Management Thread

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Unreal. It's hard to imagine our cap even more screwed than it already is. But that was a real possibility.

In fairness - I’m sure a lot of teams have “bullet dodged” moments. But yeah, that one would have been beyond fugly. Bad enough to issue a terrible contract, it would have been insult to injury if that terrible contract had been to Dave freaking Bolland. Truly would have been the darkest timeline.

 

[RobertKron]

Just to be clear, he’s talking more than 5year, 27.5m with a limited ntc.

 

[Fatass]

Just to be clear, he’s talking more than 5year, 27.5m with a limited ntc.

Who, Bolland contract?
So Benning goes and finds Erickson

 

[Horse McHindu]

Unreal. It's hard to imagine our cap even more screwed than it already is. But that was a real possibility.

If we had gotten Bolland, we wouldn’t have gotten Sutter. Bolland would have eventually been LTIR’d and would have been likely moved to a cap floor team. Hence - our cap likely wouldn’t have been “more screwed” than it is now.

 

[Ryp37]

If we had gotten Bolland, we wouldn’t have gotten Sutter. Bolland would have eventually been LTIR’d and would have been likely moved to a cap floor team. Hence - our cap likely wouldn’t have been “more screwed” than it is now.

People say things like this as if Jim wouldn't have found another expensive plug to fill that space

That Bolland offer is least surprising thing possible. Would love to see a laundry list of horrible moves Jim wanted to make but didn't go through.

 

[Foundational Player]

Jim Benning......he just couldn't resist another helping of meat and potatoes.

Fortunately for Benning, Dave Bolland wanted no part of being a foundational player.

Not surprising, Benning is an underwhelming GM who's a really nice guy.

Go Canucks!!

 

[Jyrki21]

The Canucks were doing their annual post ASG swoon and were trending to miss the playoffs yet again. Markstrom had gone down and the team was predictably falling down through the standings without him. Weren't they hanging on by single point in the wild card spot when the season was halted? I mean, this is supposed to be some kind of triumph? It never ceases to amaze me how subterraneanly low the bar is for Benning.

*edit* Yeah, just looked. Of all teams above the playoff bar, only Dallas had a worse record in the last 10 games.

And again, making the playoffs by a couple points vs. missing the playoffs by a couple points makes absolutely no difference in judging what the team is: it is on the bubble either way, after half a decade of refusing to rebuild and spending to the cap.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

I had completely blocked out the Bolland rumors from my memory. I guess the Miller/ Dorsett/ Vey/ Kesler deals kind of overshadowed failed Bolland deal.

Smoke to fire ratio during Benning's tenure remains 1:1.

 

[MS]

Tried to sign Dave Bolland to a franchise crippling deal.
Tried to trade the Boeser pick plus other assets (Markstrom rumoured) for Milan Lucic and sign him to a franchise crippling deal.
Tried again to sign Lucic to a franchise crippling deal.
Tried to trade Horvat + Tanev +#5 overall for PK Subban.
Pushed for the team to draft Cody Glass instead of Elias Pettersson but was overruled by Linden.

As terrible a GM as Benning has been, he's actually been incredibly *lucky* that things weren't a lot worse and that his preferred plans didn't come to fruition.

 

[Pip]

Not surprised at all by that Bolland offer

 

[I am toxic]

Tried to sign Dave Bolland to a franchise crippling deal.
Tried to trade the Boeser pick plus other assets (Markstrom rumoured) for Milan Lucic and sign him to a franchise crippling deal.
Tried again to sign Lucic to a franchise crippling deal.
Tried to trade Horvat + Tanev +#5 overall for PK Subban.
Pushed for the team to draft Cody Glass instead of Elias Pettersson but was overruled by Linden.

As terrible a GM as Benning has been, he's actually been incredibly *lucky* that things weren't a lot worse and that his preferred plans didn't come to fruition.

The only reason Benning hasn't shot himself in the foot more often is because he put the holster on upside down.

Unfortunately, birds have to be extra cautious when flying by.

 

[Hit the post]

Tried again to sign Lucic to a franchise crippling deal.

That was only half the equation. He was willing to have this guy in the same locker room as his BFF Ryan Miller. Yeah, deal McCann because he was acting like a 20 year old (he WAS 20 at the time) because that's a "distraction". But have Lucic in the same space as your starting goalie. Yeah, I could see how well that would turn out.

 

[MS]

That was only half the equation. He was willing to have this guy in the same locker room as his BFF Ryan Miller. Yeah, deal McCann because he was acting like a 20 year old (he WAS 20 at the time) because that's a "distraction". But have Lucic in the same space as your starting goalie. Yeah, I could see how well that would turn out.

It's absolutely crazy how tone deaf these idiots are both to the market and to the dressing room.

Bolland: Sedin 'sisters' sleep in bunk beds - Sportsnet.ca

Yeah, let's go sign this guy! Can't imagine there would be any issues there!

