Management Thread

[Hit the post]

It's worse than that. The chain of logic here is so bad it's actually difficult to comprehend.
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Then there was the issue of Vrbata. Guy signed here with the chance to play with the Sedins. And he did what he was supposed to do when riding shotgun on that line scoring 30+ goals that first season. Gets Sutter & NHL coaching genius Willie D decides to put the center Sutter as a winger for the Sedins initially (dealing Bonino, the only other guy Vrbata showed any chemistry with, to acquire Sutter). Vrbata's play craters (didn't help Vrbata acted unprofessionally by pouting) predictably.

heh, deja vu.....rinse, repeat.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Tried to sign Dave Bolland to a franchise crippling deal.
Tried to trade the Boeser pick plus other assets (Markstrom rumoured) for Milan Lucic and sign him to a franchise crippling deal.
Tried again to sign Lucic to a franchise crippling deal.
Tried to trade Horvat + Tanev +#5 overall for PK Subban.
Pushed for the team to draft Cody Glass instead of Elias Pettersson but was overruled by Linden.

The Benning supporters love to avoid discussing the actual issues, like those you have mentioned, in favour of labelling critics as negative, not real fans, etc. and trying to put a ridiculous spin on things that focuses on the individual, rather than the argument that they are advancing. But when you look at the facts like your post contains, how the hell are fans supposed to be positive or have confidence in this management? And just because the facts and circumstances suck doesn't mean the people who point them out are negative. It's like, you wouldn't expect people to talk positively about 9/11 or COVID-19 because they are inherently terrible situations. Same goes for Canucks management. There have been so many red flags along the way that we're left standing in the middle of a mine field now.

 

[MS]

The Benning supporters love to avoid discussing the actual issues, like those you have mentioned, in favour of labelling critics as negative, not real fans, etc. and trying to put a ridiculous spin on things that focuses on the individual, rather than the argument that they are advancing. But when you look at the facts like your post contains, how the hell are fans supposed to be positive or have confidence in this management? And just because the facts and circumstances suck doesn't mean the people who point them out are negative. It's like, you wouldn't expect people to talk positively about 9/11 or COVID-19 because they are inherently terrible situations. Same goes for Canucks management. There have been so many red flags along the way that we're left standing in the middle of a mine field now.

If Benning had taken over an EPL soccer team in 2014 and managed that team exactly how he's managed this one, he would have plunged that team down to the 3rd or 4th tier of their league system by this point, while trying to be competitive for most of it.

It's absolutely insanity that the NHL's draft system - which rewards incompetence with the highest picks to take the best young players in the draft - somehow shields him and convinces people he's done a great job because we 'magically' have accumulated several good young players he got completely by accident.

 

[Horse McHindu]

“A successful rebuild should only take three years. Trade away anyone over the age of 25 for draft picks, play the numbers game and watch some of these late round picks turn into Brayden Point, and build a competitive team. You now have late round gems like Point, along with the firsts that you’ve accumulated. It’s that simple boys. I’m just surprised that no other GM in the league has really done this! I wonder why?! Perhaps they are all old dinosaurs.”

 

[Sneezy]

The Benning supporters love to avoid discussing the actual issues, like those you have mentioned, in favour of labelling critics as negative, not real fans, etc. and trying to put a ridiculous spin on things that focuses on the individual, rather than the argument that they are advancing. But when you look at the facts like your post contains, how the hell are fans supposed to be positive or have confidence in this management? And just because the facts and circumstances suck doesn't mean the people who point them out are negative. It's like, you wouldn't expect people to talk positively about 9/11 or COVID-19 because they are inherently terrible situations. Same goes for Canucks management. There have been so many red flags along the way that we're left standing in the middle of a mine field now.

Are you really comparing JB to 9/11 and COVID19 which has killed thousand of people. And the MODS allow it here? Wow. Dude you are really messed up to even say something like this.

 

[RobertKron]

Are you really comparing JB to 9/11 and COVID19 which has killed thousand of people. And the MODS allow it here? Wow. Dude you are really messed up to even say something like this.

you’re going to break those pearls if you clutch them that hard.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

“A successful rebuild should only take three years. Trade away anyone over the age of 25 for draft picks, play the numbers game and watch some of these late round picks turn into Brayden Point, and build a competitive team. You now have late round gems like Point, along with the firsts that you’ve accumulated. It’s that simple boys. I’m just surprised that no other GM in the league has really done this! I wonder why?! Perhaps they are all old dinosaurs.”

