Confirmed with Link: Mantha traded to Washington

[PajamaBoy]

As a wings fan i love the enthusiasm but one guys potentially going to be playing with Rasmussen/Filp for next few weeks while the other is in the playoffs. Lets relax on the winner or loser of a trade 4 games in.

 

[Vandalay Industries]

Has anyone looked at how drastic the difference is between the Capitals reaction and the Wings reaction from a fan base perspective.

The Caps have been happy about the deal and talk about how they hope Vrana goes on to be successful.

Here it’s just the toxic shit hole where Wings fans look for every opportunity to dunk on Mantha because....reasons? I guess?

Losing has sucked to deal with, but a lot of this fan base has not handled it well.

In my point of view I feel it's a little bit the other way around when it comes to the Detroit fan reaction.

I was so, so happy about this trade instantly. I was happy even when I only had the information, that Mantha was traded for Vrana and Panik. Shortly thereafter I realized that Yzerman even got a 1st and a 2nd.

I expressed my happiness on the board. I explained that in my eyes Mantha was on the wrong path here. I explained that I thought he would do better in Washington than here and that we would be much, much better for getting these two new players and a very nice couple of draft choices.

I think most people on the board had this feeling to begin with: Happy for both teams. A pure hockey trade that really seemed to make a whole lot of sense for both clubs.

Well after some time the negative reactions came up. Particularly when Mantha scored once, then scored again, and once more and even a fourth in four games with Washington.

I couldn't be happier about it and has not made ONE negative Washington comment, but I could see the commentaries build up the other way around: On how it somehow made it a bad trade for Detroit that Mantha was producing in Washington. And that part was a joke to me because it never ever should have any impact on Steve Yzermans thinking whether or not Mantha was going to do well in Washington. All he had to care about is whether or not Detroit would be better of in 2022 and onwards after this trade.

In my eyes Mantha was not helping Detroit much over the past half a year. He sure wasn't a bad player, but there was so many situations where he was flatfeetet, not engaged and just didn't seem to care about playing here. He probably needed to go to a winning team to get his mojo going, not be a part of a long rebuilding procedure.

But the negative-about-the-trade people who kept pointing at Manthas new found scoring touch on a much better team and perhaps a bigger effort in Washington made it really, really hard to just enjoy the happiness about a trade that not only brought in two players that seem way more engaged and in my opinion makes this a better team, but also gave a 1st round and a 2nd round draft choice.

The negative people even was extremely busy pointing at how it was gonna be a low 1st rounder and 2nd rounder, basically with the point that it really wasn't anything. What a joke.

So yes, I understand the putting-down-Mantha as a reaction to all that negativity.

I hope this explanation makes sense. This is how I see it.

 

[BinCookin]

It should be noted we have had a few posters go over to the WSH board, and were less than polite over there.

I don't like seeing that.

 

[Hen Kolland]

In my point of view I feel it's a little bit the other way around when it comes to the Detroit fan reaction.

I was so, so happy about this trade instantly. I was happy even when I only had the information, that Mantha was traded for Vrana and Panik. Shortly thereafter I realized that Yzerman even got a 1st and a 2nd.

I expressed my happiness on the board. I explained that in my eyes Mantha was on the wrong path here. I explained that I thought he would do better in Washington than here and that we would be much, much better for getting these two new players and a very nice couple of draft choices.

I think most people on the board had this feeling to begin with: Happy for both teams. A pure hockey trade that really seemed to make a whole lot of sense for both clubs.

Well after some time the negative reactions came up. Particularly when Mantha scored once, then scored again, and once more and even a fourth in four games with Washington.

I couldn't be happier about it and has not made ONE negative Washington comment, but I could see the commentaries build up the other way around: On how it somehow made it a bad trade for Detroit that Mantha was producing in Washington. And that part was a joke to me because it never ever should have any impact on Steve Yzermans thinking whether or not Mantha was going to do well in Washington. All he had to care about is whether or not Detroit would be better of in 2022 and onwards after this trade.

In my eyes Mantha was not helping Detroit much over the past half a year. He sure wasn't a bad player, but there was so many situations where he was flatfeetet, not engaged and just didn't seem to care about playing here. He probably needed to go to a winning team to get his mojo going, not be a part of a long rebuilding procedure.

