Proposal: Mantha for a top 10 pick

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,983
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Ft. Myers, FL
Granted, I only really get to see Mantha a few times a year, but does anyone really consider Mantha mean?

He certainly can be, unfortunately it has cost him a lot of time. Actually the last one was him letting up and not being mean enough then getting body slammed by Muzzin when he relaxed. None of his injuries have really been long-term though I guess you could look at Bobby Ryan's hands and wonder if Mantha's hands and fingers just break too easy. But Mantha is a beast when he wants to be and very intimidating when he starts pushing back for sure. He is powerful man, he isn't a guy you would want to turn around and see with ill-intent in my opinion. It is when to play that way, I think it is an element of his game that shouldn't be undersold and is because the Wings have been garbage so a lot of people haven't seen burr in the saddle Mantha in the post-season which would be scary. People got a taste of that last year when he was one of the best players at the World Championships.

I think this thread is missing the fact that we aren't looking for a fair deal to deal the most talented guy we have on a team with a serious talent deficiency. I get what other teams will want, and maybe down the line Mantha can be had as cheap as some of the proposals here. But the Wings would be wise to lock him up long-term, frankly they will get him under his true market value because of his injuries. He is a supreme talent.

You also just can't keep dealing everyone, if he is willing to stay long-term. You need guys of his talent to help the players coming through, you need Mantha - Larkin - Bertuzzi to make the building worth coming to and help the Zadina type players and others coming up in this rebuild. On this site where magic beans are everything I understand the wrong take on what Mantha is worth. If you are going to trade him you need several futures, not just one top 10 pick. That isn't enough for Anthony Mantha, certainly not where the Wings find themselves. He is the most talented player in the organization, you don't move on from him right now for anything short of a spectacular over-payment, especially so in division in terms of the always happening Montreal angle. You have to exact a pound of flesh if you're handing him over to them if you're Yzerman, but really you need to with any team. Mantha is a a stud, now hopefully he can stay healthy for a full campaign. Also at least selling then has his true talent value attached to it and hopefully a controlled contract that brings back more appropriate assets if you're Detroit. Selling him now would also infuriate Bertuzzi and Larkin, unless he is asking and his comment going into the off-season was he wanted to be here and fix this, it is a really tough sell for the organization in terms of where this actually is now.
 
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Grand Admiral Thrawn

Registered User
May 24, 2012
3,431
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Montreal
I would trade the 9th for Mantha. He would look good on a line with Domi and Drouin.

Drouin-Domi-Mantha
Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Suzuki-Kotkaniemi-Armia
Lehkonen-Poeling-Byron

That is a balanced lineup.
Yeah that top line will end up being a combined minus 60 lol.

They might score goals, but boy will they allow some as well.
 

WingsMJN2965

Registered User
Oct 13, 2017
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50 pt forwards don’t get top 10 picks. The player you draft in the top 10 you think their low bar is a 50 ptplayer.

Thrn factoring age and cost with high contract you look at ROI and it’s easy.

Yeah, thing is most GMs aren't ridiculous enough to label a guy as a sub 50 point player when he's also missed multiple games in multiple seasons...

That's like valuing Auston Matthews as a 70 point player up until this year.
 
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PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
28,408
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I felt the same way Syckle does about 2 calendar years ago, but since then Mantha has been consistently productive everywhere he has played (international tournaments included.)

As people have mentioned, his health is his biggest knock, and it shouldn't be a problem long term - his pace has been really nice for a long time now and if he played 82 game seasons he'd be scoring something like 65-75 points.

I don't love the pace argument because actually playing and accomplishing point totals is the ultimate indicator, but to start a thread questioning his value because "he hasn't scored 30 goals or 50 points in a season" is EXTREMELY disingenuous.

last year in 67 games he scored 25 goals and 48 points. This season in 43 games he scored 16 goals and 38 points. You don't need a crystal ball to see that when he does play a full season he will cross those arbitrary thresholds.

Trading him would be a huge mistake IMO. The organization has done all of the hard work of drafting and developing him, he has finally hit his stride and is a first line talent, and is currently one of the only reasons to buy a ticket to enter LCA. As @The Zetterberg Era mentioned, the team will need some established talent to lead in Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen, and future prospects so that they aren't thrown to the wolves.
 

SI90

Registered User
Jul 25, 2011
85,704
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StrongIsland
Yeah who you going to move to afford to give Mantha $7.5 million per. You guys are already going to be in cap hell just being able to resign Matt Barzal.

I didn’t make a proposal or even say Mantha was an option. Just saying I love Mantha.
The isles will not be in cap hell. Thank you for your concern though. They can trade Leddy for relief and with the expansion draft coming im sure something will be done. There are teams in a lot worse situations cap wise.
 

itwasaforwardpass

I'll be the hyena
Mar 4, 2017
5,330
5,142
I'd consider trading #8 from Buffalo for Mantha if we didn't have so much money already tied up in wingers (Skinner, Okposo, soon Reinhart extension) and didn't so desperately need to use the pick to draft/trade for a center.
 

57special

Posting the right way since 2012.
Sep 5, 2012
48,086
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MN
I sure as hell don't see top 10 value, and I'm a guy who values actual players over picks more than most.

