Management Thread | Edge of Tomorrow

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Last one was over 1,000. Continue.

Keep it civil, everyone.

"Gotcha" posts for the sole purpose of trolling each other will be dealt with as such. This goes both ways, win or lose. All of you are capable of handling this with grace, so please do so.

The use of blanket terms such as "Benning Bros", "Benning Haters", or "Benning Bots" is also heavily discouraged. Rarely is it used in a post that isn't meant to serve as baiting or trolling - so fair warning, if you use those terms, your posts are going to be scrutinized for it.

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[PG Canuck]

So, about that bottom six....

 

[David71]

So, about that bottom six....

Find a way to clear 20million of useless slow penalty foundational players... revamp the D core+the entire bottom 6. cant beleive chandler stephanson went for a 4th rounder.. and hes younger and better than wat vancouver has for suree

 

[SillyRabbit]

I'm gonna go ahead and re-post what I posted in the other thread since it only got to be seen for about 15 minutes before this thread was made:

I feel the need to continuously point out that we are getting about 20 million dollars worth of contributions from Pettersson and Hughes for a 1.9 million actual cap hit.

In a salary cap league, having 18 million dollars worth of extra contributions should be MORE than enough to win you a Stanley Cup. Imagine adding 18 million cap space to any team, they'd instantly become Cup favorites.

Take away those two players and where are we? How is this team so poorly constructed that we are up against the cap and have next to nothing to show for it?

Chandler Stephenson - Salary: 1.05 million. Cost to acquire: 5th round pick.
Nick Cousins - Salary: 1 million. Cost to acquire: 4th round pick.

These fourth liners alone are each outscoring our entire bottom six.

Bottom six players are a dime a dozen. You can find them anywhere and pay them pennies.

Yet Benning has overpaid for our entire bottom six in both salary and acquisition cost. We haven't even talked about 8.5 million sitting in the pressbox with Loui and Sven, or bad contracts that have been sheltered from criticism due to them overshadowed by even worse ones, such as Myers at 6 million for the next 4 years.

The salary cap of this team has been so severely mismanaged it's incredible. We should easily have this exact roster with 12 million extra cap space to work with at bare minimum. Imagine having 12 million extra to patch up the holes on this team? 5 million for a competent top 6 winger. 7 million for a top pairing d-man. We'd be serious contenders this season, while taking advantage of having Pettersson and Hughes on ELC's.

Keep in mind, this only touches on Benning's mismanagement of the cap and completely ignores all of the other errors he's made in drafting, trading, personnel decisions and the bleeding of assets. He didn't need to be a perfect GM or even a really good GM, he could've made all of the same mistakes he made, and still got away with them, if he just managed the cap somewhat competently. Not perfect cap management, just middle of the road, average cap management, and we would be one of the top contenders this season and at least for the next two years after.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Miller-Horvat-Boeser
Pearson-Pettersson-Toffoli

The top 6 is set for the next few years if we resign Toffoli, top 6 has outplayed Minnesota, St. Louis & Vegas’ top 6 in these playoffs.


The bottom 6 needs a lot of work. Needs to become bigger, stronger and faster. Needs to generate much more offensive pressure and zone time. The third line has to be tailored more towards scoring.

Sutter, Eriksson, Virtanen and Roussel need to go. Leivo could be resigned for cheap due to the long injury lay-off he had.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

$16.4M on Eriksson, Sutter, Beagle, and Roussel, all outplayed buy Vegas' bargain-basement 4th line.

What a waste. Taking 2 years, at least, off the competitive window for Pettersson and Hughes.

 

[bossram]

So, about that bottom six....

Good lord our bottom-six and 3rd pair were absolutely ventilated tonight.

This will be Benning's legacy: Sutter, Beagle, Eriksson, Roussel, Myers = 22.375 million.

Vegas bottom-six + Zach Whitecloud = 12 million (and that's with 2 more players lol).

Cousins, Carrier, and Stephenson were all over 70% xG today. Sutter? 11%. Roussel? 19%. Beagle? 33%. Loui Eriksson? Press box.

Can Benning give me an apology?

 

[Peen]

Good lord our bottom-six and 3rd pair were absolutely ventilated tonight.

This will be Benning's legacy: Sutter, Beagle, Eriksson, Roussel, Myers = 22.375 million.

Vegas bottom-six + Zach Whitecloud = 12 million (and that's with 2 more players lol).

Cousins, Carrier, and Stephenson were all over 70% xG today. Sutter? 11%. Roussel? 19%. Beagle? 33%. Loui Eriksson? Press box.

Can Benning give me an apology?

Baertschi, Spooner buyout, Benn, Ferland. Ends up being about $33m for about $10m worth of players lol.

