Management Thread | Edge of Tomorrow

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

We don't know what all the details on the inner workings of the team were. So personally what I put together is that Linden, as team President, gets to have ultimate authority over team and organizational decisions, however he wants to use that. But Benning, as the teams GM, is the guy that directly talks to (or delegates) other GM's and players agents.

That original group of Linden/Benning/Desjardins I liked to refer to as the 3 stooges. It was pretty obvious that Benning and Desjardin both had 'their guys' they liked to target, but you can't really say that of Linden who had no experience here and had pretty much no involvement with the game since he retired as a player.

So looking back on it Linden was less a stooge and more a useful idiot. He came in as the boss but as President his view to the league waswas expecting to learn the game from the veteran here, Jim Benning, and while not very adept at the job operated for years under the assumption that the GM was competent. With several years of failure he was at least smart enough to start seeing there was something wrong and started talking to other teams and exerting his authority more It wasn't long from that point that it became a conflict, ownership stepped in and fired Linden siding with Benning.

So while he obviously didn't do a good job whatever happens this is more on Benning and Aquilini than Linden.

Cool story.

 

[MS]

I don't follow Toronto that much. I'm not sure how that Managmenet works. But I do know Botchford said, Linden was involve in trade talks, signings and acted like a gm. Because of this Linden should get some of the blame as well as Benning. But all I heard people doing is when talking about Sutter Eriksson Rousell or Beagle contract. It's all on Benning and not Linden.

Even if Benning is suppose to be draft expertise. He doesn't have a full control of the decisions until Linden left.

All I want from people is to be a little fair and don't just blame Benning for those bad moves, you need to blame Linden as well.

Have a great night.

There is literally zero, zilch, nada evidence that Linden was personally involved in any personnel moves 2014-2016. And in fact, there are multiple instances on video of Benning running trade talks, and countless examples of him identifying himself as driving player personnel decisions. And virtually every player acquired had previous ties to Benning or Weisbrod. There is absolutely no way that Linden was in any way substantially involved in those moves in that time period and that we never heard a thing about it at the time, and even moreso that Aquilini/Benning wouldn't have thrown him under the bus later for bad decisions to take the heat off themselves if he was to blame.

From the trade deadline in 2017 through the 2017 offseason, yes, there is an argument that Linden was more involved during that stretch. He was much more front-and-center discussing personnel moves with the media, the word 'rebuild' was mentioned by Linden, the entire tone from the organization during that period was different, and both the deadline and offseason moves were completely different than anything else we've ever seen under Benning's regime. And those 2017 signings were fired out of a cannon by Benning as soon as Linden was marginalized - none of the 4 of them finished their short contracts with the club (interestingly, every other Benning UFA signing has played out his entire contract). Benning is the king of doubling down on bad moves and yet he wanted nothing to do with the moves made that summer.

And that would line up completely with Botchford's article about 'increased' Linden presence. But the notion that Linden was driving moves in 2015? Hogwash.

We’ve had 8 seasons out of 49 in our teams entire history that were more successful than this one. I still cannot fathom how people can possibly think management is bad.

The 2001-02 Islanders were the 10th-best team in that franchise's 48-year history. I can't fathom how people can possibly think Mike Milbury was a bad GM!

 

[kanuck87]

There was no guarantee that razor thin EP was even going to make squad in his first year (he even had a clause in his contract that he would go back to Sweden if he didnt)...The plan was to take the load off of Horvat and EP at C, and give the young players more veteran leadership...I do think think that these two have been a positive in these playoffs for the young guys in the room.

In retrospect., ..EP and Hughes were 'ahead of the curve', and the team was ready to compete faster than expected..Benning signed Beagle, Roussel to too much term , and money, and its going to bite them the ass (especially with the covid flat cap).

I dont mind the Myers signing...but the Eriksson, Roussel and Beagle contracts are more than hampering things.

This all just shows that Benning didn't have a plan in place. He was expecting the team to suck a few more seasons, hence why he signed Beagle and Roussel to these bad contracts. When he realized that EP/Hughes were ahead of the curve, he pivoted and took the first opportunity he could to make the playoffs in the short-term, but damaged the long-term outlook.

 

[Bleach Clean]

We don't know what all the details on the inner workings of the team were. So personally what I put together is that Linden, as team President, gets to have ultimate authority over team and organizational decisions, however he wants to use that. But Benning, as the teams GM, is the guy that directly talks to (or delegates) other GM's and players agents.

That original group of Linden/Benning/Desjardins I liked to refer to as the 3 stooges. It was pretty obvious that Benning and Desjardin both had 'their guys' they liked to target, but you can't really say that of Linden who had no experience here and had pretty much no involvement with the game since he retired as a player.

So looking back on it Linden was less a stooge and more a useful idiot. He came in as the boss but as President his view to the league waswas expecting to learn the game from the veteran here, Jim Benning, and while not very adept at the job operated for years under the assumption that the GM was competent. With several years of failure he was at least smart enough to start seeing there was something wrong and started talking to other teams and exerting his authority more It wasn't long from that point that it became a conflict, ownership stepped in and fired Linden siding with Benning.