Have you ever made a post about management without smacking away at a strawman? Like, one?

 

[Hit the post]

"“A successful rebuild should only take three years. "

Geebus.....I didn't realize today's date was May 26, 2017.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Are you really comparing JB to 9/11 and COVID19 which has killed thousand of people. And the MODS allow it here? Wow. Dude you are really messed up to even say something like this.

It's an analogy. You'd have to be pretty dumb to take an analogy literally.
I'm saying that people aren't negative/cynical because they point out the circumstances they find themselves in. If someone is in a somber mood when discussing 9/11, it's not because they're a negative person.

I'm not comparing our management to 9/11. The takeaway is that pointing out bad circumstances doesn't make a person negative, it's just calling a spade a spade.

 

[Knight53]

Tried to sign Dave Bolland to a franchise crippling deal.
Tried to trade the Boeser pick plus other assets (Markstrom rumoured) for Milan Lucic and sign him to a franchise crippling deal.
Tried again to sign Lucic to a franchise crippling deal.
Tried to trade Horvat + Tanev +#5 overall for PK Subban.
Pushed for the team to draft Cody Glass instead of Elias Pettersson but was overruled by Linden.

As terrible a GM as Benning has been, he's actually been incredibly *lucky* that things weren't a lot worse and that his preferred plans didn't come to fruition.

He also tried to trade the 7th overall pick (Hughes) for Hanifin.

And had Podkolzin not been their at 10th overall he would have traded the 10th plus Virtanen for Barrie.

Crazy to think what the team would look like had Benning got his way.

 

[Jyrki21]

It's like, you wouldn't expect people to talk positively about 9/11 or COVID-19 because they are inherently terrible situations.

Ahem...

 

[y2kcanucks]

Ahem...

The Boncast

 

[xtra]

Ahem...

I can’t give you a like so you get a socially distanced hug

 

[F A N]

The Benning supporters love to avoid discussing the actual issues, like those you have mentioned, in favour of labelling critics as negative, not real fans, etc. and trying to put a ridiculous spin on things that focuses on the individual, rather than the argument that they are advancing. But when you look at the facts like your post contains, how the hell are fans supposed to be positive or have confidence in this management? And just because the facts and circumstances suck doesn't mean the people who point them out are negative. It's like, you wouldn't expect people to talk positively about 9/11 or COVID-19 because they are inherently terrible situations. Same goes for Canucks management. There have been so many red flags along the way that we're left standing in the middle of a mine field now.

It's usually just having a different perspective but the fact that you are applying a large paint brush to those you label as "Benning supporters" is pot calling the kettle...

It's like, you wouldn't expect people to talk positively about 9/11 or COVID-19 because they are inherently terrible situations

Why wouldn't you expect that? I don't expect people to cheer for those events happening but the fact is there are positives to COVID-19 such as reduction in air pollution. For many folks who did not lose their jobs or have their hours reduced the positive is probably saving a lot of money from not eating out.

Back to talking about hockey. Bolland is known to troll the Canucks. Remember his comments about the Sedins being sisters who sleep in bunk beds? He also said there are a lot of weirdos in Vancouver. Just this year he tweeted about being stuck on a plane in Vancouver and wanted to get out of the city because he didn't want to be here. When he signed with Florida he said that money was the deciding factor. Yet we are to believe the Canucks offered him the most lucrative contract to sign here? There were ZERO reports at the time that the Canucks offered him the most money and he chose not to sign here. There was no interview of Benning talking about having made a competitive offer. Bolland was one of the biggest names on the UFA market and heavily covered at the time.

With that said, a quarter of NHL teams were interested in signing Bolland. The Canucks being interested isn't a surprise and not signing Bolland is a dodging the bullet. But lets not pretend that good teams and GMs don't dodge bullets all the time. Toronto wanted to re-sign Bolland and was reportedly willing to pay $5M AAV rather than the $5.5M he got from Florida. Gillis went after Ryane Clowe with an extension in place. Some bad moves are forgotten because the team is winning. But I do think it's fair. Winning isn't everything but it's the only thing?