Need to get out of at $15m of that at a minimum this off season.

Myers, Eriksson, and ideally Beagle would be my recommendations.

Sutter, Baertschi, Benn, Spooner buyout will all expire the year after and they can somewhat reset.

 

[Peen]

Also in response to POM - The Management Thread - Dormammu, I've come to bargain.

you sent me a drance audio clip but I feel you sending it was based on the title rather than the content. did you listen to that and the column drance wrote about how bad our cap situation is for next season?

The amount of work we would need to do to maneuver bringing back a slightly worse roster that's one year older is insane.

If you don't have an Athletic subscription, I can summarize Drance's work if you'd like.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Where are the benning for gm of the year posters?

Who was it, put your hands up so we can see who.


The team is not very good, some very talented young players yes, achieved by being very bad, while trying to make the playoffs yes.
Much baggage and the road ahead is full of airports.

 

[Fatass]

So, about that bottom six....

And how many D do we really have? I think we need to (next season) get more young players experience.

 

[I am toxic]

Good lord our bottom-six were absolutely ventilated tonight.

This will be Benning's legacy: Sutter, Beagle, Eriksson, Roussel, Myers = 22.375 million.

Vegas bottom-six + Zach Whitecloud = 12 million (and that's with 2 more players lol).

Cousins, Carrier, and Stephenson were all over 70% xG today. Sutter? 11%. Roussel? 19%. Beagle? 33%. Loui Eriksson? Press box.

Can Benning give me an apology?

Yeah, Vegas is a better team not only because Gallant developed an excellent system that deBoer followed, but they have a good GM who manages the cap and gets value.

Unlike Vancouver, where the past and present moves of our GM to create our bottom 6 were so predictably bad, we didnt need to wait until these playoffs to see how bad, any armchair GM could - and in fact many did - point it out at the time.

Out-GM'd, out-coached. Entirely reliant on exceptional goaltending to even get this far. Not a recipe for success now or going forward.

Vegas fans, otoh, must be delighted with their management.

 

[VanJack]

The only thing that still rankles about some of the Canucks awful contracts for depth players, is that everybody around the hockey map knew they were bad signings the day they were announced. The contract number and term for guys like Sutter, Beagle, Roussel, Ferland and Eriksson was awful from day one.

In fact I remember clearly that last July 1st, Tyler Myers was number two on the TSN's "do not sign list', because he'd want too much money and too long a term. And with five more years on a contract for a guy who simply can't play a top-four role on a good team, it'll be as ugly as Eriksson's contract by time it's into years 5-6.

Of course it'll probably be another GM who has to try and unravel this unholy mess on the third and fourth lines. At least that's what should happen.

 

[Fatass]

The only thing that still rankles about some of the Canucks awful contracts for depth players, is that everybody around the hockey map knew they were bad signings the day they were announced. The contract number and term for guys like Sutter, Beagle, Roussel, Ferland and Eriksson was awful from day one.

In fact I remember clearly that last July 1st, Tyler Myers was number two on the TSN's "do not sign list', because he'd want too much money and too long a term. And with five more years on a contract for a guy who simply can't play a top-four role on a good team, it'll be as ugly as Eriksson's contract by time it's into years 5-6.

Of course it'll probably be another GM who has to try and unravel this unholy mess on the third and fourth lines. At least that's what should happen.

Wisebrod?

 

[Jyrki21]

$16.4M on Eriksson, Sutter, Beagle, and Roussel, all outplayed buy Vegas' bargain-basement 4th line.

What a waste. Taking 2 years, at least, off the competitive window for Pettersson and Hughes.

Benning's response to the window moving forward:

 

[tantalum]

While I agree it’s nice to see Pettersson, Hughes, Horvat and Markstrom step up in playoff hockey, in the end the process has really just confirmed my concerns with the club and management.

I won’t autopsy things until the expected happens...so I’ll wait.

 

[I am toxic]

While I agree it’s nice to see Pettersson, Hughes, Horvat and Markstrom step up in playoff hockey, in the end the process has really just confirmed my concerns with the club and management.

I won’t autopsy things until the expected happens...so I’ll wait.

. . . and see? Et tu, tantalum?

 

[tantalum]

. . . and see? Et tu, tantalum?

of course I’ll wait and see what happens. I don’t expect them to climb the mountain before them but if they did it could very well change my current opinion.

 

[bossram]

Baertschi, Spooner buyout, Benn, Ferland. Ends up being about $33m for about $10m worth of players lol.

Need to get out of at $15m of that at a minimum this off season.

Myers, Eriksson, and ideally Beagle would be my recommendations.

Sutter, Baertschi, Benn, Spooner buyout will all expire the year after and they can somewhat reset.