But the negative-about-the-trade people who kept pointing at Manthas new found scoring touch on a much better team and perhaps a bigger effort in Washington made it really, really hard to just enjoy the happiness about a trade that not only brought in two players that seem way more engaged and in my opinion makes this a better team, but also gave a 1st round and a 2nd round draft choice.

The negative people even was extremely busy pointing at how it was gonna be a low 1st rounder and 2nd rounder, basically with the point that it really wasn't anything. What a joke.

So yes, I understand the putting-down-Mantha as a reaction to all that negativity.

I hope this explanation makes sense. This is how I see it.

I think most people were okay with the trade, but the reality of giving away a player like Mantha was always going to be disappointing when he started to produce, which felt inevitable. There were people who did not like Mantha and wanted him gone badly, and people who are "negative about the trade" are really just pointing out that Mantha in fact is a good player who was just playing for a bad team, in a bad situation, and his stats were not reflective of the ability that he had.

So it becomes a bit of an "I told you so" that Mantha was capable of more and that he's a good player that some didn't want to give up on. I think everyone is thrilled by Vrana's early success here; that includes the Capitals fan base who didn't want to see him go and still want to see him succeed. Contrasted with Mantha, who was a lightning rod for criticism and was run out of town by a LOT of people on this board. Seeing Mantha succeed isn't viewed as a positive by those people, because they held so much ill will and anger towards Mantha. Some people, including myself, are happy to see Mantha have some success, but others are actively watching him to fail to live up to the value of the trade so they can get riled up and act like a f***ing Grade A DB. Vrana's big game brought out some really sad behaviors from people, and I think it reflects very poorly on the Wings fans.

 

[jkutswings]

It should be noted we have had a few posters go over to the WSH board, and were less than polite over there.

I don't like seeing that.

Yeah that's a great way to get a fan base a poor reputation. Frustrating to see.

 

[HisNoodliness]

It should be noted we have had a few posters go over to the WSH board, and were less than polite over there.

I don't like seeing that.

Yeah you have to hate that. If you go into another team's board you have to be maximally respectful. I don't think I'll ever quite understand why people behave the way they do around trades. Before a trade is made it's always "our guy is great, hell be way better everywhere else, your player is benefitting from whatever and has less value on the market, here's this one out of context stat that makes them look bad andy guy look good" and then the second those players get traded for each other "my old player sucked. You guys got hosed, can't believe your trade for that bum, let alone trade away the greatest player of all time. Here's a different out of context stat that makes my new guy look good and your guy look bad." Furthermore we ignore any minor pieces or aspects of the deal that benefit the other team. If we receive a 5th, a pick is a pick; if we give away a pick, well that won't amount to anything anyway. Are we so desperate to tell ourselves we won a trade that we have to delude ourselves?

In this case, I think Mantha is the better player. His offensive tools are amazing and he can take over a game. He has consistency issues and can find himself in the coaches doghouse because of how good he looks when he really is going. He should have success in Washington and I'm hoping for them.

But there's undeniable upside with Vrana too. He also has great tools, is younger and as we saw the other night, can also take over a game. I really like the player we got back.

Then we also got a 1st, 2nd and Panik which makes the trade look lopsided as Panik will be a legit player for us. However from the Washington perspective, Mantha's contract gave them cost certainty where they didn't know what Vrana would get as an RFA. Furthermore Panik was a cap dump for them. So if Panik + 2nd = nothing then from Washington's perspective a 1st + Vrana is probably pretty fair for Mantha too. They got cap space and contract certainty, the probable best player who fits their playoff window.

We got the younger player with similar potential who needed some extra opportunity, a useful third liner, and draft picks for the rebuild.

Both teams met their needs. There's no reason we have to put down their return to feel better about what we got. We can both be happy.

 

[Vandalay Industries]

One thing is for sure: Vrana skates a whole lot more over the course of a game than that former guy.

I don't know if Panik will be worth his entire contract but based on just one game here, he is definitely much more than just a taxi squad addition. I like what he's bringing.

One game down for DRW and two for WSH it seems that trade was a big win-win.

I wrote this a few games ago, and I still feel like this. I'm pretty sure Washington fans and the club are still happy about this and I'm very, very sure the Detroit Red Wings organization is still extatic about it. Win-win. What's not to like?

