Management Thread

[rypper]

On a separate note, we all know that Weisbrod is basically now the Director of Amateur Scouting, whether or not in name, but how ****ing hilarious would it be if the guy they choose to hold the title nominally is Brandon Benning. Oh how I would enjoy iMac squirming to explain how he's actually "quite underrated and quietly very effective", or how certain posters here would invent new theories about how he has been the brains behind the operation the entire time.

Brandon Benning does have a storied history of scouting the Nordstrom's region, i'm sure his experience there will pay off greatly if he's made director of amateur scouting.

 

[Addison Rae]

The idea that people must “hate the team” if they don’t blindly support it, is the same argument people used to “hating America” when Kaepernick was kneeling against police brutality.

 

[F A N]

I’ll start by saying the Miller trade worked out, and I think everyone is happy with Miller as a person as a player. But it was a bad trade. TBL were up shit creek with cap problems and Benning threw THEM a 1st rounder to paddle their way to safety with over 5m less weight.
TBL literally had nothing to lose thanks to Benning, it was a win win trade for them. They shed a good player that was just depth to them in order to be able to afford their RFAs they desperately needed to re-sign. They got a 1st rounder from the worst team in the league over the last 4 years to boot. If we miss the playoffs this year then next year they get the 1st which OTT just proved is a dumb move.

The problem with this thinking is that it doesn't take into consideration whether TB traded the right player, a player they deemed most expendable, or a player that was easiest to trade. It's sort of like when the Canucks traded Schneider. We didn't want to trade Schneider. We wanted to trade Luongo. But given the difficulties in trading Luongo and the value Schneider held Gillis decided to trade Schneider instead. You think Gillis would have traded Schneider if teams think the Canucks were up shit creek with cap problems and tried to make a low ball offer for Schneider?

If you look at TB's roster last summer is Miller the guy you prefer to trade? Perhaps because he's coming off a down year but you would have kept Palat over Miller? You think that is a good decision? I can see a win now team keeping Killorn over Miller. I personally would have dumped Killorn's contract instead. Keeping Gourde makes sense as he has was one of TB's best players the previous two seasons but with hindsight are you going to choose Gourde over Miller?

The Canucks traded Grabner because he was apparently "redundant" due to Mason Raymond. This comment by Gillis led to years of posters calling players redundant. But a good player is a good payer. Gillis didn't think you can have too many players like Grabner on the 3rd line. In Grabner's prime he was a valuable 3rd line player with his speed, ability to score goals, PK ability, and modest cap hit. The season after the Canucks traded Grabner he scored 34 goals. Raymond ended up with 15.

 

[Ryp37]

The problem with this thinking is that it doesn't take into consideration whether TB traded the right player, a player they deemed most expendable, or a player that was easiest to trade. It's sort of like when the Canucks traded Schneider. We didn't want to trade Schneider. We wanted to trade Luongo. But given the difficulties in trading Luongo and the value Schneider held Gillis decided to trade Schneider instead. You think Gillis would have traded Schneider if teams think the Canucks were up shit creek with cap problems and tried to make a low ball offer for Schneider?

If you look at TB's roster last summer is Miller the guy you prefer to trade? Perhaps because he's coming off a down year but you would have kept Palat over Miller? You think that is a good decision? I can see a win now team keeping Killorn over Miller. I personally would have dumped Killorn's contract instead. Keeping Gourde makes sense as he has was one of TB's best players the previous two seasons but with hindsight are you going to choose Gourde over Miller?

The Canucks traded Grabner because he was apparently "redundant" due to Mason Raymond. This comment by Gillis led to years of posters calling players redundant. But a good player is a good payer. Gillis didn't think you can have too many players like Grabner on the 3rd line. In Grabner's prime he was a valuable 3rd line player with his speed, ability to score goals, PK ability, and modest cap hit. The season after the Canucks traded Grabner he scored 34 goals. Raymond ended up with 15.

ah yes Grabner, so great at the time of the trade he was waived right after training camp

 

[Sneezy]

The idea that people must “hate the team” if they don’t blindly support it, is the same argument people used to “hating America” when Kaepernick was kneeling against police brutality.

I guess wanting to see the the team lose is supporting the team.

 

[tantalum]

ah yes Grabner, so great at the time of the trade he was waived right after training camp

And specifically remarked in interviews it took getting traded and then waived for him to get his head screwed on straight....

 

[Fatass]

I guess wanting to see the the team lose is supporting the team.

You want us to lose? What?
Are you in that tanking crowd?

 

[ProstheticConscience]

I guess wanting to see the the team lose is supporting the team.

Either you're capable of understanding it's a means to an end that's better for the long-term health of the team, or you're not.