Mantha will be 26 in a couple of months. Enough of the " on pace for". At this point he has to have shown more than that. Injuries matter...you can't just ignore them and pretend that they don't. It's part of the recipe that makes for a valuable player.

At a younger age than him, Coyle had already had a 56 point season. He has similar physical skills but plays a more valuable position. No one was talking about him fetching a top 10 pick when he was traded. He got Donato and a late pick.
Mantha has a lot of similarities to Kreider when he was the same age. Great tools, but inconsistent.
 
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Number1RedWingsFan52

Registered User
Mar 17, 2013
40,243
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Winter Haven Florida
I didn’t make a proposal or even say Mantha was an option. Just saying I love Mantha.
The isles will not be in cap hell. Thank you for your concern though. They can trade Leddy for relief and with the expansion draft coming im sure something will be done. There are teams in a lot worse situations cap wise.
You do realize that Barzal eats what cap you've left and moving Leddy just means that Pulock gets what he's making around $5.5 mill per. So who else you going to move without a benefit of a CBO.
 

PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
28,408
2,491
I sure as hell don't see top 10 value, and I'm a guy who values actual players over picks more than most.

Mantha will be 26 in a couple of months. Enough of the " on pace for". At this point he has to have shown more than that. Injuries matter...you can't just ignore them and pretend that they don't. It's part of the recipe that makes for a valuable player.

At a younger age than him, Coyle had already had a 56 point season. He has similar physical skills but plays a more valuable position. No one was talking about him fetching a top 10 pick when he was traded. He got Donato and a late pick.
Mantha has a lot of similarities to Kreider when he was the same age. Great tools, but inconsistent.

That is fine by me, I will gladly keep and extend the ~30 goal and ~70 point pace winger as a Wings fan.
 

Number1RedWingsFan52

Registered User
Mar 17, 2013
40,243
6,037
Winter Haven Florida
Detroit's not moving Mantha for players that are at least 2-3 years away from making the roster. Trading Mantha for picks just sets back our rebuild for a few years doesn't benefit it in the short term.
 

guyzeur

Registered User
Mar 25, 2009
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Ottawa
But why would you trade him? Detroit has so many young forwards that they have to trade Mantha?

He fits in your rebuild.
 

Grand Admiral Thrawn

Registered User
May 24, 2012
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Montreal
All top lines give up goals. See McDavid's plus/minus.

That's why you need Price and Weber.
Forget Mantha. No need.

Habs have to keep building on the young core they already built.

Add Laff or one of Perfetti, Rossi, Holtz, Sanderson to the current young future core of Suzuki, KK, Caufield, Romanov, Ylonen, Struble.
 

Samus44

Enjoy the ride.
Aug 5, 2010
9,317
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I sure as hell don't see top 10 value, and I'm a guy who values actual players over picks more than most.

Mantha will be 26 in a couple of months. Enough of the " on pace for". At this point he has to have shown more than that. Injuries matter...you can't just ignore them and pretend that they don't. It's part of the recipe that makes for a valuable player.

At a younger age than him, Coyle had already had a 56 point season. He has similar physical skills but plays a more valuable position. No one was talking about him fetching a top 10 pick when he was traded. He got Donato and a late pick.
Mantha has a lot of similarities to Kreider when he was the same age. Great tools, but inconsistent.

Mantha is a much more talented offensive player than Coyle. Not to mention the contract situation is nowhere near comparable. Mantha drives offense and you can build a top 6 line around him, Coyle is a good player with a strong skillset but a complementary talent in the top 6, and also wasn't an established top 6 center and iirc had more offensive success on the wing (I could be wrong on that). If it wasn't for injuries this wouldn't even be a debate. I'd certainly say he's worth a top 10 pick in a typical draft year. This year a team may be less willing to do that deal given how strong this draft class seems to be but IMO Detroit would be foolish to give him up for anything short of a premium asset and then some.
 

7even

Offered and lost
Feb 1, 2012
18,688
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Yeah, thing is most GMs aren't ridiculous enough to label a guy as a sub 50 point player when he's also missed multiple games in multiple seasons...

That's like valuing Auston Matthews as a 70 point player up until this year.

You'd be surprised at how commonly that argument was made :snide:

Hmm. I dunno. Mantha is already a good top 6 forward, flirted with ppg this past year and back to back 25 goal seasons immediately prior, and still only 25. If I were the Wings and wanted to explore moving him I'd be angling for a similar level player back. A pick in the 7-12 range doesn't excite me much. Those picks aren't tap ins.
 

Perennial

Registered User
Jun 27, 2020
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Any GM willing to trade a top 10 pick straight up for Mantha should be fired immediately...

It wouldn't just be a top 10 pick for Mantha, it would be a top 10 pick + cap space for Mantha

Now, if Detroit were willing to take back a bad contract, say, Okposo + #8 for Mantha, then it could be justified
 

TheImpatientPanther

Registered User
Jan 17, 2013
28,540
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Ontario, Canada
Any recent comparable trades to justify the top 10 pick, let alone adds?
No way he would return two top 10 picks as a winger who has yet to hit 60pts.
Any idea what his next deal will like look?
 

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