Malkin named to IIHF All-Time Russian Team...Ovechkin left off

[ViD]

See? All revolves around one tournament When did Ovechkin have the opportunity to do so? They mostly come half-broken after the NHL playoffs to play just ac couple of games. It's ararity Malkin had the chance to be ther the whole tournament. That is not an indication for anything. Without Ovechkin(and Datsyuk and Syomin) they might have lost those playoff games in that tournament 2012.

Well, I still don’t see any proof from you that Ovechkin has been better than Malkin in these tournaments, it’s always Kucherov, Shipachyov, Gusev, Malkin etc carrying the team, Ovechkin is usually a solid supporting player

 

[gwh]

Because Bobrov was that great, but due to the time in which he played he never had much exposure. As mentioned that top3 of alltime soviet/russian hockey is a very unique list.

He is massively overrated in Russia and played in 3 games.

This is like putting Sven "the waterskiing champion" Tumba in the swedish all time roster.

edit: ok, my bad. Sven the waterskiing champion is in the Swedish roster. Someone smoked a joint when making this list?

 

[Atas2000]

He is massively overrated in Russia and played in 3 games.

This is like putting Sven "the waterskiing champion" Tumba in the swedish all time roster.

edit: ok, my bad. Sven the waterskiing champion is in the Swedish roster. Someone smoked a joint when making this list?

If anything he is underrated in Russia because many if not the by far most fans did not see him play

 

[Atas2000]

Well, I still don’t see any proof from you that Ovechkin has been better than Malkin in these tournaments, it’s always Kucherov, Shipachyov, Gusev, Malkin etc carrying the team, Ovechkin is usually a solid supporting player

I never said Ovechkin was better. I said the narrative that he was bad is false and that he is in fact close to Malkin as far as NT performance goes. And he was obviously mire than just a supporting player.

 

[Siludin]

lol Bobrov is good but that's like saying Bo Jackson is greater than Tom Brady

 

[Siludin]

But I guess Sean Burke is the best Canadian goalie in international play so who cares about this list

 

[tarheelhockey]

lol Bobrov is good but that's like saying Bo Jackson is greater than Tom Brady

Eh, you could make an argument that Bo Jackson actually was a better athlete than Brady, even in the purely objective sense. Put them in a gym or on a track together and see what happens.

This would be more like an Otto Graham type situation.

 

[Wings4Life]

Is this including Olympics?

Yes.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Malkin’s been better for most of their careers. Solid list.

That's an embarrassing take.

 

[MXD]

If it goes strictly by IIHF tournaments, Malkin has been much better than Ovi

And Makarov is better than both for IIHF events?
Also, they seem to have gone for positionnal balance, and between Kharlamov and Ovechkin, the choice is REALLY easy, again if we stick to IIHF events.

 

[Jericho111091]

The absence of Ovechkin is interesting but not indefensible considering he has never truly been exceptional on the International stage. The true glaring omission imo is Makarov.

 

[YippieKaey]

Nicely manufactured non-argument, as I never di what you tell I did.

It's not clear as it can not be clear. Both players are too close in terms of performance for it to be "clear".

You are still ignoring the arguments i put forth but also denying that you said what you said. This is no way to have a conversation my friend

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

These are BS anyway. The Russian national team has been trash for the past 20 years, and neither Ovechkin nor Malkin could do anything about it.

 

[filinski77]

Lol anyone who genuinely thinks Malkin has had a comparable NHL career to OV or been "better" most of the time was definitely hit in the head by an OV one timer. Malkin's NHL career is crap compared to OV.

Wouldn't go so far as saying it's "crap" compared to Ovi, but definitely not in the same tier at all imo.

	Ovechkin	Malkin
Pearson	3	1
Hart	3	1
Top 10 Hart	9	5
Ross	1	2
Point/GP Lead	3	1
Top 10 Points	8	4
Rocket	9	0
Top 10 Goals	13	3
Smythe	1	1
Allstar-1	7	3
Allstar 2	4	0
Allstar-3	2	0
Top 10 Points/GP	8	10
Top 10 Goals/GP	13	5

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Ovechkin blows him away at actually putting up finishes and winning trophies. Even when you look solely on a /gp basis, Ovi still has way more 1st place goal/gp and point/gp finishes, way more top-10 goal/gp finishes, and only 2 less point/gp finishes.

