Management Thread | Inconceivable Edition

[deckercky]

Yeah, I think a better use of resources is to look back at how scouts rated players several years back, not just to determine 'good scout' or 'bad scout', but to identify blind spots and improve scouting going forward.

 

[Nazzlind]

Gillis interviewed for the Sens job a few years ago (Friedman reported it). I think him and Melnyk didn't get along.

Gillis' desired budget for running hockey ops is probably too expensive for Melnyk anyways lol

 

[StreetHawk]

Ugh.

Fine, he didn't "leak" the document, he "accidentally posted it on Twitter."

Whatever verbiage you want to use, it still reflects badly.

Like, why the f*** does his son have access to it in the first place?

how old is his son? gillis is 62. unless his son is a teenager, that's a bad look. kind of reeks of desperation or him trying to show people that he's trying to land a front office job

 

[PM]

how old is his son? gillis is 62. unless his son is a teenager, that's a bad look. kind of reeks of desperation or him trying to show people that he's trying to land a front office job

Jake Virtanen does stupid shit and he’s in his twenties. Lots of 20-somethings are complete morons. If his son is 30 then maybe, maybe you are on to something. But I’m pretty sure he’s not.

 

[Melvin]

Yeah, I think a better use of resources is to look back at how scouts rated players several years back, not just to determine 'good scout' or 'bad scout', but to identify blind spots and improve scouting going forward.

agree.

I don’t think avoiding “groupthink” is more important than establishing an evaluative model for measuring what is working and what isn’t, and helping you you continuously improve. I think doing this in two distinct teams just adds noise, frankly.

especially because a lot of the groupthink just comes from the industry itself, and to some extent it is unavoidable.

 

[Melvin]

Gillis' desired budget for running hockey ops is probably too expensive for Melnyk anyways lol

that is one expensive org chart he has put together. Aside from himself, also a GM and like five AGMs? Geez

 

[rypper]

He used word for word, same emojis, the excuse that Virtanen did when he "accidently" wrote "Zzz" as a reply to a tweet from Mirco Mueller talking about an injury.

It's not serious.

 

[StreetHawk]

Jake Virtanen does stupid shit and he’s in his twenties. Lots of 20-somethings are complete morons. If his son is 30 then maybe, maybe you are on to something. But I’m pretty sure he’s not.

Logically to me, unless his son is a teenager living with him, there is no reason for his son to have access to the document unless he was proofreading it for his father. In which case, I would expect that if Gillis is relying on his son to do that, that there should be a higher level of care that his son would show for that document and not share it on twitter.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Gillis interviewed for the Sens job a few years ago (Friedman reported it). I think him and Melnyk didn't get along.

He also interviewed with Jersey.

Mike Gillis interviews for New Jersey Devils' general manager job

 

[mriswith]

Now I'm curious to see if Melvin will also be called a disingenuous, obtuse troll or not lol

Denying it's an opsec breach is dumb. You can disagree on how much impact it would have but denying what it actually is, is all of the above. In 2021, companies are watching your personal life and assume it will correlate to your professional life. Actually they've always done this, just now it's switched to your online life.

Second, Melvin always argues in good faith. The other guy, almost never.

 

[Melvin]

Logically to me, unless his son is a teenager living with him, there is no reason for his son to have access to the document unless he was proofreading it for his father. In which case, I would expect that if Gillis is relying on his son to do that, that there should be a higher level of care that his son would show for that document and not share it on twitter.

his son probably helped him put it together and was being a dork. It was dumb and I’m sure Gillis is displeased, but it’s really just not that big of a deal. A little embarrassing for Gillis for his self sales pitch to be visible to us, but no real harm done and no actual confidential information shared.

 

[mathonwy]

Not embarrassing at all.

Mike Gillis's son just sent his resume to the entire world.

Mike Gillis's resume is what a GM's resume should look like.

Shit in his resume makes logical sense and could potentially appeal to the logical minded owner who might be contemplating a GM change but hasn't started looking.

It's also very educational which appeals to the owner who wants to know more.

It's a pretty unique stealth marketing ploy.

I don't mind it all.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

No more Gillis, one of the worst drafting gm’s in league history.

But a tremendous goalie coach!

Developed Luongo and Schneider!

 

[I am toxic]

Ugh.

Fine, he didn't "leak" the document, he "accidentally posted it on Twitter."

Whatever verbiage you want to use, it still reflects badly.

Like, why the f*** does his son have access to it in the first place?

If you can't deny reality by arguing semantics, what do you have left?

 

[I am toxic]

I’ve thought about it and I think his “two scouting departments” idea is a bad one.

It would be a nightmare to manage, impossible to prevent cross contamination, and any benefits you get from “avoiding groupthink” is wiped out by the adversarial and potentially somewhat toxic environment it could foster. Too, in situations of conflict, would probably cause you to bias one team over the other based on early results and small sample size.

