Management Thread

[timw33]

The fact the team is in the playoffs

The play in round is not the playoffs, Bettman was clear about this.

 

[rypper]

Linden speaking about giving 'autonomy' to the scouts...Basically, saying that 'everybody has a voice'..'honest debate'..and 'building trust in the room'..Obviously,he wanted the scouting debates to be an even playing field where debate is encouraged by all....A far cry from the 'massive division in the room',and 'overruling' which is never inferred....As usual the dramatic narrative pushers here ,are twisting the context..Starts around the 9 minute mark..

Trevor Linden on his relationship now with the Canucks & Jim Benning - Sportsnet.ca

Man I forgot how awkward and cold that response at the end to "Do you still talk to Jim Benning...?" was. Yeah that's not a happy relationship.

 

[RobertKron]

How come you consider the Qualifying Rounds to be the playoffs, when the NHL doesn't?

well yeah, they’ve made the playoffs every year under benning. This is just like those other years where they made the playoffs to make the second playoffs.

 

[Jyrki21]

Either you're capable of understanding it's a means to an end that's better for the long-term health of the team, or you're not.

Nah, I think we can all agree that if ever you vote against the sitting head of government, you are a traitor to your country who does not deserve to benefit from the state.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Linden stepped in to side with Brackett on Pettersson.

And as I’ve proven numerous times now, this was pure speculation and the sources that you’ve cited even openly admitted as such. ALL of them! Not ONE single source of yours that you and many of the “anti-Benning” crew have cited, CONFIRMED anything. Period.

You and the anti-Benning crew can go around screaming this as many times as you like, but this doesn’t change the fact.

Benning wanting Glass over Pettersson is speculative at best.

 

[Cupless44]

Havent posted for a while with no hockey but It is annoying to see Bracket go. Even more annoying is seeing talent like Bracket and Gilman leave while Benning and bloody Weisbrod solidify their power. Not very reassuring

 

[ProstheticConscience]

One of my favourite things in this whole sorry saga has been the repeated claims from the Benning folks that signing culture carriers like Jay Beagle meant we didn't have a losing culture when we were at the bottom of the league for an extended period of time, not like those losers in Edmonton who totally had a losing culture while being at the bottom of the league for an extended period of time while signing culture carriers like Andrew Ference and Eric Belanger.

It's just another avenue of obfuscation. When you've got nothing tangible to brag about, talk about "intangibles".

Well, I liked the side story that went from "Benning is a drafting genius" to "Drafting is a collaborative effort"

Would like this if I could.

lol - there has been zero evidence? I guess the points increase from last season to this is not evidence? The fact the team is in the playoffs (yes MS they are) is not evidence? Interesting that the "I hate all things JB" group constantly tells everyone there is no evidence yet at the same time that group provides twitter links or a media person as the "truth" behind what ever they are selling. I mean after all everything a media person writes is the God's honest truth.

The Canucks are not in the playoffs as of now. That's already been confirmed. The first round pick they traded for Miller is still up in the air, as it the question of whether they managed to clear the low bar of making the playoffs at all, which, after six years isn't really that great a feat.

That poster is a coward lol. He'll make a post stirring the pot ("you're not a real fan") and then report all subsequent posts that call him out and have the whole thing deleted. He's just an elaborate troll who tries to guilt trip posters who show the slightest signs of criticism of the team. I think he'd probably fit in better on Reddit or Canucks Corner.

My guess is we've seen him before.

And as I’ve proven numerous times now, this was pure speculation and the sources that you’ve cited even openly admitted as such. ALL of them! Not ONE single source of yours that you and many of the “anti-Benning” crew have cited, CONFIRMED anything. Period.

You and the anti-Benning crew can go around screaming this as many times as you like, but this doesn’t change the fact.

Benning wanting Glass over Pettersson is speculative at best.

You really do think this, don't you?

 

[Horse McHindu]

You really do think this, don't you?

