Malkin named to IIHF All-Time Russian Team...Ovechkin left off

[Atas2000]

Ovi has been pretty bad in international tournaments, so this isn't terribly shocking.

More shocked Makarov didn't make it.

He wasn't bad. That's a false narrative. But Makarov should be there instead of a recency bias pick.

 

[Atas2000]

Ovechkin has basically lost every single playoff game against Finland

See? That's not true, just like that whole stupid narrative about Ovechkin not being good on the NT.

Or maybe you live in a parallel universe where this never happened.

 

[Atas2000]

If it goes strictly by IIHF tournaments, Malkin has been much better than Ovi

Not really. I love how those narratives endure.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Considering how dominant the Russians were in international play for so long, and their best players actually competed in every top tournament, it's surprising that any modern players made the list in my opinion. Not that Malkin doesn't deserve it, I just would assume it would have been guys from the 60's - 80's only. Like Makarov, as previously mentioned.

 

[Atas2000]

It hink I will leave an anlytic take on this.

They had to take a recent player, better still an active player. Then it's a not so simple choice between Malkin and Ovechkin(all the belivers of the OV is bad on the NT Church, there is lithurgy starting, please attend). They had to pick one. I would pick Malkin too, because of the 2012 WHC. But he is not ahead by much. Also let's not forget those NHLers come to the NT when they have the opportunity(I will use this opportunity to say "F.. you, NHL!" F... you for that and for the Olympics). They often come gassed and jetlagged and have to plat like 2-3 playoff games right off the plane. Ovechkin once played on a broken foot for the NT, but that doesn't count, right? Malkin has had his glorious WHC tournament when he was able to be with the team from Day 1 troughout the tournament. Of course he was the lone star of that tournament. But let's not forget that without the reinforcements personfied by Syomin, Datsyuk and yes Ovechkin who came in last minute that team might have not won that title. And in general the whole thing is just another meaningless list. Nothing to gain, nothing to lose there.

But on a personal note let this be said:

It is extremely hard if not impossible to break into the real all-time Top3 of russian hockey: Bobrov, Kharlamov and Makarov are undisputed. Malkin and Ovechkin are still a whole tier below.

 

[ZJuice]

Why is Sean Burke the Canadian goalie?

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Lol anyone who genuinely thinks Malkin has had a comparable NHL career to OV or been "better" most of the time was definitely hit in the head by an OV one timer. Malkin's NHL career is crap compared to OV.

 

[YippieKaey]

Who is better in the NHL? If you think that's an easy question you are biased.

And it's not about games played, it's who is the better player to be on the all-time team. They had to pick an active player obviously, but IRL both players aren't necessarily on that list IMHO. Malkin has had a brilliant 2012 WHC, that made the impact I guess.

Never said it was "easy". Only that it was clear. As to the reasons why, i provided them in the form of the statistics mentioned. If your only reply to such an argument is to manufacture things i said and ignore things i did say and then calling me biased, i am sorry but you check all three boxes of arguing from a standpoint that is biased

 

[Atas2000]

Never said it was "easy". Only that it was clear. As to the reasons why, i provided them in the form of the statistics mentioned. If your only reply to such an argument is to manufacture things i said and ignore things i did say and then calling me biased, i am sorry but you check all three boxes of arguing from a standpoint that is biased

Nicely manufactured non-argument, as I never di what you tell I did.

It's not clear as it can not be clear. Both players are too close in terms of performance for it to be "clear".

 

[Shakey Rustie]

Why is Sean Burke the Canadian goalie?

Canada used to have a National Team, and Burke played a lot of games for them.

 

[SotasicA]

Neither deserves to be there. This must be the worst era for international success in Russian hockey history.

 

[ViD]

Not really. I love how those narratives endure.

Malkin has 68 points in 63 games at WHC while Ovechkin has 64 in 83. it’s pretty obvious

 

[ViD]

Neither deserves to be there. This must be the worst era for international success in Russian hockey history.

