Malkin named to IIHF All-Time Russian Team...Ovechkin left off

[Kairi Zaide]

Legacy? Sure. However Malkin has been the better player.

That said, as previously stated the margin has been slim. We also must take into account other variables:

1: Ovechkin has a playing style more conducive to strong play at an advanced than Malkin.

2: Malkin has been awful this year whereas Ovechkin hasn't.

It's possible that Ovechkin will surpass him. We shall see...

I don't know if you meant "at an advanced stats level", but if so, no, not really. Career wise (well, since 07-08 since advanced stats don't go further back), Malkin has the edge in regards to advanced stats, though OV has the best individual season.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

On another thought, they have Gretzky selected as a right winger? He has never played right wing in his entire life.

It’s really just the top 3 forwards, don’t get hung up on where they are slotted.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That's not the blasphemous move most will think it is.

 

[Havre]

Depends on the criteria. Best overall hockey player of the two? I would say Malkin. Most effective in the NHL? I prefer Ovechkin.

On European ice I would go with Malkin every time. So I don't see the controversy here. Would be a close call either way.

 

[SkinsFan09]

I'd rather be on the NHL's Top 100 list than that list. Granted, Malkin not being on the NHL Top 100 is one of the most shameful things this league has ever done.

But a slight edge in PPG doesn't make up for 3 MVPs, 3 Pearsons, and not getting to play with Sidney Crosby, even if just on the powerplay.

 

[Amazinmets73]

I don't know if you meant "at an advanced stats level", but if so, no, not really. Career wise (well, since 07-08 since advanced stats don't go further back), Malkin has the edge in regards to advanced stats, though OV has the best individual season.

Going purely off advanced stats is unfair to Ovechkin; he has 2 brilliant offensive seasons pre-advanced stats.

 

[Albatros]

What a weak team, Malkin is light years apart from belonging ahead of Soviet era stars.

 

[Amazinmets73]

I'd rather be on the NHL's Top 100 list than that list. Granted, Malkin not being on the NHL Top 100 is one of the most shameful things this league has ever done.

But a slight edge in PPG doesn't make up for 3 MVPs, 3 Pearsons, and not getting to play with Sidney Crosby, even if just on the powerplay.

That top 100 was... Beyond belief. No Malkin, Iginla or Thornton but Keith makes it?

 

[Devil Dancer]

Weird that Malkin is on the list. Russia has been terrible overall in international competitions throughout the Ovie/Malkin era.

 

[Ignatius]

Mister 101 greatest in NHL wondering what all fuss is about?

 

[HansonBro]

They only left Ovi off the list because he's still actively playing

 

[authentic]

Yeah I do think if Ovie played for Pittsburgh the result would have been the same because Ovechkin was very clearly the most dominant player in the NHL at the time. Put him with young Crosby and the sky is the limit. If anything, that would help tremendously. Under that circumstance Ovie probably wins the Art Ross too.

I think Draisaitl indisputably had the better season last year. Who was better on a per game basis is a closer call but still favors Draisaitl.

When was the last time someone dominated a Hart win like Ovechkin while having another player right with them in points per game on the same team and close to the same amount of games played?

 

[authentic]

I don't know if you meant "at an advanced stats level", but if so, no, not really. Career wise (well, since 07-08 since advanced stats don't go further back), Malkin has the edge in regards to advanced stats, though OV has the best individual season.

I believe he meant at an advanced age, but that's clearly not true considering how physical Ovechkin is.

 

[CapsCrazyX17]

Are some Pens fans really so insecure that they feel the need to drag Ovi into any discussion they can to struggle to show that he's not as good as their player(s)?

Fans like this are the reason that a thread about a Tom Wilson minor penalty from over a week ago is still one of the most active threads on here.

 

[Midnight Judges]

When was the last time someone dominated a Hart win like Ovechkin while having another player right with them in points per game on the same team and close to the same amount of games played?

Haha your question is super specific. There are only a few Hart wins as dominant as Ovie's in the past two decades. And out of those you want me to find instances where two great players were having great seasons on the same team? It's simply unlikely in a 30 team league. So I don't see how it proves anything.

Regardless, MSL in 2004, Forsberg in 2003, Sakic in 2001, and Lemieux in '96 aren't so far from it.

 

[Prairie Habs]

I mean, cool beans, but that was not what I was arguing. I was just saying the Hart vote is a bad metric considering one guy could be obviously better, which will make the vote not that close, but it did not mean that the actual performances were not close.

I was not even debating if Ovechkin was better or not. All I am saying is that it was close. But hey "goalzzzzzz".

If two teams play 127 games and the result is 115-12, does it really matter how many of the games were close?