I’m willing to be sold on it as a fake owner of a team, but after thinking about it this evening, I don’t think it would work. I think a unified department where performance is strictly evaluated and acted upon is likely to work out better in the long run.

This is a discussion worth having.

Debating the semantocs of the unprofessionalism and responsibility for the leak is certainly not.

Guess which one certain posters spam us with? I love it because . . . well, you know . . . username . . .

I think the second scouting department would add an incremental benefit, however I also think the amount of resources involved for that second department could be invested in other aspects of scouting with bigger bang for the buck. I haven't read any of the document, maybe that is what it is getting at.

 

[Hansen]

Why even have a scouting team when you can just read HF Boards

Discussions:
489,304
Messages:
51,246,611
Members:
120,337

incredible powerful

 

[supercanuck]

I’ve thought about it and I think his “two scouting departments” idea is a bad one.

It would be a nightmare to manage, impossible to prevent cross contamination, and any benefits you get from “avoiding groupthink” is wiped out by the adversarial and potentially somewhat toxic environment it could foster. Too, in situations of conflict, would probably cause you to bias one team over the other based on early results and small sample size.

I’m willing to be sold on it as a fake owner of a team, but after thinking about it this evening, I don’t think it would work. I think a unified department where performance is strictly evaluated and acted upon is likely to work out better in the long run.

I guess he must think that groupthink was a major issue with the scouting during his time in Vancouver (thus the poor drafting)? Seems going a bit too far to solve the issue to me too though.

 

[vancityluongo]

Ha, so a few things that stood out to me:

1) The org. chart is absolutely the most interesting part of that document from a discussion perspective. Nothing all that new relative to things Gillis has said in media, but to see it tangibly on paper is worthy of a lot of discussion.

2) There's a reference to "for the last five years" in the opening letter - I wonder if this was actually the package sent out to a different team, since Gillis was fired from the Canucks almost 7 years ago now. The most recent interviews (as per the links at the end) are from 2019.

3) This was absolutely intentional by Spencer lol - I'd bet that Gillis didn't get an interview with the Penguins, and this is just a shot at them.

4) The segregation of responsibilities that he refers to (in the past tense) is the exact sort of stuff that has been the topic of this management thread for years. It also yet again confirms who his key guys were; for example, what @MS has been saying for years around the scouting being overhauled under Crawford. Similarly, the coordination between him and Gilman on negotiations again proves that they always had a coherent strategy. It's one thing to question his execution (and he does wrt scouting, etc.) but all we as fans can ask from a GM is that they have a high level vision and the ability to manage. I've always felt Gillis very much demonstrates that, and this presentation is a good executive summary of that.

5) This is the best f***ing part of the doc because it is the direct dunk on Aquilini that I've been shouting for years now:

 

[Peter10]

He even took a shot at Gudbranson "defense
men need to play 300 games before you know if they are good"

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Unfortunately, it appears Gillis probably won't get an offer for another job to run a franchise. He skipped a step. Apparently even the ex-executives with minimal relevant education or track records of success know, that in order to get another gig to run Billion dollar franchises, they have to go work for Hockey Canada for a year or two and simultaneously hang out with Kevin Lowe and his Stanley Cup rings...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

if i was interviewing him for a job, i'd be really eager to see his full reasoning for the two separate scouting groups and how that would play out, both in terms of how this would practically work and projected gains from effectively having half your scouting staff not being allowed to talk to the other half.

i can't see it, but i'm guessing he has really interesting answers.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

5) This is the best f***ing part of the doc because it is the direct dunk on Aquilini that I've been shouting for years now:

all the dunks are great. the aqua dunks, the benning dunks, the brian burke dunks, the colin campbell dunks...

but i think if he's going to get to sit in somebody's chair, he has to find a mark cuban. i don't know if the NHL has a mark cuban.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

that is one expensive org chart he has put together. Aside from himself, also a GM and like five AGMs? Geez

Much smaller scouting staff though. Most teams have a lot more than 10-12 scouts. Canucks, eg, have 21. Habs have 17.

 

[vancityluongo]

all the dunks are great. the aqua dunks, the benning dunks, the brian burke dunks, the colin campbell dunks...

but i think if he's going to get to sit in somebody's chair, he has to find a mark cuban. i don't know if the NHL has a mark cuban.

Jeff Vinnik? Tom Dundon maybe?

If Waddell ever leaves Carolina, that's probably the ideal spot for Gillis, with Eric Walsky as a perfect fit as his GM.

 

[bandwagonesque]

If you can't deny reality by arguing semantics, what do you have left?

No part of what I said was semantics and many other posters, including one who has worked in sports, reached an identical conclusion.