 

[Josepho]

lmao that's probably worse than chiarelli trading for manning

 

[ProstheticConscience]

1) Streaks and slumps are common place in an 82 game season. To assume that the Canucks would have lost all/most of the remainder of their games because it fits your narrative, is a large stretch at best.

2) We had just gotten Boeser back.

3) Although it’s a small sample size, the Canucks did manage to win two of their last three games....two teams of which were very good and very respectable opponents (Colorado and NYI). It’s quite possible that we were going to start trending upwards again (weren’t we like 4-5-1 in our last ten?)

4) Demko didn’t handle the starting position well at all when he first started, but was really starting to come around and was starting to look like a legit starter. One might even say that Demko was a Benning pick when Markstrom got injured, but started to turn into a Brackett pick as time went on. :roll:

1) FFS what narrative? I just pointed out their record and how closely it fits an established pattern. I didn't say they would have lost all or most of their remaining games. Stop putting words in my mouth.

2) Big deal. It's not as if lack of top line scoring was the Canucks' big problem.

3) It's also possible they wouldn't have. There's also every other team to consider. And yes, once again, Dallas was the only other team in playoff position that was trending worse. The consequences of playing sub .500 hockey down the stretch should be familiar by now.

4) Demko was getting better, sure. But other teams have good goalies too. And we all know who drafted him.

And as has been said many times, even if the Canucks had managed to turn it around and squeaked into the playoffs, is that supposed to be some great vindication? After trading a first round pick and bloating the roster to the cap ceiling while Pettersson and Hughes are both on ELCs? Like...really? Pretty sad.

 

[timw33]

Jim Benning is even bad at being a bad GM. He can't even close on these awful, awful deals.

 

[timw33]

 

[xtra]

If we had gotten Bolland, we wouldn’t have gotten Sutter. Bolland would have eventually been LTIR’d and would have been likely moved to a cap floor team. Hence - our cap likely wouldn’t have been “more screwed” than it is now.

why do you say we wouldn’t have gotten sutter? Do you have inside info that overpaying for the third line center was our backup plan? Or are you just making assumptions to fit your narrative that benning isn’t an idiot?

maybe he trades away Tanev like he’s wanted to to add more depth up front

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

why do you say we wouldn’t have gotten sutter? Do you have inside info that overpaying for the third line center was our backup plan? Or are you just making assumptions to fit your narrative that benning isn’t an idiot?

maybe he trades away Tanev like he’s wanted to to add more depth up front

Yeah that's not a great excuse. Benning still targeted Beagle even though we already had Sutter and Gaudette was NHL ready because Benning loves overpaying for veteran UFAs.

 

[MS]

why do you say we wouldn’t have gotten sutter? Do you have inside info that overpaying for the third line center was our backup plan? Or are you just making assumptions to fit your narrative that benning isn’t an idiot?

maybe he trades away Tanev like he’s wanted to to add more depth up front

Absolutely.

That said, there is a point, in a capped league, where some of the stupid moves Jim Benning was trying to make, if they happened, would have prevented some of the future stupid moves he actually did end up making. It's actually comical.

 

[Jyrki21]

Absolutely.

That said, there is a point, in a capped league, where some of the stupid moves Jim Benning was trying to make, if they happened, would have prevented some of the future stupid moves he actually did end up making. It's actually comical.

But of course, when certain users take this logic to the next step and use this as a credit in Benning's favor, this is where we get the praise for having screwed up in the 2016 draft, thereby allowing the Canucks to pick higher in 2017 and get Pettersson.

 

[Hit the post]

why do you say we wouldn’t have gotten sutter?

As been discussed a zillion times, I can give him a pass for thinking Sutter was better than he was (though giving him a grandfathered NTC clause and contract extension before him playing a single NHL game for us was tough to swallow).

My issue was that Rutherford *HAD* to unload Sutter to give him any cap flexibility (unlike us, they likely wanted to make moves to strengthen their cup chances). Jethro Bodine had *ALL* the leverage. There was no immediate need for a "Sutter". Bonino wasn't perfect and had flaws but was a good enough 'stopgap' solution. Yet Bodine bent over and threw in an upgraded draft pick for good measure.

Benning would be an AWFUL poker player.

 

[xtra]

Absolutely.

That said, there is a point, in a capped league, where some of the stupid moves Jim Benning was trying to make, if they happened, would have prevented some of the future stupid moves he actually did end up making. It's actually comical.

agreed; I don’t see how a poster can say we’ll yea that move would be stupid but on the bright side it would have prevented Stupid move X from happening

As been discussed a zillion times, I can give him a pass for thinking Sutter was better than he was (though giving him a grandfathered NTC clause and contract extension before him playing a single NHL game for us was tough to swallow).