 

[Hit the post]

ah yes Grabner, so great at the time of the trade he was waived right after training camp

Waived so that Darcy useless Hordichuk could take his spot on the Panther's roster.

And here's the thing, Benning himself had at least one chance to sign this guy via free agency.

 

[timw33]

I would rather see the Canucks lose and be proven right about how I feel about this management group, as opposed to seeing the Canucks win and be proven wrong about this management group.

There has been zero evidence that this management has any idea how to build a modern NHL contending team, based on the six years of information we have, so why should we continue giving them the benefit of the doubt as they perpetually show us exactly how broadly incompetent they are?

Also: god forbid we, as fans of this team, have some level of standards instead of just being shovelled slop and clapping like seals because we got another Top-10 pick.

 

[MS]

Or just maybe that's what happens when teams are run by idiots.

And I have yet to hear any explanation for why such a losing culture is not and has not developed here by virtue of the team, you know, losing so much for the last half decade.

One of my favourite things in this whole sorry saga has been the repeated claims from the Benning folks that signing culture carriers like Jay Beagle meant we didn't have a losing culture when we were at the bottom of the league for an extended period of time, not like those losers in Edmonton who totally had a losing culture while being at the bottom of the league for an extended period of time while signing culture carriers like Andrew Ference and Eric Belanger.

 

[Hansen]

Wouldn't be surprised in the least if our team was doing the absolute bare minimum to prepare for the upcoming draft because they assume we won't have our first.

 

[Hansen]

Brandon Benning does have a storied history of scouting the Nordstrom's region, i'm sure his experience there will pay off greatly if he's made director of amateur scouting.

I think he saw Elias Pettersson at a Nordstrom one time

 

[timw33]

Wouldn't be surprised in the least if our team was doing the absolute bare minimum to prepare for the upcoming draft because they assume we won't have our first.

It's fine they will look to acquire more picks precisely at the time when picks are the most expensive they will be all year.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Linden speaking about giving 'autonomy' to the scouts...Basically, saying that 'everybody has a voice'..'honest debate'..and 'building trust in the room'..Obviously,he wanted the scouting debates to be an even playing field where debate is encouraged by all....A far cry from the 'massive division in the room',and 'overruling' which is never inferred....As usual the dramatic narrative pushers here ,are twisting the context..Starts around the 9 minute mark..

Trevor Linden on his relationship now with the Canucks & Jim Benning - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Peter10]

One of my favourite things in this whole sorry saga has been the repeated claims from the Benning folks that signing culture carriers like Jay Beagle meant we didn't have a losing culture when we were at the bottom of the league for an extended period of time, not like those losers in Edmonton who totally had a losing culture while being at the bottom of the league for an extended period of time while signing culture carriers like Andrew Ference and Eric Belanger.

Well, I liked the side story that went from "Benning is a drafting genius" to "Drafting is a collaborative effort"

 

[Hit the post]

Well, I liked the side story that went from "Benning is a drafting genius" to "Drafting is a collaborative effort"

I actually think Benning spends a ton of time amateur scouting. That's part of the problem; as it comes at the expense most of the other duties the GM is supposed to be in charge of. Reason why professional scouting is 'hit or miss' *at best*.

 

[Sneezy]

There has been zero evidence that this management has any idea how to build a modern NHL contending team, based on the six years of information we have, so why should we continue giving them the benefit of the doubt as they perpetually show us exactly how broadly incompetent they are?

Also: god forbid we, as fans of this team, have some level of standards instead of just being shovelled slop and clapping like seals because we got another Top-10 pick.

lol - there has been zero evidence? I guess the points increase from last season to this is not evidence? The fact the team is in the playoffs (yes MS they are) is not evidence? Interesting that the "I hate all things JB" group constantly tells everyone there is no evidence yet at the same time that group provides twitter links or a media person as the "truth" behind what ever they are selling. I mean after all everything a media person writes is the God's honest truth.

 

[Fatass]

Linden speaking about giving 'autonomy' to the scouts...Basically, saying that 'everybody has a voice'..'honest debate'..and 'building trust in the room'..Obviously,he wanted the scouting debates to be an even playing field where debate is encouraged by all....A far cry from the 'massive division in the room',and 'overruling' which is never inferred....As usual the dramatic narrative pushers here ,are twisting the context..Starts around the 9 minute mark..

Trevor Linden on his relationship now with the Canucks & Jim Benning - Sportsnet.ca

Who from the decision making (collaboration) process is left? Benning/Wisebrod. Those two will collaborate, and make the draft selections, because they (especially Benning) are arrogant. Say hello to a Renaissance of our crappy drafting. Heck, maybe Benning/Wisebrod will just trade most of their picks away? Oh, that’s right. They have been already.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Well, I liked the side story that went from "Benning is a drafting genius" to "Drafting is a collaborative effort"

Personally, I liked the side story where the anti-Benning crew tried to pass off opinion as fact (I.e. the blatant lie that Drance confirmed that Benning wanted Glass over Pettersson when Drance CLEARLY stated that he doesn’t actually know what went down). Here was the exact transcript, and here is why the “Benning bro’s” ended up winning the argument in convincing fashion.