It's also funny to see you reduce the argument for the best goal scorer in NHL history to "goalzzzzzzz", but the only argument the Malkin supporters (Pens fans) points per game. I would rather take the guy who has 8 rockets than the guy who might have done something.

 

[SwedishFire]

Was Geno that much better than Ovi in international tournaments?

Ues in a fact, he was.

I would liked to have Makarov over Malkin international though.

I really hate that Larionov, Makarov is outside the list

 

[Scandale du Jour]

If two teams play 127 games and the result is 115-12, does it really matter how many of the games were close?

It's also funny to see you reduce the argument for the best goal scorer in NHL history to "goalzzzzzzz", but the only argument the Malkin supporters (Pens fans) points per game. I would rather take the guy who has 8 rockets than the guy who might have done something.

Considering that all 127 voters voted on the SAME outcome, your example does not apply. You are comparing 127 different possibilities of outcomes, to 1. Or, in other words, 1 game to 127 games.

All the voting proves is that 115 people thought that Alex Ovechkin had a better season. Not that Alex Ovechkin was vastly superior to Evgeni Malkin. If you want to argue that Ovechkin has had the better career, I won't even disagree. If you want to argue that Ovechkin was vastly superior to Malkin in 2009 because he had more goals (hence the "goalzzzzz" comment, I was reducing the argument regarding THAT year in particular, not his entire career. Many players have had more impressive goal scoring seasons than Ovechkin 09, including Ovechkin 08), I will find it laughable. If you want to use that argument to separate the two due to their performances being close, have at it, it will make sense and I won't debate it... and if I did, I would talk about Malkin's historic playoff run (which has nothing to do with the Hart trophy, but does factor in "who had the better year"). DISCLAIMER: Ovechkin was very good in the playoffs as well, not saying his performance, if the Caps had advanced, would not have matched Malkin's.

In both 08 and 09, Evgeni Malkin was the only player who had an argument to beat Ovechkin for the Hart (he finished 2nd both times). In 09, I thought he could/should have won it (I won't disagree with someone picking Ovechkin because... it was close). More people thinking that Ovechkin had the better season (which is fair) does not mean there was a huge difference in performance. Especially not when the guy he supposedly EASILY BEAT won the Art Ross, won the playoff scoring race (having the best output since Mario freaking Lemieux... and no one has matched it since) AND won the Conn Smyth (perhaps the strongest Smythe win since Lemieux). If your argument to say that Ovechkin was vastly superior THAT YEAR is "goalzzzzzzzzzzzzz" and "hitzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" (and we avoided the MJ trifecta of "secondary assistsssssssssssssssssssss" this time), well, I'll just laugh at it.

So my comment was NOT about their careers. It was about 09. The poster I quoted always uses the same three arguments to pump Ovechkin's tires (goals, hits and Crosby has a lot of secondary assists) and THAT'S what I was poking fun at.

 

[YippieKaey]

In terms of NHL play Ovechkin is of course the best Russian player ever. This should not be up for debate. Malkin is close though, he´s pretty underrated. But it is possible that the list-makers only looked at international play and then i can see Ovechkin being left out, he´s not as good there as in the NHL. Possibly due to the Russian philosopohy of fancy hockey where Ovechkin is much more the typical North-American power-forward

 

[Midnight Judges]

That's true though, Malkin did have 31 secondary assists.

But Ovie had 22 so it is a difference, but not a huge difference.

 

[YippieKaey]

Malkin has a 0.056 PPG advantage. This is true. Ovi has a 0.150(isch) GPG advantage, 3000 more hits and and about 200 more games played.

One is better than the other, at least in the NHL.

 

[Sorry]

Makes sense, Malkin has been the better player overall for their national team.

 

[Atas2000]

Was Geno that much better than Ovi in international tournaments?

He was. But you have to understand that it also depends on opportunities given. Due to NHL games they often come late, jetlagged, gassed, Ovechkin once played on a broken foot. Only that of course won't have a say in terms of impact. It is also they had to chose one obviously. And malkin has had that glorious 2012 WHC. In my book both Ovechkin and Malkin aren't necessarily lock for tha All-Time team of five. All four other names are undisputed.

 

[The Macho King]

Ovi has been pretty bad in international tournaments, so this isn't terribly shocking.

More shocked Makarov didn't make it.

 

[Atas2000]

Malkin has a 0.056 PPG advantage. This is true. Ovi has a 0.150(isch) GPG advantage, 3000 more hits and and about 200 more games played.

One is better than the other, at least in the NHL.

Who is better in the NHL? If you think that's an easy question you are biased.

And it's not about games played, it's who is the better player to be on the all-time team. They had to pick an active player obviously, but IRL both players aren't necessarily on that list IMHO. Malkin has had a brilliant 2012 WHC, that made the impact I guess.