On a different note: It's way to early to judge any of the production the players have accumulated. I'm not judging the four goal night from Vrana and from a Detroit perspective it doesn't matter to me what Mantha brings in Washington. It's great FOR HIM (and Capitals) that he does better than he did here for the past half a season. Good on him. But it doesn't matter to me when judging whether or not Yzerman did well.

I only care about whether or not DRW will be a better organization from next season and onwards. And I can't get this to not be a big win at this point.

Now if Panik and Vrana turns out to be worth absolutely nothing over the next couple of years I will be forced to revisit my judgement, but still with the underlying factor that this even brought onboard a couple of pretty good draft choices.

Regarding Washington I'm sure they also see this as a big win, because their objective is different. They are in a win-now mode trying to get one more championship before the Ovechkin window closes as some point. I understand their willingness to trade away some future to win now. They also had cap problems that forced them to move Panik. Greta for us, in my opinion.

So once again: Win-win. I'm happy about that.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Since the trade:
Mantha 2.83 Goals/60min
Vrana 4.37 Goals/60min

We've confirmed once and for all the undeniable winner of this trade.

Who cares??? What about AA's g/60?????????

 

[jkutswings]

Who cares??? What about AA's g/60?????????

He never plays a single minute, so the #DIV/0! implies that he has an infinite G/60 rating. #AdvancedStatsTellsEverything

 

[TheOtherOne]

Who cares??? What about AA's g/60?????????

3.79 in the last 1 (one) game(s).

 

[kliq]

It should be noted we have had a few posters go over to the WSH board, and were less than polite over there.

I don't like seeing that.

I had a feeling I knew who it was, so I checked it out and sure enough I was right.

 

[max21]

It should be noted we have had a few posters go over to the WSH board, and were less than polite over there.

I don't like seeing that.

Vranas release has always been sick, his first goal showed that accurate deadly shot from that Zadina pass. Then that poke to set up his own breakaway, love to see it. Wonder if this trade will make him try to work a bit more defensively, would really round out his game

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Good Lord ha

You are like the Lions fans rooting for Stafford and the Rams... we want them to suck, I want a better player

Exactly I want the Rams to go 0-16.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Before the last few games I really thought Stevie would flip him later on but I think he’ll get the same contract Mantha got

 

[14ari13]

What do we get for the caps 1st and 2nd?
Is it where they finish in the standings or playoffs?

 

[BinCookin]

What do we get for the caps 1st and 2nd?
Is it where they finish in the standings or playoffs?

I found this on the internet...
Can anyone translate this for me into normal talk?


Picks 15-30

• Clubs eliminated first 2 rounds

• Non Division winner

• Division winner

Clubs eliminated in conference finals
Stanley Cup runner up
Stanley Cup winner

 

[14ari13]

I found this on the internet...
Can anyone translate this for me into normal talk?


Picks 15-30

• Clubs eliminated first 2 rounds

• Non Division winner

• Division winner

Clubs eliminated in conference finals
Stanley Cup runner up
Stanley Cup winner

Basically we have to hope the caps get eliminated in 1st round and don't win division, then their pick might be between 15 and 25.

 

[waltdetroit]

I found this on the internet...
Can anyone translate this for me into normal talk?


Picks 15-30

• Clubs eliminated first 2 rounds

• Non Division winner

• Division winner

Clubs eliminated in conference finals
Stanley Cup runner up
Stanley Cup winner

It's worded funny but I'm guessing this is how it goes in 2021

32) Stanley Cup winner
31) Stanley Cup runner up
29-30) conference finals losers
25-28) division losers, 2nd round
17-24) 1st round losers
3) Kraken
?) Coyotes forfeit their pick

The hierarchy for play off teams to pick is the same as usual
17-24) 1st round losers:
Clubs eliminated first round by least season point total, then
season Division winners who lost in 1st round will pick, even if their point total is less than losing teams outside their division

25-28) division losers, 2nd round;
Clubs eliminated 2nd round by least season point total
- first Non Division winners (1st round winners who were not division leaders) by least season point total, then Division winners by least season point total

 

[14ari13]

I believe Mantha has 4 g and 2 a so far. I hope they lose in round 1 so we get a higher 1st.

