 24 (Only three years younger than Franson)... and he can still 'flop'. Right now, it would be a prefer sell high scenario.

All I was saying was that if we want to bring in someone more defensive minded, it would make sense to send Gardiner the other way since him and Rielly are redundant... obviously you wouldn't get rid of him for peanuts... At the end of the day, I don't want to get rid of any of our defenders to be honest... I like them all... but I think we can all agree that we need to make some adjustments.

At the end of the day, I like all of our defenders... the problem is, I don't think that they are the right combination of players to have....

 

[Mess]

If he was only paid on offensive performance, he would deserve MORE than half of Dion's pay.

However, our issues right now are more defensively oriented. You can bring all the statistics within the realm of hockey analytics - nobody is going to convince Nonis that Franson was a +defensive defensemen last year.

Isn't offensive production a driving force behind contract demands?

Franson also records more hits and take-aways then Phaneuf.

No question Franson has defensive issues as do most of the leafs Dmen for that matter.

PS. I feel Franson should be traded and not re-signed due to lack of defensive ability.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

I know everyone hates Franson, but if he’s a third-pairing defenseman / PP specialist, he’s a useful player. He has an incredible point shot- a point shot that can be kept low produces a ton of rebounds. A weapon like that is extremely rare. Our PP could be a lot better if he were firing shots on net more. He was also significantly better the season before, and can potentially bounce back. If we can lock him up for at least 3 years at ~2.5 mil, I’d do it.

 

[Fogelhund]

Franson has outscored Dion Phaneuf the past 2 seasons and done it with less TOI/g and opportunities.

I'm sure his agent is pointing that fact out to Leafs management.

Does that make him worth at least 1/2 of what Dion earns?

Phaneuf had 20 ES points in 17:27 minutes per game ES.
Franson had 15 ES points in 16:08 minutes per game ES.

Not a great deal of difference in TOI, but Phaneuf was more effective..

Their PP time is pretty close, but Franson has excelled there points wise.

Phaneuf had substantially more PK time, making their overall TOI magnified. Phaneuf plays against much tougher opposition.

I can agree that the argument you put forth is the one that his Agent will bring, but the reality is we are tight to the cap, and Franson is what he is, a very useful third pairing, PP specialist. Can we afford to pay such a player the $4-4.5 million he is likely asking for? I would say no.

 

[Fogelhund]

I know everyone hates Franson, but if he’s a third-pairing defenseman / PP specialist, he’s a useful player. He has an incredible point shot- a point shot that can be kept low produces a ton of rebounds. A weapon like that is extremely rare. Our PP could be a lot better if he were firing shots on net more. He was also significantly better the season before, and can potentially bounce back. If we can lock him up for at least 3 years at ~2.5 mil, I’d do it.

Agreed.

 

[Morbo]

Franson has outscored Dion Phaneuf the past 2 seasons and done it with less TOI/g and opportunities.

I'm sure his agent is pointing that fact out to Leafs management.

Does that make him worth at least 1/2 of what Dion earns?

Aren't you the guy who is always arguing defence is way more important than offence??

Because if you are, Cody Franson is not a player we want to keep around, let alone compare to Dion phaneuf. I assure you a hearty laugh is the Leafs response if the agent were to try that.

 

[masarume]

Isn't offensive production a driving force behind contract demands?

Franson also records more hits and take-aways then Phaneuf.

No question Franson has defensive issues as do most of the leafs Dmen for that matter.

PS. I feel Franson should be traded and not re-signed due to lack of defensive ability.

It for sure is. And I'm sure Franson will fetch 3.5-4 million elsewhere.
I'm just hoping it's not here.

There was a reason why Adam Foote and Scott Stevens made only 2/3's of Rob Blake, Ray Bourque money when they were arguably better in their own zone.

I know you're trying to make a point for situational minutes. I'm with the most of Leafs nation. If we can bring him back for less than 2.5 million and put him back as a 5-6 guy, I'd do it. If we need him to play top 4 minutes again. Man oh man, is this going to be a long year.

 

[DaveT83*]

Why not just give a prospect a chance? Invest the money in a team need. Believe me the last thing this organization needs to be concerned about are 3rd pairing forwards/defenceman.

 

[masarume]

Agreed.

He won't though. He had a career year last year in terms of Hits + points. He won't just want a 500K bump.

 

[masarume]

Why not just give a prospect a chance? Invest the money in a team need. Believe me the last thing this organization needs to be concerned about are 3rd pairing forwards/defenceman.

To be honest, I'd prefer this route better.
We simply have too many bodies and none of them asides from Rielly is a must-have.

But I think Franson has value at 2.5. With that said, I have very big doubts he'll get anything less than 3.5 with us or another team.

 

[Mess]

Aren't you the guy who is always arguing defence is way more important than offence??

Because if you are, Cody Franson is not a player we want to keep around, let alone compare to Dion phaneuf. I assure you a hearty laugh is the Leafs response if the agent were to try that.

Sure I believe strong defense wins but we're talking contract $ here and that is based on comparables for players.

Franson production will factor into his next contract not the team record.

PS. I added to my previous post (that you quoted) and I also would like to see Franson dealt due to lack of defensive ability and wouldn't want to to pay him anything close to what he might be asking.

 

[Mess]

To be honest, I'd prefer this route better.
We simply have too many bodies and none of them asides from Rielly is a must-have.

But I think Franson has value at 2.5. With that said, I have very big doubts he'll get anything less than 3.5 with us or another team.

FYI.. $3.5 mil = 1/2 of Dion's $7 mil.

Isn't that what I was saying earlier?

 

[Fogelhund]

To be honest, I'd prefer this route better.
We simply have too many bodies and none of them asides from Rielly is a must-have.

But I think Franson has value at 2.5. With that said, I have very big doubts he'll get anything less than 3.5 with us or another team.

RFA.... How long does he sit out then, or is he traded first?

 

[Mess]

RFA.... How long does he sit out then, or is he traded first?

Franson has arbitration rights this year and could let a 3rd independent party decide his next contract.

I could see him filing if the Leafs low-ball him contract wise.

So he might not have to sit out at all if he opts for this option available to him.

 

[Durrr]

Why not just give a prospect a chance? Invest the money in a team need. Believe me the last thing this organization needs to be concerned about are 3rd pairing forwards/defenceman.

This this this. We can only hope management views this the same way and are trying to get maximum value for him as we speak.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Why not just give a prospect a chance? Invest the money in a team need. Believe me the last thing this organization needs to be concerned about are 3rd pairing forwards/defenceman.

Bingo!

 

[K19*]

Trading Franson for a 2nd would make sense, but we have a history of trading 2nds and thus don't have those former 2nds to fill Franson's spot. Gotta get a body, we're going for the playoffs as usual!

 

[Suntouchable13]

This is BS. This organization has an ugly habit of rewarding mediocrity. Sorry, is that not true? This guy does not deserve anything from this franchise. He missed most of training camp because of a contract dispute then he proceeded to have just a terrible year. No wonder there is complacency amongst the players. Don't act like he is some rare breed that you can't let go.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

mobility? what?

Franson is garbage, and was at best a 3rd pairing PP guy who capitalized on weaker competition during the shortened season(most players were out of shape at first).

easily replaceable guy and would be silly to keep, too expensive.

Keep in mind he played ALL season with a hip injury, (so did Gunnarsson).

 

[Teeder9]

Keep in mind he played ALL season with a hip injury, (so did Gunnarsson).

No wonder we lost. Everyone was injured