Don’t take my word for it......take Thomas Drance’s word instead:


The VANcast with JPat and Drancer: Brackett Busting - The Athletic

Thomas Drance:

8:44 - it’s tough for me to know for sure because I wasn’t in the room.
9:19 - and whether Jim was pushing to have Glass HIGHER, whether it was a debate of one vs the other, you know I can’t say it with certainty how far it went, but you know, there are certainly some people within the organization that say, without Linden, the pick is Glass, and on the other side, there are people that insist that, you know, Jim was really high on Pettersson too as was Weisbrod and on and on, so, take that as you will, I don’t know if we’ll ever get the unvarnished story there, but it’s clearly a part of it.

12:00 - Drance even explains why Benning and Weisbrod may have put Hoglander on the draft board (I.e. positional needs) and reiterates that he doesn’t think that this caused any rift between Brackett and Benning.

13:20 - Drance speculates that he thinks the staff departures (I.e. Chris McDonald to Arizona, etc.) is what played a bigger role in Brackett ultimately wanting to leave.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Don’t take my word for it......take Thomas Drance’s word instead:


The VANcast with JPat and Drancer: Brackett Busting - The Athletic

Thomas Drance:

8:44 - it’s tough for me to know for sure because I wasn’t in the room.
9:19 - and whether Jim was pushing to have Glass HIGHER, whether it was a debate of one vs the other, you know I can’t say it with certainty how far it went, but you know, there are certainly some people within the organization that say, without Linden, the pick is Glass, and on the other side, there are people that insist that, you know, Jim was really high on Pettersson too as was Weisbrod and on and on, so, take that as you will, I don’t know if we’ll ever get the unvarnished story there, but it’s clearly a part of it.

12:00 - Drance even explains why Benning and Weisbrod may have put Hoglander on the draft board (I.e. positional needs) and reiterates that he doesn’t think that this caused any rift between Brackett and Benning.

13:20 - Drance speculates that he thinks the staff departures (I.e. Chris McDonald to Arizona, etc.) is what played a bigger role in Brackett ultimately wanting to leave.

So you're just going to pretend you never saw the stuff about Linden in the other thread? Thought so.

Your refusal to believe a source or your inability to understand it does not equate to you proving or disproving anything.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

And as I’ve proven numerous times now, this was pure speculation and the sources that you’ve cited even openly admitted as such. ALL of them! Not ONE single source of yours that you and many of the “anti-Benning” crew have cited, CONFIRMED anything. Period.

You and the anti-Benning crew can go around screaming this as many times as you like, but this doesn’t change the fact.

Benning wanting Glass over Pettersson is speculative at best.

It doesn't matter how many links or sources you give this guy, it wont make the slightest bit of difference...The bitterness is obviously ingrained, and you're not going to change his mind (even if Linden told it to his face)..Its Ryan Miller for a 9th all over again, believed by a handful of people in the alternate universe which is HF Canucks.

This topic of Linden 'ovverrruling' is a non issue on Reddit,CDC, and the mainstream media.

 

[Horse McHindu]

So you're just going to pretend you never saw the stuff about Linden in the other thread? Thought so.

Your refusal to believe a source or your inability to understand it does not equate to you proving or disproving anything.

Im not “pretending” anything. ALL of the sources that have been cited, openly admitted, directly or indirectly, that they were speculating. Trevor Linden speaking about “scouting reports autonomy” does not equate to Benning wanting Glass over Pettersson. It’s inconclusive evidence. Period.

 

[Orca Smash]

It doesn't matter how many links or sources you give this guy, it wont make the slightest bit of difference...The bitterness is obviously ingrained, and you're not going to change his mind (even if Linden told it to his face)..Its Ryan Miller for a 9th all over again, believed by a handful of people in the alternate universe which is HF Canucks.

This topic of Linden 'ovverrruling' is a non issue on Reddit,CDC, and the mainstream media.

Certainly see it discussed on twitter and radio...

 

[Sneezy]

That poster is a coward lol. He'll make a post stirring the pot ("you're not a real fan") and then report all subsequent posts that call him out and have the whole thing deleted. He's just an elaborate troll who tries to guilt trip posters who show the slightest signs of criticism of the team. I think he'd probably fit in better on Reddit or Canucks Corner.