 

[14ari13]

In my point of view I feel it's a little bit the other way around when it comes to the Detroit fan reaction.

I was so, so happy about this trade instantly. I was happy even when I only had the information, that Mantha was traded for Vrana and Panik. Shortly thereafter I realized that Yzerman even got a 1st and a 2nd.

I expressed my happiness on the board. I explained that in my eyes Mantha was on the wrong path here. I explained that I thought he would do better in Washington than here and that we would be much, much better for getting these two new players and a very nice couple of draft choices.

I think most people on the board had this feeling to begin with: Happy for both teams. A pure hockey trade that really seemed to make a whole lot of sense for both clubs.

Well after some time the negative reactions came up. Particularly when Mantha scored once, then scored again, and once more and even a fourth in four games with Washington.

I couldn't be happier about it and has not made ONE negative Washington comment, but I could see the commentaries build up the other way around: On how it somehow made it a bad trade for Detroit that Mantha was producing in Washington. And that part was a joke to me because it never ever should have any impact on Steve Yzermans thinking whether or not Mantha was going to do well in Washington. All he had to care about is whether or not Detroit would be better of in 2022 and onwards after this trade.

In my eyes Mantha was not helping Detroit much over the past half a year. He sure wasn't a bad player, but there was so many situations where he was flatfeetet, not engaged and just didn't seem to care about playing here. He probably needed to go to a winning team to get his mojo going, not be a part of a long rebuilding procedure.

But the negative-about-the-trade people who kept pointing at Manthas new found scoring touch on a much better team and perhaps a bigger effort in Washington made it really, really hard to just enjoy the happiness about a trade that not only brought in two players that seem way more engaged and in my opinion makes this a better team, but also gave a 1st round and a 2nd round draft choice.

The negative people even was extremely busy pointing at how it was gonna be a low 1st rounder and 2nd rounder, basically with the point that it really wasn't anything. What a joke.

So yes, I understand the putting-down-Mantha as a reaction to all that negativity.

I hope this explanation makes sense. This is how I see it.

You post rarely and then when you do you write a bible.

Good post. Excellent post.
But you should call me out. You can single me out on this one. No worries man.

Yes I said that this was a terrible trade. I said we got nothing considering Vrana and Panik like useless players and the caps 1st and 2nd pretty much worthless.
What is the timeframe to assess this trade? 2 to 4 years?
I think we need to wait at least 2 years, while 4 is more realistic.
We have not seen 10 games yet.

But I can evaluate the trade after 4-6 games if you want.

They say a trade is good if it makes both teams better.
So what do we see? We see a dream trade. Mantha has points in every single game (0-0 doesn't count) 4 g and 2 a. Vrana obviously with the goal in his 1st game then followed by a beautiful assist and then a marvellous 4 goals game. Panik with 2 very good assists and one smart goal.
What is there not to love? I guess both teams and the fans should be very happy.

The problem is if Mantha turns out to be a top 3/5 (finesse) power forward as I predict and think he will, then this trade can be evaluated again.

I have to admit that Panik has surprised me. He has outplayed Namestikov and Ganger by a mile in these few games.

But as I said we need 2-4 years.

PS. I hope the caps lose in round 1 so we get a higher 1st.

 

[14ari13]

Who cares??? What about AA's g/60?????????

Relax man, it was probably a harmless and good joke.

 

[deca guard]

here n there i see spurts of vrana speed and it is exciting level elite , paired with his wicked gun slinger shot makes him a very dangerous man dmen fear . he has to be penciled in with larkin next season

 

[14ari13]

Is ovechkin injured? Caps lost 1st place to pens. Looks like they won't get 1st in their division. So we hope they lose in round 1 and the trade looks amazing good

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Is ovechkin injured? Caps lost 1st place to pens. Looks like they won't get 1st in their division. So we hope they lose in round 1 and the trade looks amazing good

We already won the trade i hope they get swept now.

 

[lilidk]

Since the trade:
Mantha 2.83 Goals/60min
Vrana 4.37 Goals/60min

We've confirmed once and for all the undeniable winner of this trade.

Only if Mantha Disappeared postseason if Washington wins cup it whoud be even trade