So while he obviously didn't do a good job whatever happens this is more on Benning and Aquilini than Linden.

I see it this way as well. Linden relied on Benning's experience as GM because Linden was out of his depth. Benning ran the team with the proviso that Linden retained veto authority. Some semblance of control while he learned on the job. This aligns with him stepping in to overrule Benning for the 2017 draft, 3 years into the job.

When Linden felt he was educated enough to see how poor Benning actually was, he became more opposed. The example of this is the rumblings behind the scenes with the Beagle and Roussel signings. I believe it was Sekeres that made statements at that time that the two people in charge were not aligned with the offseason moves.

Essentially, the development of Linden caused the two sides to become opposed, which then had Benning+Weisbrod circumvent Linden's authority to secure their positions with Aquilini. Then Linden was fired.

 

[MS]

I see it this way as well. Linden relied on Benning's experience as GM because Linden was out of his depth. Benning ran the team with the proviso that Linden retained veto authority. Some semblance of control while he learned on the job. This aligns with him stepping in to overrule Benning for the 2017 draft.

When Linden felt he was educated enough to see how poor Benning actually was, he became more opposed. The example of this is the rumblings behind the scenes with the Beagle and Roussel signings. I believe it was Sekeres that made statements at that time that the two people in charge were not aligned with those signings.

Essentially, the development of Linden caused the two sides to be opposed, which then had Benning+Weisbrod circumvent Linden's authority to secure their positions with Aquilini. Then Linden is fired.

Yeah, we've got a pretty clear timeline on how things have developed here.

- 2014-2016 it seems pretty obvious that Benning and Linden were completely aligned on the plan and that Benning was driving personnel moves to execute that plan.

- midway through the 16-17 season when the team goes in the tank, Linden realizes the plan isn't working (meanwhile Benning is still doing a 'but injuries!' for the team's failings). Takes a more active role, starts talking about a rebuild. Moves at the deadline and during that summer are completely different from any other point under Benning. Overrules Benning on the Pettersson pick.

- the team gets off to a pretty good start in 17-18 and Benning/Weisbrod manage to orchestrate a coup at some point during that season to convince Aquilini that Linden is wrong about a rebuild and the team has to continue competing now.

- by the summer of 2018, Benning has authority to make Beagle/Roussel signings that Linden hates, and that's the point where everything obviously comes to a head for Linden and he leaves the team.

 

[xtra]

Thank god for linden being arms deep in the hockey ops that he got us pettersson right POM?

or was he not arms deep in that part of it?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The remaining few entrenched posters are now coming up with brand new narratives/timelines that are clearly at odds with what has been reported by Botchford and corroborated by Willis (undisputed facts).........Its to be expected really..

Its hilarious how the 'organizational shill' and 'Lyin Trev" have instantly became trusted sources when it conveniently fits into the desperate narratives that some are trying to push...The irony isnt lost on anybody.

 

[rypper]

The remaining few entrenched posters are now coming up with brand new narratives/timelines that are clearly at odds with what has been reported by Botchford and corroborated by Willis (undisputed facts).........Its to be expected really..

Its hilarious how the 'organizational shill' and 'Lyin Trev" have instantly became trusted sources when it conveniently fits into the desperate narratives that some are trying to push...The irony isnt lost on anybody.

What the ever loving hell are you going on about?

Linden has been criticised relentlessly for his share in running the team. The one positive thing he's ever been credited for is the Pettersson pick and MAYBE changing his tune on when/how to rebuild. That's never changed.

Linden and Benning did a terrible job running the team, regardless of what their individual involvements were.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

The remaining few entrenched posters are now coming up with brand new narratives/timelines that are clearly at odds with what has been reported by Botchford and corroborated by Willis (undisputed facts).........Its to be expected really..

Its hilarious how the 'organizational shill' and 'Lyin Trev" have instantly became trusted sources when it conveniently fits into the desperate narratives that some are trying to push...The irony isnt lost on anybody.

Yes Botchford said that Linden got increasingly involved. Also that there were times that people would say that this was Linden's team. It doesn't say when. To use Linden was running the phones his entire tenure is a narrative. Botchford's article in no way disproves what MS said.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

So much for the organization not having anything in the pipeline..

The Hockey writers have us at 8th...Updated 3 days ago
https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-farm-system-rankings/

and Corey Pronman from The Athletic has us in the top 12 somewhere...

And now for the rankings: 13. Los Angeles Kings 14. Chicago Blackhawks 15. Minnesota Wild 16. Winnipeg Jets 17. Dallas Stars 18. Detroit Red Wings 19. Columbus Blue Jackets 20. St. Louis Blues 21. Anaheim Ducks 22. Florida Panthers 23. Boston Bruins 24. Vegas Golden Knights 25. Tampa Bay Lightning 26. Edmonton Oilers 27. New York Islanders 28. San Jose Sharks 29. Nashville Predators 30. Pittsburgh Penguins 31. Washington Capitals

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I'm temporarily locking this thread to allow some heads to cool off.