Peak: Ovi
Trophy Case: Ovi
Top /gp finishes: Ovi
Career /gp finishes: Tie (if one were to break the tie, Ovi's 13-5 in goal/gp finishes would give him the win here too)
Cups/Team achievements: Malkin

Even if someone wants to put a ton of stock into the playoffs, Ovechkin was consistently more important to the Caps in the playoffs than Malkin was to the Penguins in the playoffs (each line is just their ranking within their own team for each year they were in the playoffs)

Malkin			Ovechkin
Points	Goals		Points	Goals
T-2	T-6		1	T-1
3	2		1	1
1	2		1	T-1
T-3	T-2		1	1
T-2	T-2		1	1
T-1	T-5		T-6	T-2
1	2		T-1	T-1
T-12	T-7		T-1	T-2
T-3	T-3		T-5	T-2
1	2		2	1
7	4		1	2
T-1	T-1		2	1
T-7	T-7

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Hzzz]

apart from the 2012 wc, i dont think malkin has really been that much better than ovechkin in international tournaments.

 

[Atas2000]

These are BS anyway. The Russian national team has been trash for the past 20 years, and neither Ovechkin nor Malkin could do anything about it.

You can't blame two guys for the systemic attempt to deconstruct Russia in the 90s though.

 

[Atas2000]

apart from the 2012 wc, i dont think malkin has really been that much better than ovechkin in international tournaments.

That's the point. Most people would only bring up that tournament.

 

[Voight]

Wasn't this a positional thing? Hence why Kharlamov made it as the LW.

 

[ItWasJustified]

This is like putting Sven "the waterskiing champion" Tumba in the swedish all time roster.

edit: ok, my bad. Sven the waterskiing champion is in the Swedish roster. Someone smoked a joint when making this list?

I hope this is a joke.

 

[Son Goku]

Malkin has a 0.056 PPG advantage. This is true. Ovi has a 0.150(isch) GPG advantage, 3000 more hits and and about 200 more games played.

One is better than the other, at least in the NHL.

You know more hits means you’re chasing the puck more right?

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

apart from the 2012 wc, i dont think malkin has really been that much better than ovechkin in international tournaments.

I agree in a sense that both guys have mostly been disappointing relative to expectations. You think they go out there and dominate but it doesn't happen.

With the exception that 12 whc which was the most dominant i've seen a player play in those tournaments, probably ever. It was ridiculous. Felt like he could beat teams alone, and they ended up winning the gold medal. Ovi is missing a tourney like that from the mens level.

And, Geno has a bit over PPG in total from WHC+OG+WC combined, along with great junior stats. Ovi's 79 pts in 106 games is disappointing overall. His highlight is from the U18's.

So i think it's justified Geno gets the edge, even though he's had his fair share of meh.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

You know more hits means you’re chasing the puck more right?

Yeah, I never understood why people view "hits" as a positive for Ovechkin. Most of his hits are not very influential on the play. I mean, sure, it takes its toll and the guy is a truck, but, to me, it is not something that enhances his game tremendously. I'd love to see a "heat map" of Ovechkin. He seems to spend A LOT of time on the perimeter (which is not a criticism, he is a shooter and he gets open, that's his job). He does not seem to be a "dirty area" guy. Which, once again, is not a criticism; with his shot, he does not need to be. His biggest value is getting open and unleashing that shot.

I really fail to see how the NUMBER of hits is an enhancer. I feel like it is a failed attempt at picturing him as a complete player/power forward. He is a VERY powerful/strong player, but I never saw him as a pure power forward. Of the rush, he definitely overpowers defenders though, so I guess it is semantics. Anyway, we are discussing the best of the bests here, so I guess some weird differentiators need to be found.

 

[pcruz]

Yeah?!!

Well, he still is not a top 100 player of all time!

So there!!!

 

[gwh]

Yeah?!!

Well, he still is not a top 100 player of all time!

So there!!!

top100 NHL players. You don't see Firsov or Konovalenko there either.

 

[pcruz]

top100 NHL players. You don't see Firsov or Konovalenko there either.

Was it top 100 NHL players list?
It was honestly one of the biggest snubs in sports history, so I can't possibly convince myself to invest time into the list in order to know who was there over Geno.