Managerial merry go round part II

[Bon Esprit]

My friends in the BVB press department heard last fall when the heat on Bosz was first building up, that they were supposed to talk down stories linking Nagelsmann to the job because him going to Bayern was all but official.

At least until sometime in the late-winter/spring when Hoeneß decided he didn’t need some know-it-all who never even played for Bayern, and that his old friend Kovac was doing a good enough job to get the job instead. (this paragraph is my own speculation)

Take it for what it’s worth, but they’re old friends who wouldn’t BS me & have tipped me off to some BVB transfers before any rumors had come out & what they told me about the whole Tuchel-Watzke clash made a lot more sense to me than any alternative story I’ve heard.

I have no reason to distrust you or your sources. Probably Hopp just said NO.
Mega-Ablöse steht im Raum: So teuer würde Julian Nagelsmann für Borussia Dortmund werden
Basically says Nagelsmann has an out-clause for 2019. If he wants to leave before it will cost double digit (low millions).
Hopp can afford not to sell and neither Bayern nor Dortmund would spent 10 or 20m on a coach.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I have no reason to distrust you or your sources. Probably Hopp just said NO.
Mega-Ablöse steht im Raum: So teuer würde Julian Nagelsmann für Borussia Dortmund werden
Basically says Nagelsmann has an out-clause for 2019. If he wants to leave before it will cost double digit (low millions).
Hopp can afford not to sell and neither Bayern nor Dortmund would spent 10 or 20m on a coach.

Bayern paid Guardiola 20M a year in salary. I think they could pay a 20M transfer fee for a manager.

 

[cgf]

Bayern paid Guardiola 20M a year in salary. I think they could pay a 20M transfer fee for a manager.

Bayern could spend that much to get a coach, but BE's not wrong to question whether they actually would given that Hoeneß backed out of doing so and opted for his old friend Nico instead

 

[Bon Esprit]

Bayern paid Guardiola 20M a year in salary. I think they could pay a 20M transfer fee for a manager.

Paying Pep is another animal. as stupid as it is, but Bayern won't spend 20m on a rookie.
Here is another link to show how Hopp was thinking at that time. From april 2017
Nagelsmann kostet laut Hopp 400 Millionen Euro Ablöse - WELT
Nonsense, of course, just to backup my post.
Dietmar Hopp wasn't willing to let Nagelsmann go.
If I heard it right on skytv Nagelsmann's fee next year will be 5m (out clause)

found this
https://sportbild.bild.de/bundeslig...enheim-rb-leipzig-wechsel-56082370.sport.html

 

[Luigi Habs]

Yeah, staying for another season and confirming your new club sounds like a disaster in the making..

I don’t understand how Hoffenheim even allow this to happen.

 

[Bon Esprit]

I don’t understand how Hoffenheim even allow this to happen.

Because their owner loves nagelsmann as a coach, but can't prevent him from leaving next year due to his contract. Since Nagelsmann took over in 16 only Bayern and BvB had a better record.

 

[cgf]

Paying Pep is another animal. as stupid as it is, but Bayern won't spend 20m on a rookie.
Here is another link to show how Hopp was thinking at that time. From april 2017
Nagelsmann kostet laut Hopp 400 Millionen Euro Ablöse - WELT
Nonsense, of course, just to backup my post.
Dietmar Hopp wasn't willing to let Nagelsmann go.
If I heard it right on skytv Nagelsmann's fee next year will be 5m (out clause)

found this
https://sportbild.bild.de/bundeslig...enheim-rb-leipzig-wechsel-56082370.sport.html

You have to remember hopp was also posturing at that time to convince Nagelsmann of how valued he is by TSG, to convince Bayern they are better off seeking the cheaper option...and to ensure that bayern didn’t try and make it happen during the season, before they pulled jupp up back. As, even though Nagelsmann wanted Bayern & Bayern was (at least initially) ready to drop 10-20m on a transfer fee for him, nothing was official or sorted out between the clubs yet so there was still a lot of negotiating to go to make it all happen.

That’s what the four hundred million euro comments screamed to me, a) we love Nagelsmann so Julian, you should stay as long as you want, b) Bayern can’t have him mid season, and c) we’re going to want some serious cash if Bayern want him before his release clause kicks in.

 

[cgf]

I don’t understand how Hoffenheim even allow this to happen.

Because their owner loves nagelsmann as a coach, but can't prevent him from leaving next year due to his contract. Since Nagelsmann took over in 16 only Bayern and BvB had a better record.

Yup. Nagelsmann took over a team that was rock bottom in the standings, hadn't even come close to challenging for europe since Hopp made them be self-funding, and whose most successful coach prior to Nagelsmann was arguably Gisdol...who had that Firmino-Volland duo doing work.

I'll get pushback on this because he's "not proven enough" and because "we still need to see him at a bigger club" but Nagelsmann is one of the best & most flexible coaches in the sport already. I don't think there are even 5 active coaches who could've done with TSG what he has in his time there. So holding onto him for as long as possible is an absolute must for that team, even if they aren't big enough to keep him forever unless Hopp decided to let them operate at a loss again...and even then it would've probably only bought them another year or two of Nagelsmann.

Plus what's the downside? That the team suddenly starts to perform as poorly for him as they would for 99.9% of the coaches he could be replaced by? I love Vogt, Geiger, Grillitsch, Demirbay, Amiri & Kramaric, but on paper that isn't a team that deserves a CL spot, yet this is the second straight year they've finished in one. So why not take the chance that it'll continue to work to try and squeeze a third straight CL finish out of this squad?