The VANcast with JPat and Drancer: Brackett Busting - The Athletic

Thomas Drance:

8:44 - it’s tough for me to know for sure because I wasn’t in the room.
9:19 - and whether Jim was pushing to have Glass HIGHER, whether it was a debate of one vs the other, you know I can’t say it with certainty how far it went, but you know, there are certainly some people within the organization that say, without Linden, the pick is Glass, and on the other side, there are people that insist that, you know, Jim was really high on Pettersson too as was Weisbrod and on and on, so, take that as you will, I don’t know if we’ll ever get the unvarnished story there, but it’s clearly a part of it.

12:00 - Drance even explains why Benning and Weisbrod may have put Hoglander on the draft board (I.e. positional needs) and reiterates that he doesn’t think that this caused any rift between Brackett and Benning.

13:20 - Drance speculates that he thinks the staff departures (I.e. Chris McDonald to Arizona, etc.) is what played a bigger role in Brackett ultimately wanting to leave.

So long story short - some members of the anti-Benning crew tried to pass off speculation as fact, and were quickly proven wrong...to put it politely.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Who from the decision making (collaboration) process is left? Benning/Wisebrod. Those two will collaborate, and make the draft selections, because they (especially Benning) are arrogant. Say hello to a Renaissance of our crappy drafting. Heck, maybe Benning/Wisebrod will just trade most of their picks away? Oh, that’s right. They have been already.

The sky is falling..obviously.

 

[Fatass]

lol - there has been zero evidence? I guess the points increase from last season to this is not evidence? The fact the team is in the playoffs (yes MS they are) is not evidence? Interesting that the "I hate all things JB" group constantly tells everyone there is no evidence yet at the same time that group provides twitter links or a media person as the "truth" behind what ever they are selling. I mean after all everything a media person writes is the God's honest truth.

Benning/Wisebrod sacrificed the future in hopes to become a mediocre bubble team. Nicely done, if that the goal. Considering the number of old crappy players on cap eating contracts, who don’t help us win games, we are very likely to stay mediocre or even get worse. We can’t even resign our goalie!

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

My views on Brackett..Obviously it sucks to lose a bright ,hard working , person from your organization...Him wanting control of all the picks (if true) would be a bit cheeky, after it was Benning that took him, and mentored him from virtual obscurity..

Conversely, Brackett is the Director of Scouting...and he should have been consulted by the management before they fired his staff ,and replaced them with other people...not cool.

 

[MS]

Linden speaking about giving 'autonomy' to the scouts...Basically, saying that 'everybody has a voice'..'honest debate'..and 'building trust in the room'..Obviously,he wanted the scouting debates to be an even playing field where debate is encouraged by all....A far cry from the 'massive division in the room',and 'overruling' which is never inferred....As usual the dramatic narrative pushers here ,are twisting the context..Starts around the 9 minute mark..

Trevor Linden on his relationship now with the Canucks & Jim Benning - Sportsnet.ca

Linden:
- Debates on this pick were heated.
- Judd and his guys had to argue hard for Pettersson.
- allowing the guys who have only seen the players play a few times to have authority to make picks over the scouts who have actually watched them play is dangerous.
- I felt I had to give Judd the autonomy to take the guy that he and the scouting group wanted.

Multiple media sources :
- there was a Brackett camp and a Pettersson camp.
- Linden stepped in to side with Brackett on Pettersson.

Do. The. Math. If Benning was on board with the pick, NONE of those things happens or is being reported or quoted that way. There is no plausible scenario, as you've shown with your inability to provide one when challenged multiple times to do so.

Yes, clearly Linden wanted drafting to be a collaborative process. And what he's saying is that Brackett was on board with that, and he's firing a shot across Benning's bow because Benning did not want to be collaborative. Like, how are you not able to read the room here in terms of the tone of Linden's comments? It is absolutely mindboggling that you're trying to portray that interview as supporting Benning or anything about Benning in any way, and are accusing others of 'twisting the context'.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

lol - there has been zero evidence? I guess the points increase from last season to this is not evidence? The fact the team is in the playoffs (yes MS they are) is not evidence? Interesting that the "I hate all things JB" group constantly tells everyone there is no evidence yet at the same time that group provides twitter links or a media person as the "truth" behind what ever they are selling. I mean after all everything a media person writes is the God's honest truth.

How come you consider the Qualifying Rounds to be the playoffs, when the NHL doesn't?