Management Thread | Edge of Tomorrow

[Bleach Clean]

the attempts by people in here to justify their hatred of current management with a dated catalog of grievances is irrational. nobody expects perfection in a rebuilding gm. nobody making these critiques can define the mendoza line they are claiming benning fell below with his mistakes. it's just subjective and if we are being honest, it's conclusionary reasoning where the poster starts with an opinion and then looks for facts to justify it.

That portion is wrong and has been proven so many times over in these management threads. There is precedent in the NHL even for rebuilding clubs. Nothing is a snowflake. The objective markers are there with at least 20 years of precedent.

How do you think people determined that Benning should have been fired already? It was because they looked at past timelines of GMs that were unable to make the playoffs over a 4 year span.

Not sure about calling other posters out, but have a like for the Talking Heads reference.

A lot of gotcha posts surfacing recently... hmmm.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Playing below replacement level and being by far the biggest negative differential in comparison to our opponents doesn't qualify as essential to me but we all have different standards of essential I guess.

sure, let's ignore deployment. and the fact we are here.

clearly we are here despite the fact our bottom 6 has been awful. the stats do not lie!

 

[I am toxic]

I wish we had had a rebuilding GM sometime in the past half dozen years.

Instead of the Benning/Linden "compete on the fly (but fail so badly get a lottery pick instead)" and later the Benning "compete on the fly (but fail so badly get a lottery pick instead)".

If we had a rebuild, we wouldn't have the likes of Spooner, Baertschi, Ferland, Louie, Beagle, Sutter, Roussel, dragging the team down so badly like they have.

Particularly given this one September will be our only window in a decade, with Petey and Hughes on ELC's, and our two goalies playing out of their minds.

Enjoy this fortuitous, once in a lifetime confluence of bizarre events while it lasts.

 

[krutovsdonut]

That portion is wrong and has been proven so many times over in these management threads. There is precedent in the NHL even for rebuilding clubs. Nothing is a snowflake. The objective markers are there with at least 20 years of precedent.

How do you think people determined that Benning should have been fired already? It was because they looked at past timelines of GMs that were unable to make the playoffs over a 4 year span.

the fact gms get fired after 4 years is not evidence of incompetence by those gms. it's evidence of how long a typical nhl owner gives you to get good in the context of authorizing a full rebuild, which is a measure of the arbitrary judgment of wealthy businessmen who usually lack any hockey background. that does not correlate to how long it should actually take, and benning didn't get authorized to conduct a full rebuild anyway.

there is no objective measure. there are umpteen teams that spend years and multiple gms sucking or treading water. this is a more accurate measure of the inherent difficulty and uncertainty of the task.

 

[timw33]

Awesome...nothing like referring back to the 'compete on the fly' (Linden) era moves is there..?

That was all about salvaging an old core ..and probably a response after the physical drubbing they took at the hands of the Flames in 2015.

This Linden as a patsy thing is so tired, man.

No one thought Linden did a good job, but that also doesn't absolve the general manager of the team leading the pro scouting department on these moves.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

This Linden as a patsy thing is so tired, man.

No one thought Linden did a good job, but that also doesn't absolve the general manager of the team leading the pro scouting department on these moves.

Agreed with not absolving the GM...but the 'compete on the fly' was Lindens

 

[F A N]

People on the outside take comments that are jokes between friends/teammates way too literally sometimes. I don't think Sutter is a bad guy or teammate. Was the same when Miller made fun of Virtanen in pre-game.

Then again, naming the guy who isn't funny at all as the "funniest guy on the team" is also something teammates/friends would do so who knows.

Hmm... I think it's only if there is an inside joke there would you name the guy who isn't funny at all as the "funniest guy on the team." I'm not sure that is the case here.

But ya I agree. Teammates chirp each other all the time and Sutter is among the players who are more vocal. The Canucks leadership group, as far as I know, have involved the players' input for a long time now. Sutter wearing an A would not be someone management and the coaching staff forced onto the players.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Agreed with not absolving the GM...but the 'compete on the fly' was Lindens

to which benning surely said he agreed when he was hired.

 

[carrotshirt]

Playing below replacement level and being by far the biggest negative differential in comparison to our opponents doesn't qualify as essential to me but we all have different standards of essential I guess.

They're treating it like if we didn't have our overpaid bottom 6, we would have no bottom 6. I don't think we'd play a third of the game with no forwards on the ice, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[mriswith]

sure, let's ignore deployment. and the fact we are here.

clearly we are here despite the fact our bottom 6 has been awful. the stats do not lie!

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

to which benning surely said he agreed when he was hired.