Coward - nah you talk about fans not accepting how bad the team is an you call them a coward? I think you are a coward for not looking at how well this team progressed over the past few years and you feel the need to jump all over anyone who thinks differently.

I see a very bright future with the core of this team but if I am a coward for thinking that then so be it.

 

[Horse McHindu]

It doesn't matter how many links or sources you give this guy, it wont make the slightest bit of difference...The bitterness is obviously ingrained, and you're not going to change his mind (even if Linden told it to his face)..Its Ryan Miller for a 9th all over again, believed by a handful of people in the alternate universe which is HF Canucks.

This topic of Linden 'ovverrruling' is a non issue on Reddit,CDC, and the mainstream media.

What really unnerves me the most was how one of the posters on here (I won’t name him.....it was not MS), directly linked to the Vancast podcast on Brackett, and then took cliff notes in a very disingenuous way in order to blatantly lie to the public on here, which even lead to me openly wondering if Thomas Drance was sprouting libel and slander. I admit this was wrong of me because I should have checked out the source first. I just didn’t think in a million years that this poster would blatantly and quite flagrantly leave out important pieces of information. Vancast is a subscription based podcast and so perhaps this poster assumed that others wouldn’t take the time to sign up and listen to the podcast and would just take his word instead.

Anyways, after listening to the podcast myself (only about 10-15 minutes of the podcast talked about the Brackett situation), I was quite shocked as to what kinds of information was deliberately left out by this poster.

What disappointed me even more, was how certain “anti-Benning” posters literally started celebrating once they thought it was “confirmed” that Benning wanted Glass over Pettersson.

It’s moreso disappointing because,

1) Pettersson wasn’t even first introduced to the Canucks by Brackett. It was Delorme. Delorme was the first guy to get the Canucks brass to really start paying attention to Petey......which makes the whole “Glass vs. Pettersson” debate in a “Farewell Brackett” thread even more absurd and childish.

2) Drafting is a collaborative process. Win as a team, lose as a team. It’s almost irrelevant as to “who wanted who.” And if we are going to play that game, ALL of our guys involved have had major wins. Brackett wanted Boeser, Madden, etc. Delorme first discovered Petey. Weisbrod wanted Hughes. Benning and Weisbrod put some priority on Hoglander. Ultimately though, it doesn’t matter! There is no I in team.

Why certain people on here want to deliberately and viciously erase any kind of success that Benning has had to do in this organization, is just so unnerving. Thankfully, the mass majority of Canuck fans do not share this mindset.

 

[MS]

It doesn't matter how many links or sources you give this guy, it wont make the slightest bit of difference...The bitterness is obviously ingrained, and you're not going to change his mind (even if Linden told it to his face)..Its Ryan Miller for a 9th all over again, believed by a handful of people in the alternate universe which is HF Canucks.

This topic of Linden 'ovverrruling' is a non issue on Reddit,CDC, and the mainstream media.

Respond to my previous post and explain a possible meaning for Linden's comments other than he stepped in to sort a scouting disagreement between Benning and Weisbrod in favour of Benning.

Again :

- Linden specifically called out the danger of 'guys who haven't seen the prospects play much' making decisions, which could only refer to Benning and Weisbrod.
- he said there was a 'heated debate'
- he said Brackett and his team had to fight hard for the pick.
- he said it was important to him to allow Brackett and his staff to have the autonomy to take the player they wanted.

- multiple media sources have confirmed that there was a Pettersson vs. Glass scouting debate.

There is only one possible explanation for this. If Jim Benning was sold on Elias Petterson as the player we should have selected, and was backing Judd Brackett's recommendation, none of this stuff happens. It's impossible. The President of an NHL club isn't stepping in on a draft pick where the scouting director and GM are in agreement about who should be selected.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Coward - nah you talk about fans not accepting how bad the team is an you call them a coward? I think you are a coward for not looking at how well this team progressed over the past few years and you feel the need to jump all over anyone who thinks differently.

I see a very bright future with the core of this team but if I am a coward for thinking that then so be it.

The coward part was directed at you purposefully provoking people by telling them they aren't real fans because they criticize management (based on logical reasons), and then when people respond to your post, you report the posts and the whole thing is deleted. To me, that seems pretty cowardly, as you purposefully troll people and then run away and play the victim card. Huge weasel move.