Miller just turned 27 years old, he's tied for 1st on the team in goals with Petey, tied for 1st in assists on the team in assists with Hughes and leads the team with 72 points in 69 games (6 more points than Petey and 19 more points than Horvat) and Benning haters are still arguing that it was a bad trade because of timing...

 

[Canadian Canuck]

There’s no way Benning keeps his job if Canucks lose the Wild Series...right?? He shouldn’t keep it regardless but they’d have no choice?...

 

[Horse McHindu]

Then there was the issue of Vrbata. Guy signed here with the chance to play with the Sedins. And he did what he was supposed to do when riding shotgun on that line scoring 30+ goals that first season. Gets Sutter & NHL coaching genius Willie D decides to put the center Sutter as a winger for the Sedins initially (dealing Bonino, the only other guy Vrbata showed any chemistry with, to acquire Sutter). Vrbata's play craters (didn't help Vrbata acted unprofessionally by pouting) predictably.

heh, deja vu.....rinse, repeat.

Now this I will agree with 1000%

I myself was completely mystified on how Vrbata was treated here.

He was used perfectly during season one and produced almost exactly how he was supposed to.

In season two however, he rarely (if ever?) saw time with the twins and was given centers/used in roles that weren’t conducive to his game at all.

Vrbata had every right to be upset.

I didn’t understand why Vrbata was used in the way that he was during his second season here.

 

[Fatass]

There’s no way Benning keeps his job if Canucks lose the Wild Series...right?? He shouldn’t keep it regardless but they’d have no choice?...

Sadly, it looks like Benning/Wisebrod have duped owner. Win or lose, and those two will not only be back, but (the frightening part) they will even more control.

 

[Fatass]

It's usually just having a different perspective but the fact that you are applying a large paint brush to those you label as "Benning supporters" is pot calling the kettle...



Why wouldn't you expect that? I don't expect people to cheer for those events happening but the fact is there are positives to COVID-19 such as reduction in air pollution. For many folks who did not lose their jobs or have their hours reduced the positive is probably saving a lot of money from not eating out.

Back to talking about hockey. Bolland is known to troll the Canucks. Remember his comments about the Sedins being sisters who sleep in bunk beds? He also said there are a lot of weirdos in Vancouver. Just this year he tweeted about being stuck on a plane in Vancouver and wanted to get out of the city because he didn't want to be here. When he signed with Florida he said that money was the deciding factor. Yet we are to believe the Canucks offered him the most lucrative contract to sign here? There were ZERO reports at the time that the Canucks offered him the most money and he chose not to sign here. There was no interview of Benning talking about having made a competitive offer. Bolland was one of the biggest names on the UFA market and heavily covered at the time.

With that said, a quarter of NHL teams were interested in signing Bolland. The Canucks being interested isn't a surprise and not signing Bolland is a dodging the bullet. But lets not pretend that good teams and GMs don't dodge bullets all the time. Toronto wanted to re-sign Bolland and was reportedly willing to pay $5M AAV rather than the $5.5M he got from Florida. Gillis went after Ryane Clowe with an extension in place. Some bad moves are forgotten because the team is winning. But I do think it's fair. Winning isn't everything but it's the only thing?

Miller just turned 27 years old, he's tied for 1st on the team in goals with Petey, tied for 1st in assists on the team in assists with Hughes and leads the team with 72 points in 69 games (6 more points than Petey and 19 more points than Horvat) and Benning haters are still arguing that it was a bad trade because of timing...

Miller made us a bubble playoff team. Is that the ultimate goal; being a mediocre team? In three seasons, when Miller is gone, where will the first we gave up for him be playing? The timing of the Miller trade was too soon in our rebuilding (or however we define Benning’s plan) phase.
It’s like your connection of Covid 19 closures improving air quality. The air is still poor; this is only a temporary improvement to mediocrity. As people go back to commuting, they will choose to drive (instead of transit from fear of the virus) which will mean a lot more traffic. Hence a lot more pollution. In both the Miller trade and the Covid impact on air pollution they are only Temporary improvements to mediocre. And then things actually get worse than they were before.
Horrible trade by Benning/Wisebrod.