Jesus I didn't even think of Baertschi and the Spooner buyout. Benn is waste, but at least his deal expires after next year. Ferland (while I definitely wasn't a fan of signing him) I was going to be more lenient on given the injuries.

There's just no was Benning can fix the cap hell he's introduced.

 

[bossram]

The only thing that still rankles about some of the Canucks awful contracts for depth players, is that everybody around the hockey map knew they were bad signings the day they were announced. The contract number and term for guys like Sutter, Beagle, Roussel, Ferland and Eriksson was awful from day one.

In fact I remember clearly that last July 1st, Tyler Myers was number two on the TSN's "do not sign list', because he'd want too much money and too long a term. And with five more years on a contract for a guy who simply can't play a top-four role on a good team, it'll be as ugly as Eriksson's contract by time it's into years 5-6.

Of course it'll probably be another GM who has to try and unravel this unholy mess on the third and fourth lines. At least that's what should happen.

I've said it a few time and I genuinely think it's true: Some of the posters here would be a better GM than Benning. And that's simply because they wouldn't make predictable, colossal mistakes.

 

[F A N]

While I agree it’s nice to see Pettersson, Hughes, Horvat and Markstrom step up in playoff hockey, in the end the process has really just confirmed my concerns with the club and management.

Why would seeing playoff hockey confirm your concerns with management? That's such a weird comment. But I guess you're just predisposed to thinking one way and really nothing would change your view? You will be one of the posters where the Canucks could win the Cup and you'll be like "It's nice to win the Cup but it doesn't change my view on management because of process..."

The Canucks are going up against a legitimate Stanley Cup contender and playing under unusual circumstances. It's been tough series. If anything, seeing the Canucks play in in the playoffs allows management to better assess the team. It's why making the playoffs is so important. It's going to be the adjustments/moves made going forward that will determine the fate of the Canucks in the upcoming years.

 

[canucksfan]

It's going to be really interesting to see how management manages the cap this off season. I could easily see a team offering Markstrom a big contract, 6-7 million dollars as a cap hit.

There are so many potential variables which will make it exciting and possibly frustrating.

 

[Flik]

I know it would be an "unprecedented" move, but if ownership actually gave a shit about the Canucks maximizing our core's chances at a cup, we'd get rid of Benning etc and try to bring in someone that can start trying to clean up our mess this off season.

It irks me that we're gonna be wasting at least a few years of possible contending status, since we have some pretty special players emerging right now.

 

[tantalum]

Why would seeing playoff hockey confirm your concerns with management? That's such a weird comment. But I guess you're just predisposed to thinking one way and really nothing would change your view? You will be one of the posters where the Canucks could win the Cup and you'll be like "It's nice to win the Cup but it doesn't change my view on management because of process..."

The Canucks are going up against a legitimate Stanley Cup contender and playing under unusual circumstances. It's been tough series. If anything, seeing the Canucks play in in the playoffs allows management to better assess the team. It's why making the playoffs is so important. It's going to be the adjustments/moves made going forward that will determine the fate of the Canucks in the upcoming years.

I guess you'll just have to wait find out but it's really not anything shocking or unknown.

 

[m9]

Why would seeing playoff hockey confirm your concerns with management? That's such a weird comment. But I guess you're just predisposed to thinking one way and really nothing would change your view? You will be one of the posters where the Canucks could win the Cup and you'll be like "It's nice to win the Cup but it doesn't change my view on management because of process..."

The Canucks are going up against a legitimate Stanley Cup contender and playing under unusual circumstances. It's been tough series. If anything, seeing the Canucks play in in the playoffs allows management to better assess the team. It's why making the playoffs is so important. It's going to be the adjustments/moves made going forward that will determine the fate of the Canucks in the upcoming years.

Maybe it doesn't confirm things about management but it certainly confirms things about the roster that management has built.

I don't mean that in purely a bad way either - it's confirmed that guys like EP and Horvat are guys you can win with in the playoffs as your top two centers. It's confirmed that pending FAs like Markstrom, Tanev, and Toffoli are key pieces. It's confirmed that JT Miller - even likely battling something broken or bruised on his hand/wrist - is better than his previous playoff totals. It's confirmed Tyler Motte is a useful 4th liner who should be brought back.

But it's also confirmed that the bottom six still has some major issues. It's confirmed that guys like Beagle & Eriksson aren't useful players at their age because they can't skate. It's confirmed that there are still major question marks with Gaudette and Virtanen despite them having productive seasons. And it's confirmed that guys like Roussel and Sutter are fringe NHL players and can likely be replaced by minimum-salary players when the contract situation allows it.

I think it's confirmed that the way the roster has been built by management (heavy into bottom six $) isn't effective.

Important offseason coming up soon, we'll see what management can do to fix some things.