My issue was that Rutherford *HAD* to unload Sutter to give him any cap flexibility (unlike us, they likely wanted to make moves to strengthen their cup chances). Jethro Bodine had *ALL* the leverage. There was no immediate need for a "Sutter". Bonino wasn't perfect and had flaws but was a good enough 'stopgap' solution. Yet Bodine bent over and threw in an upgraded draft pick for good measure.

Benning would be an AWFUL poker player.

my post wasn’t about sutter the player or the trade as you said it’s been discussed a zillion times it’s how a poster will attack as he put it “canuck fans” for having a narrative about benning when he himself has a narrative that he’s promoting with out acknowledging that he has a narrative. He holds himself up as holier than thou throwing stones while having his own narrative

 

[MS]

But of course, when certain users take this logic to the next step and use this as a credit in Benning's favor, this is where we get the praise for having screwed up in the 2016 draft, thereby allowing the Canucks to pick higher in 2017 and get Pettersson.

This remains the stupidest argument I have ever heard on any topic, ever.

As been discussed a zillion times, I can give him a pass for thinking Sutter was better than he was (though giving him a grandfathered NTC clause and contract extension before him playing a single NHL game was tough to swallow).

My issue was that Rutherford *HAD* to unload Sutter to give him any cap flexibility (unlike us, they likely wanted to make moves to strengthen their cup chances). Jethro Bodine had *ALL* the leverage. There was no immediate need for a "Sutter". Bonino wasn't perfect and had flaws but was a good enough 'stopgap' solution. Yet Bodine bent over and threw in an upgraded draft pick for good measure.

Benning would be an AWFUL poker player.

It's worse than that. The chain of logic here is so bad it's actually difficult to comprehend.

The move was made because :

1) They wanted to develop Bo Horvat as a defensive center (WRONG) and felt the best way to do this would be to bring in a better offensive center to 'take the pressure off having to score' and bury him in tough defensive minutes (IDIOTIC).

2) They felt that Nick Bonino was too slow to be effective in the playoffs (HILARIOUSLY WRONG).

Then, they identified Brandon Sutter, a guy who once went through an entire season with 1 primary assist, as that offensive upgrade on Bonino (WRONG) and decided that swapping Sutter for Bonino would be worth the massive difference in cap hit (WRONG).

Then, despite the fact that they were trading a better player on a better contract for a worse player on a worse contract to a team in cap hell with no leverage, somehow put themselves in the position where they added assets and draft picks to the transaction (WRONG).

Then, before ever watching the player play and seeing how he fit into their roster, they gave him a massive extension which was the biggest contract ever for a guy who had never hit 40 points, with a retroactive NTC (WRONG).

__________

Basically, they took themselves from a position where they had an ideal situation with Horvat-Bonino as their #2-3 centers with Bonino taking a defensive load to free up a young player to play some softer minutes, downgraded on Bonino at both ends of the rink, nearly tripled their cap hit, chained themselves to an albatross contract, and buried Horvat in defensive minutes which nearly wrecked him the following season. And then watched Bonino nearly win a Conn Smythe while Sutter has never played a playoff game as a Canuck. You couldn't f*** something up so thoroughly in so many different ways if you were trying. They literally got every single thing about this trade wrong.

 

[Didalee Hed]

This remains the stupidest argument I have ever heard on any topic, ever.



It's worse than that. The chain of logic here is so bad it's actually difficult to comprehend.

The move was made because :

1) They wanted to develop Bo Horvat as a defensive center (WRONG) and felt the best way to do this would be to bring in a better offensive center to 'take the pressure off having to score' and bury him in tough defensive minutes (IDIOTIC).

2) They felt that Nick Bonino was too slow to be effective in the playoffs (HILARIOUSLY WRONG).

Then, they identified Brandon Sutter, a guy who once went through an entire season with 1 primary assist, as that offensive upgrade on Bonino (WRONG) and decided that swapping Sutter for Bonino would be worth the massive difference in cap hit (WRONG).

Then, despite the fact that they were trading a better player on a better contract for a worse player on a worse contract to a team in cap hell with no leverage, somehow put themselves in the position where they added assets and draft picks to the transaction (WRONG).

Then, before ever watching the player play and seeing how he fit into their roster, they gave him a massive extension which was the biggest contract ever for a guy who had never hit 40 points, with a retroactive NTC (WRONG).

__________

Basically, they took themselves from a position where they had an ideal situation with Horvat-Bonino as their #2-3 centers with Bonino taking a defensive load to free up a young player to play some softer minutes, downgraded on Bonino at both ends of the rink, nearly tripled their cap hit, chained themselves to an albatross contract, and buried Horvat in defensive minutes which nearly wrecked him the following season. And then watched Bonino nearly win a Conn Smythe while Sutter has never played a playoff game as a Canuck. You couldn't f*** something up so thoroughly in so many different ways if you were trying. They literally got every single thing about this trade wrong.

And yet here we are where somehow there are people here who think Benning is the best thing since sliced bread.

Sliced bread deserves a shot if you ask me.