 

[Hit the post]

Miller made us a bubble playoff team. .

Eddie Lack did more than clean Miller's jockstrap that one season as well.

(oops, I hear Bovinder coming!)

 

[iceburg]

'Some good things and some bad things' inaccurately levels the lopsided nature of Benning's bad moves to good moves. This is akin to saying Milbury had some good moves and some bad moves. It appears as equal weighting, though that may not have been your intent?

On being tired of the debate: I get it. I've seen this said time and again. As a reaction, I've also seen some push for a middle-ground sentiment. This, however, is striving for an ideal that does not fit the data. If a GM's work is polarizing, then the middle ground opinion is the outlier least supported by the information at hand.

Overall, I take solace in the fact that the fundamentals to this debate ended years ago. You would have to go back to find the last best case made for Benning. Now, it's just the remnants of previously dispelled notions.

Even with Benning given credit for the drafting, he still fails at the majority of his job. Then we learn that Brackett made all non-Juolevi picks. Then the subversion of his head scout etc... Whatever there was to hold his tattered legacy in place is slowly being undone, rumour by rumour.

I don’t typically trade in rumours. I get that they are entertaining and “where there’s smoke there’s fire” but rumours quickly get turned into fact in the internet so I like to see data.
On the relativity of Benning’s moves, I agree not all moves are equal and, yes, that wasn’t my intent if you thought that’s what I was implying. Nevertheless, how do you weight good and bad moves? What is the cumulative effect of a good and bad move. If you’re going to weight the moves, then you have to extend the impact to secondary and tertiary effects. Let’s take the two Millers. I didn’t like the Ryan Miller signing. But how much worse would it be if we considered any delay in Markstrom’s development? I liked the JT Miller trade but how much better is it if he shows JV how to get his act together?
My point is that as soon as you start to weight moves, unless you have a relevant quantitative metric(s) that show the full impact, you are on shaky ground.
In these cases, it is sometimes better to take a higher level view. For example, how successful has the team been during Benning’s tenure? After multiple attempts to have success sooner rather than later, it is a failure by anyone’s analysis.

 

[timw33]

There’s no way Benning keeps his job if Canucks lose the Wild Series...right?? He shouldn’t keep it regardless but they’d have no choice?...

I feel like we shouldn't sleep on the Wild, who after looking like toast at the 20 game mark have clawed their way back in and won 8 of their last 10 games on the back of Kevin Fiala deciding to become an elite player in the last 35 games.

This should be a close series either way, however, in a 5 game series where no one has played in 5 months it could also just be extremely random.

 

[Hit the post]

I feel like we shouldn't sleep on the Wild, who after looking like toast at the 20 game mark have clawed their way back in and won 8 of their last 10 games on the back of Kevin Fiala deciding to become an elite player in the last 35 games.

This should be a close series either way, however, in a 5 game series where no one has played in 5 months it could also just be extremely random.

Markstrom could steal a game or two. That might be enough in a 5 game series.

When is the "meaningful games in June" banner going up in Rogers?

 

[krutovsdonut]

The Benning supporters love to avoid discussing the actual issues, like those you have mentioned, in favour of labelling critics as negative, not real fans, etc. and trying to put a ridiculous spin on things that focuses on the individual, rather than the argument that they are advancing. But when you look at the facts like your post contains, how the hell are fans supposed to be positive or have confidence in this management? And just because the facts and circumstances suck doesn't mean the people who point them out are negative. It's like, you wouldn't expect people to talk positively about 9/11 or COVID-19 because they are inherently terrible situations. Same goes for Canucks management. There have been so many red flags along the way that we're left standing in the middle of a mine field now.

lol at the analogy. canucks management is just like 9/11 and covid19.

jenniferlawrenceok.gif

 

[krutovsdonut]

There’s no way Benning keeps his job if Canucks lose the Wild Series...right?? He shouldn’t keep it regardless but they’d have no choice?...

is this a joke? what are you guys smoking in here?

 

[krutovsdonut]

What happens if Minnesota beats them in the play-in?

we get a decent draft position i think.