EDIT: It is now open again. Please stick to the topic at hand and avoid personally attacking / baiting / trolling one another.

 

[GetFocht]

Jim Benning needs a 5 year extension

 

[m9]

So much for the organization not having anything in the pipeline..

The Hockey writers have us at 8th...Updated 3 days ago
https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-farm-system-rankings/

and Corey Pronman from The Athletic has us in the top 12 somewhere...

And now for the rankings: 13. Los Angeles Kings 14. Chicago Blackhawks 15. Minnesota Wild 16. Winnipeg Jets 17. Dallas Stars 18. Detroit Red Wings 19. Columbus Blue Jackets 20. St. Louis Blues 21. Anaheim Ducks 22. Florida Panthers 23. Boston Bruins 24. Vegas Golden Knights 25. Tampa Bay Lightning 26. Edmonton Oilers 27. New York Islanders 28. San Jose Sharks 29. Nashville Predators 30. Pittsburgh Penguins 31. Washington Capitals

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I think 10th-12th seems about right but as mentioned before its almost irrelevant right now with the draft coming up and the Canucks having no 1st/2nd. So almost every team will move up immediately other than them. They should be in the 18-20 range after the draft.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Jim Benning needs a 5 year extension

Great post to re-start things here. Kudos.

———

Anyway, Demko vs Markstrom is going to be an era defining decision for Benning here. You go from an aged but proven starter to a high level prospect starter. Going to be interesting.

 

[alicia]

What are your opinions of management if we do win the Cup this year? I've been on the fence but I think if we win the Cup, I can forgive the mistakes.

 

[GetFocht]

So the team is now being carried by Jim Benning's Demko, Hughes, Pettersson, and Miller.

 

[nowhereman]

What are your opinions of management if we do win the Cup this year? I've been on the fence but I think if we win the Cup, I can forgive the mistakes.

They would erect a statue of Jim Benning outside of Rogers Arena and it would be glorious, if only for all the collective minds blown from this board.

 

[Hyzer]

What are your opinions of management if we do win the Cup this year? I've been on the fence but I think if we win the Cup, I can forgive the mistakes.

I will forgive everything and can die happy. Until we dont keep winning cups then ofc i'll get angry again

 

[SillyRabbit]

So the team is now being carried by Jim Benning's Demko, Hughes, Pettersson, and Miller.

While also being dragged down by Jim Benning's Sutter, Beagle, Eriksson, Myers, etc.

The young, cheap players on ELC's are carrying the team while the players he overpaid and signed long term are weighing it down.

Had this money been spent even somewhat competently, the young, underpaid core would be complemented by much better depth and support on both the offensive and defensive end.

We are completely reliant on a 2nd year #1C, a rookie #1D and a goaltender with 34 career starts.

That's not by design. That's Benning striking gold by pure luck after building a team full of overpaid plugs on garbage contracts.

 

[Spectrefire]

That's not by design. That's Benning striking gold by pure luck after building a team full of overpaid plugs on garbage contracts.

I don't disagree one bit.

But sometimes that's how you win a cup in this league.

 

[GetFocht]

While also being dragged down by Jim Benning's Sutter, Beagle, Eriksson, Myers, etc.

The young, cheap players on ELC's are carrying the team while the players he overpaid and signed long term are weighing it down.

Had this money been spent even somewhat competently, the young, underpaid core would be complemented by much better depth and support on both the offensive and defensive end.

We are completely reliant on a 2nd year #1C, a rookie #1D and a goaltender with 34 career starts.

That's not by design. That's Benning striking gold by pure luck after building a team full of overpaid plugs on garbage contracts.

Right, being dragged down by beating the current Stanley Cup champs, and taking the cup favorites to game 7. Great take, champ.

 

[GetFocht]

The best part of this run is Canucks are winning while their best players haven't entered their prime yet.

Its going to be a fun 5-8 years moving forward.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

The 2001-02 Islanders were the 10th-best team in that franchise's 48-year history. I can't fathom how people can possibly think Mike Milbury was a bad GM!

not even close to comparable. NYI won 3 games in the first round and lost against the Toronto maple leafs of all people. We have won 9 postseason games, now 10, along the toughest road anyone has had to face this year. This is fully Benning’s team now, and they are delivering results. You want positive results, don’t you? At the end of the day a team is more than just the stats you see on paper. This is bigger than the video games you play. This team is playing for each other.

Oh, and I read this is now the fourth most successful team in Canucks history.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

What are your opinions of management if we do win the Cup this year? I've been on the fence but I think if we win the Cup, I can forgive the mistakes.

Oh great. Only one team in 31 wins the cup each year. I’m glad your expectations are so reasonable.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

They would erect a statue of Jim Benning outside of Rogers Arena and it would be glorious, if only for all the collective minds blown from this board.

No statue, please. Benning is not above the rest of the team. Win as a team, lose as a team.
If he becomes as well loved as Quinn then we can talk.