I don't know how many times it needs to be said, but people can simultaneously root for the team but dislike management. The fact that you seem to conflate critical posts with those posters not actually liking the team just shows that you can't reconcile the two concepts.

I don't know if you're purposefully missing the point, or unintentionally doing it, but either way it's a bad look.

 

[Diamonddog01]

And as I’ve proven numerous times now, this was pure speculation and the sources that you’ve cited even openly admitted as such. ALL of them! Not ONE single source of yours that you and many of the “anti-Benning” crew have cited, CONFIRMED anything. Period.

You and the anti-Benning crew can go around screaming this as many times as you like, but this doesn’t change the fact.

Benning wanting Glass over Pettersson is speculative at best.

Best not to get too worked up over it. He will keep repeating this and appears to be on some sort of a bizarre quest to force feed it down everyone’s throats despite his "source" being revealed as incredibly dubious. The facts don’t confirm any of this narrative, at least as we know them at this time. The only thing we really know is that there was a healthy debate and that Glass was never higher than Pettersson on their draft list. Anything else is trying to read a novel into the word autonomy.

 

[The Drop]

Linden gave autonomy to select Pettersson while JB wanted Glass.
People can continue to try and refute this but it’s a fact.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Best not to get too worked up over it. He will keep repeating this and appears to be on some sort of a bizarre quest to force feed it down everyone’s throats. The facts don’t confirm any of this narrative, at least as we know them at this time. The only thing we really know is that there was a healthy debate and that Glass was never higher than Pettersson on their draft list. Anything else is trying to read a novel into the word autonomy.

I mean, I do get where he’s coming from in “trying to put the pieces together,” but what he fails to realize is that it’s all speculation. Period.

He talks about Linden “having to step in,” but Linden himself never said that he quote unquote “stepped in.” To anything. There’s a quote from Linden stating that he thought it was important for scouts to have autonomy to make picks, but that in no way ties Benning to wanting Glass over Pettersson, and we simply can’t make that leap in logic because we want to paint Benning in the worst light possible.

Every single report and source that I’ve read out there, indicates the following:

1) Benning was extremely high on Pettersson.
2) The *only* guy that Benning may have wanted more than Pettersson, was Cale Makar.
3) Absolutely no credible source out there implied that Benning preferred Glass to Pettersson.

Out of all the sources out there that have SPECULATED about things, here is one link where you can find a direct quote from Benning:

Draft notebook: If Makar was available, Canucks could have been sweating

This is the *only* link where Benning openly talks about possibly wanting and selecting another player over Pettersson if the option was there.

“That would have been a hard decision with his (Makar’s) mobility but we kind of had a feeling that both defensemen (Makar and Heiskanen) would be gone. We were checking out a couple guys and Pettersson was the one we wanted.”

Taking all of this into account, this is what prompted me to come up with my OWN theory and speculation (speculation and theory being the operative words here). @carrotshirt

“Perhaps there was an internal heated debate between the scouts and Benning/Weisbrod, but perhaps it was Benning and Weisbrod advocating the idea of moving up in the draft so that they could draft Makar, while maybe the scouts felt that attempting to trade up from Pettersson to Makar wasn’t worth it due to the negligible differences.”

Again - speculation......just as I had originally prefaced it.

All of the sources at CanucksArmy and The Athletic also prefaced their statements as speculation.

Unfortunately, what made all of this a very toxic (and disturbing) experience was certain people decided to link to sources (that were openly speculating and said as such), and tried to pass it off as “fact” or inappropriately attempt to connect the dots (based off the speculation), and then present it as fact.......all in a deliberate attempt to make Benning look bad.

We are all Canucks.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Best not to get too worked up over it. He will keep repeating this and appears to be on some sort of a bizarre quest to force feed it down everyone’s throats. The facts don’t confirm any of this narrative, at least as we know them at this time. The only thing we really know is that there was a healthy debate and that Glass was never higher than Pettersson on their draft list. Anything else is trying to read a novel into the word autonomy.