 

[Bakayoko Ono]

So Sporting hired Sinisa Mihajlovic 9 days ago, then got rid of the club president behind the hiring and now they've fired Mihajlovic.

Sporting Lisbon: Sinisa Mihajlovic sacked after just nine days

 

[cgf]

REINHARD GRINDEL: Everyone who is part of the DFB delegation here in Russia is thoroughly disappointed. I feel sorry for the fans who have been looking forward to this World Cup so much. It’s not the job of the president to analyse what went wrong - that’s not my place. That’s what the management is for. It’s up to them to explain what happened and we will draw our consequences from that. We always knew that there would be a rebuilding phase after this World Cup, regardless of how well it went. The presidential board and I have always felt that Joachim Löw is the right person to do that. That isn’t necessarily because of his success in 2014, but more because of what he did with a young team at the 2017 Confed Cup. That’s why we decided to extend his contract until 2022 before the tournament. I am still of that opinion and haven’t heard anything different from any other member of the presidential board.


Well at least we'll get two more years of the gripping drama that is: Jogi vs our NT's potential.​

 

[Luigi Habs]

If he's so good with young players why did he leave them out then?

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Grindel has little to no experience in football but plenty of experience sitting in parliament for the CDU. Explains it all.

 

[cgf]

Grindel has little to no experience in football but plenty of experience sitting in parliament for the CDU. Explains it all.

If only we had a good AfD man in the job!

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

If only we had a good AfD man in the job!

They would certainly be less averse to radical changes and less inclined to hang on to established personnel that's way past their sell-by date.

 

[maclean]

Of course this deal is not a problem for Nagelsmann. And I guess Hoffenheim are so desperate to keep him that they are willing to accept such a crazy deal.

As far as I receall Nagelsmann himself looked forward to taking his team through CL football, so there's good grounds for him not losing interest

 

[Suiteness]

So if Jogi does resign, who are we looking at to take over? I read about Christian Daum the other day, is that really possible and if so, would that be considered a step forward?

 

[Havre]

As far as I receall Nagelsmann himself looked forward to taking his team through CL football, so there's good grounds for him not losing interest

To me this is a bit like playing poker without real money. The game is in theory just as interesting as a pure intellectual exercise, but in reality it just doesn't work that way. Same if you are pretending to invest money on the stock exchange in a competition.

Not to mention how squad players will feel. When they know the manager will be gone anyway will they be able to work as hard in training etc. in theory yes ("they are professionals") in reality probably not.

 

[maclean]

To me this is a bit like playing poker without real money. The game is in theory just as interesting as a pure intellectual exercise, but in reality it just doesn't work that way. Same if you are pretending to invest money on the stock exchange in a competition.

Not to mention how squad players will feel. When they know the manager will be gone anyway will they be able to work as hard in training etc. in theory yes ("they are professionals") in reality probably not.

Oh, I do agree in general. Still vivid in my memory is the Czech football team falling apart in the middle of the Euro when coach Pavel Vrba was making a coaching deal with Makhachkala in the middle of it. Still, I guess I can imagine a situation whereby, at least with the whole thing aboveboard, they can say, all right, when might we get a run at the Champions League again, let's put our all into this as a team.

 

[cgf]

May be my senses on this topic are off just because how often we see this with players in Germany and how rarely it leads them to act less professionally. But I don’t see the TSG players starting to tune Nagelsmann out. If anything I see them being extra motivated to win for him while they still can, like Bayern in their treble season.

Despite how much I gush about him as a tactician & teacher, his abilities as a motivator may be his strongest asset. As those guys will pass their way through a literal minefield for him...

Plus the guys they’ve brought in or promoted are still very much in the still-proving-themselves part of their careers...and they’ll have noticed the extra money that the likes of Wagner, Uth & Rudy earned thanks to Nagelsmann...Süle would’ve ended up at Bayern anyways but Wagner & Rudy? They would never have gotten Bayern money without him & Uth may never have made it to a bigger club like Schalke without him.

Nevermind that some will be advertising themselves to follow him to Leipzig...like I hope Geiger, Amiri & Otto do.

 

[cgf]

So if Jogi does resign, who are we looking at to take over? I read about Christian Daum the other day, is that really possible and if so, would that be considered a step forward?

They’ll probably just promote someone unqualified from within again. And with how bad many of the youth team coaches are, almost any hire from within will be unqualified.

Our best hope is that Jupp’s savior complex can be manipulated into saving the NT until Klopp’s time in Liverpool comes to an end...since Klopp has expressed interest in the NT and has said he wouldn’t want to learn Spanish or coach in La Liga & can’t ever see him coaching Bayern or being excited by a team like PSG. Which leaves few “next challenge”s that make sense for a hipster like Kloppo other than the NT...

...or my Eiserne...

 

[Luigi Habs]

Low is not getting fired. They confirmed he's staying.

 

[cgf]

Low is not getting fired. They confirmed he's staying.

This is fine...

 

[koyvoo]

Confirmed indeed

Low to stay on as Germany coach

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I had started to come to terms with that outcome as it seemed naive to rely on Löw to resign without being prompted to do so. I guess Germans have form in clinging to failed leaders until the bitter end .

 

[Live in the Now]