Is that because Russia is bad though, or is it because the world hockey has much improved in general?

 

[authentic]

Haha your question is super specific. There are only a few Hart wins as dominant as Ovie's in the past two decades. And out of those you want me to find instances where two great players were having great seasons on the same team? It's simply unlikely in a 30 team league. So I don't see how it proves anything.

Regardless, MSL in 2004, Forsberg in 2003, Sakic in 2001, and Lemieux in '96 aren't so far from it.

I realize that, but my point still stands I think. If he played for Pittsburgh and one of Crosby or Malkin was alone in Washington I don't see how he has anywhere close to that dominant of a Hart win which is why I don't believe it should be used as indisputable evidence he was better that season. They were both as close as you can get really which is what I gathered from watching them. Ovechkin gets the edge in the seasons before and after though.

 

[ZJuice]

Canada used to have a National Team, and Burke played a lot of games for them.

But.. Price.. and his personal history is not the most Canadian either..

 

[Atas2000]

Lol anyone who genuinely thinks Malkin has had a comparable NHL career to OV or been "better" most of the time was definitely hit in the head by an OV one timer. Malkin's NHL career is crap compared to OV.

Certainly not. This is the one situation where I deem the number of cups relevant. Comparing their NHL careers they are pretty dam' close and Malkin has won more cups.

 

[gwh]

Ovie chokes in the bigger international games while Malkin churns out hat tricks.

Bobrov over Mikhailov (98 goals in 105 games) is a sham though.

 

[Atas2000]

Malkin has 68 points in 63 games at WHC while Ovechkin has 64 in 83. it’s pretty obvious

It is certainly not about who scored more points. That's a avery flawed stat for the WHC. If you score 5 goals against Italy, does that count just as much?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Is this including Olympics?

 

[Atas2000]

Ovie chokes in the bigger international games while Malkin churns out hat tricks.

Bobrov over Mikhailov (98 goals in 105 games) is a sham though.

Bobrov is unreachable. Not only for Mikhailov.

And the stupid shite about OV is really not funny at this point. This just contradicts what I have seen with my own eyes.

 

[ViD]

It is certainly not about who scored more points. That's a avery flawed stat for the WHC. If you score 5 goals against Italy, does that count just as much?

When did Ovechkin take over an entire tournament like Malkin did in 2012? Never

 

[gwh]

Bobrov is unreachable. Not only for Mikhailov.

And the stupid shite about OV is really not funny at this point. This just contradicts what I have seen with my own eyes.

Why is Bobrov untouchable? I can list at least 20 more scary soviet forwards being an old crony.

BTW wouldn't think too much about this list, since Wayne "2 IIHF events ever" Gretzky is included.

 

[authentic]

Lol anyone who genuinely thinks Malkin has had a comparable NHL career to OV or been "better" most of the time was definitely hit in the head by an OV one timer. Malkin's NHL career is crap compared to OV.

Lol then why does he have a 1.17 points per game compared to Ovechkin at 1.10 and over a point per game in the playoffs vs. under? Of course giving Ovechkin the edge is reasonable because of how healthy he's been but looking purely at who's been better it's obviously close with Malkin being more productive per game in NHL regular season, playoffs and internationally.

 

[Atas2000]

When did Ovechkin take over an entire tournament like Malkin did in 2012? Never

See? All revolves around one tournament When did Ovechkin have the opportunity to do so? They mostly come half-broken after the NHL playoffs to play just ac couple of games. It's ararity Malkin had the chance to be ther the whole tournament. That is not an indication for anything. Without Ovechkin(and Datsyuk and Syomin) they might have lost those playoff games in that tournament 2012.

 

[Atas2000]

Why is Bobrov untouchable? I can list at least 20 more scary soviet forwards being an old crony.

BTW wouldn't think too much about this list, since Wayne "2 IIHF events ever" Gretzky is included.

Because Bobrov was that great, but due to the time in which he played he never had much exposure. As mentioned that top3 of alltime soviet/russian hockey is a very unique list.