The naysayers have cherrypicked the 'I gave the scouts autonomy' quote (see my post #940) without listening to Lindens comments on the matter after. (in this interview, and Botchfords ,2018)... Linden goes on to explain that he wanted 'everybody voice in the room to be heard'...basically,..an 'even playing field..free speech' regardless of rank within the organization....This is the 'autonomy he was talking about'...They debated hard, and picked the right guy....

The 'tone deaf' committee has pushed their narratives of 'major divides, and overruling' where clearly..that was not in the spirit of the proceedings..as explained by Linden himself ('good healthy debate)..

 

[The Drop]

Linden:
- Debates on this pick were heated.
- Judd and his guys had to argue hard for Pettersson.
- allowing the guys who have only seen the players play a few times to have authority to make picks over the scouts who have actually watched them play is dangerous.
- I felt I had to give Judd the autonomy to take the guy that he and the scouting group wanted.

Multiple media sources :
- there was a Brackett camp and a Pettersson camp.
- Linden stepped in to side with Brackett on Pettersson.

Do. The. Math. If Benning was on board with the pick, NONE of those things happens or is being reported or quoted that way. There is no plausible scenario, as you've shown with your inability to provide one when challenged multiple times to do so.

Yes, clearly Linden wanted drafting to be a collaborative process. And what he's saying is that Brackett was on board with that, and he's firing a shot across Benning's bow because Benning did not want to be collaborative. Like, how are you not able to read the room here in terms of the tone of Linden's comments? It is absolutely mindboggling that you're trying to portray that interview as supporting Benning or anything about Benning in any way, and are accusing others of 'twisting the context'.

It’s clear as day. Everything is there. It’s like people arguing the ending of Sopranos. All of the evidence is there in front of you if you look at it objectively.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Linden gave autonomy to select Pettersson while JB wanted Glass.
People can continue to try and refute this but it’s a fact.

Thanks for coming out dude..what else did they say while you were at the scouting meetings?

 

[Horse McHindu]

Linden gave autonomy to select Pettersson while JB wanted Glass.
People can continue to try and refute this but it’s a fact.

It’s been proven that this wasn’t fact. It was speculation.

(Refer to Thomas Drance transcription from Vancast podcast).

Drance was quoted AT VERBATIM saying that it’s all speculation. Period.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

It’s been proven that this wasn’t fact. It was speculation.

(Refer to Thomas Drance transcription from Vancast podcast).

Drance was quoted AT VERBATIM saying that it’s all speculation. Period.

You can believe this if it makes you feel better. There's room to believe either side and we'll never get 100% confirmation because that's just not how these situations ever unfold.

I think on a balance of probabilities, and what situation is more likely, it makes more sense to believe that Linden's quote refers to at least one of Benning or Weisbrod preferring Glass over Pettersson. It's a scenario that you just need to employ the process of elimination - if the scouting department wanted Pettersson, and there was a divide on who to pick - that just leaves Weisbrod and Benning, right? I guess there is a possibility that Benning was torn between the two/preferred Pettersson, and Weisbrod pushed hard for Glass...but I don't see how only Weisbrod dissenting would cause a divide between management and the scouting department, that seems like a reach.

 

[Horse McHindu]

You can believe this if it makes you feel better. There's room to believe either side and we'll never get 100% confirmation because that's just not how these situations ever unfold.

In a roundabout way, you are basically agreeing with me that this is all speculation.

Since there is far more evidence out there to support that Benning’s number one choice was actually Cale Makar, I think it’s actually more likely that Benning may have been pushing hard behind the scenes to trade for Makar (which is what may have caused an internal debate if there ever was one). Again - SPECULATION.

Unfortunately, many posters do not want to consider this theory because Benning wanting to move up and select Makar doesn’t really paint Benning into too bad of a light. The Glass thing however would paint a terrible light on Benning.......which is why certain posters on here have gone as far as deliberately misquoting the sources that they’ve cited while attempting to pass off their speculation as fact. It’s a tired act. I’m tired of it and most other positive Canuck fans that want to cheer this team after 5 long years are tired of it. And we don’t appreciate it.