Absolutely...He worked within those parameters...and we can agree there were bungled moves in there ..The mandate, was not Bennings (an inconvenient truth for some)..

Benning has arguably done some of his best moves as GM, with Linden out of the picture.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Absolutely...He worked within those parameters...and we can agree there were bungled moves in there ..The mandate, was not Bennings (an inconvenient truth for some)..

Benning has arguably done some of his best moves as GM, with Linden out of the picture.

i think the mutual efforts to demonize linden and lionize benning or vice versa to create a binary certain definitive storyline by which one made the bad or god decisions is misguided and futile without better access. same thing for the bracket/benning stuff.

i nevertheless respect you greatly for working hard and constructing well documented narratives that go in that direction to counter the narratives constructed by others. they offset each other and offer some soothing symmetry.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

i think the mutual efforts to demonize linden and lionize benning or vice versa to create a binary certain definitive storyline by which one made the bad or god decisions is misguided and futile without better access. same thing for the bracket/benning stuff.

i nevertheless respect you greatly for working hard and constructing well documented narratives that go in that direction to counter the narratives constructed by others. they offset each other and offer some soothing symmetry.

 

[I am toxic]

i think the mutual efforts to demonize linden and lionize benning or vice versa to create a binary certain definitive storyline by which one made the bad or god decisions is misguided and futile without better access. same thing for the bracket/benning stuff.

i nevertheless respect you greatly for working hard and constructing well documented narratives that go in that direction to counter the narratives constructed by others. they offset each other and offer some soothing symmetry.

It's why I appreciate the flat-earth society.

 

[Bleach Clean]

the fact gms get fired after 4 years is not evidence of incompetence by those gms. it's evidence of how long a typical nhl owner gives you to get good in the context of authorizing a full rebuild, which is a measure of the arbitrary judgment of wealthy businessmen who usually lack any hockey background. that does not correlate to how long it should actually take, and benning didn't get authorized to conduct a full rebuild anyway.

there is no objective measure. there are umpteen teams that spend years and multiple gms sucking or treading water. this is a more accurate measure of the inherent difficulty and uncertainty of the task.

The threshold of the typical owner is the benchmark. It's typical because it occurs the most often, and it most often occurs because all of the advice, guidance and knowledge owners receive culminates to creating said action.

There is quite clearly a correlation between bad GMs being fired when given X amount of time to rebuild. It's no different than finding a data cluster when analyzing the largest sample of GM hirings and firings.

Now, you could argue causation is not correlation. However, I don't even know where you would begin to support such an argument? The criteria and weighting you would have to amass would need to result in the general understanding of owners/media/fans being overturned. Curious how you would go about it?


Edit: I shouldn't have bothered. As you were Krutov.

 

[Green Blank Stare]

Benning can't watch this series and bring back the same coaching staff. They got destroyed in five of the seven games and outshot in every single one.

Vegas is a better team but shouldn't be that much better. Their coaching is clearly on another level too.

 

[rypper]

Benning can't watch this series and bring back the same coaching staff. They got destroyed in five of the seven games and outshot in every single one.

Vegas is a better team but shouldn't be that much better. Their coaching is clearly on another level too.

Who would have thought that playing most of the game like you're on a pk wouldn't work out?

 

[vanuck]

Hate to say it but that was a horrible showing in a pivotal game. Being dominated in possession all game, get a huge 5 minute major, plus Demko playing out of his mind... and come up empty. It was a fun, entertaining run but this really revealed our weaknesses as a team.

 

[Intangibos]

Demko making 2011 Thomas look like Dan Cloutier couldn't carry this disaster of a bottom-6.

Disgusting game to watch.

 

[Tonystretcher]

Now lets see Benning clean up his own mess and prevent regression next season. Hell of a task.

 

[Bubbles]

The smart move now is to keep Demko and let Marky walk. It's all about value and replacement in the cap world.

The $5-6 million can be saved to shore up the D, or get some young, skilled blood in the bottom 6.

But Benning will more than likely sign Marky and let Demko go in the Expansion draft.

 

[Canucks1096]

Now lets see Benning clean up his own mess and prevent regression next season. Hell of a task.

Correction

Let's see Benning clean up his own mess and Linden mess as well.

 

[member 328930]

Fire Benning.

this young core is great but they are here as a consequence of his failings. The additions he made with respect to trades and signing of vets has been horrendous.

the only good moves he has made is to employ Brackett, and trade for Miller.

 

[BB06]

Good assets management would be to use Demko as leverage against Markstrom and get him signed on good term. Then trade Demko to the highest bidder.

 

[Intangibos]

Benning can't watch this series and bring back the same coaching staff.

He can and he will