Post-Game Talk: Make it so

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Maybe they already have it figured out! Look at the perfect trapezoid zone defense
View attachment 772110

This picture sums up the utter garbage this season has been.

 

[GMofOilers]

I watch a lot of games.
This team has set a new low for team defence.
Its embarrassing.

To suggest that the goaltending needs to be better BEFORE they improve the defence doesnt make sense. If there is one thing the team has control over its putting in the effort to play defense. This team doesnt do that.

An all star goalie doesnt fix this defensive shit show.
He may cover it up for a while (just like McDavids and Draisaitls offence has in past seasons) but it doesnt solve the problem.

You would be surprised how much a save would mean to this group.

To quote coach last night “ I see players that are so scared of making a mistake they are paralyzed”

That right there is true. These players can defend, they did it all last year. What they can’t do is making a god dam save, in which the quote comes into play.

 

[tiger_80]

f*** you ken holland

Holland: "I'm just Ken."

 

[K1984]

Here we have something new to discuss. Yes, positionally at times the team could be in better man back positions. But as others have pointed out their whole careers here McDrai have been about production. For years the team wasn't even capable of gaining a playoff spot with the brutal support roster they had. So that the players have been trained to do this and I did feel that the team was trained to score tons and focus primarly on that last season.

The best defensive play of this team was under Tippett. Thats when most Drai playing D traction took place. It hasn't as much since.

I will note that several times last night McD was a demon on the backcheck. He was trying to do anything humanly possible to get a result. you think he doesn't care about winning? Just asking.

In anycase an area of agreement for us would be the team needs to be more present in NZ without the puck. They're losing that area of ice at times.


Confusing reply. So it is possible for a goalie to come in here and resurrect. Right? Thats what I've been saying.

I disagree though in that any competent goalie could come in here and reset.


No.

It's possible for a goalie to come in and improve on what we've had in net so far. Won't actually convert to wins with the type of chances that we give up short of someone going on a Vezina quality goaltending run that would probably be unprecedented in terms of the Grade A sv% required to actually start winning with consistency.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This is a save Skinner can't make. Goaltending talent, athleticism is a thing every bit as much as McDavid having talent, athleticism (explosive skating) that say a Nugent Hopkins doesn't have.

Stuart Skinner would never make a save like this:



Look at how Roloson is reading the play and anticipating the pass while making an incredible left to right push off to get over. That is TALENT. That's not random luck.

You wouldn't think you have to post this on a hockey board but apparently after years of watching doofus like Skinner in net, goalie talent isn't even known on this board by several posters.

But its not just talent. Its about goalies that have glaring weaknesses that teams can just exploit for fun. Basically any pass across that finds stick is a goal, basically any pass from behind net that finds stick is a goal. Thats a sad game where the team is losing a lot of the time.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You wouldn't think you have to post this on a hockey board but apparently after years of watching doofus like Skinner in net, goalie talent isn't even known on this board by several posters.

But its not just talent. Its about goalies that have glaring weaknesses that teams can just exploit for fun. Basically any pass across that finds stick is a goal, basically any pass from behind net that finds stick is a goal. Thats a sad game where the team is losing a lot of the time.

Do you think the Oilers deserved to win yesterday? Because they didn’t.

 

[9GWG9]

This is all on the crease! Yes the D is playing at their worst but make a big save FFS! He could have had that 3rd goal and also stopped the cross-crease pass on the 4th. Skinner is at the top of the shit list for me. Then that #2 guy.

 

[bone]

A strong arguement can be made that the goalie's are simply not that good either.

Were we playing a trap and mistake free hockey under Mike Smith? No. We played firewagon hockey in front of him too. The difference is his save percentage was above .900 every year and in both playoffs.

Skinner and Campbell's is not.

I always come back to the idea that regardless of whether this team is bad defensively or not, we are currently trending towards the worst save percentage over a season since the league was 26 teams.

No one can tell me this defense is the worst overall since 1995 especially when this time frame includes multiple expansion teams in a time when the NHL didn't gift expansion team extremely deep rosters through the draft. Many of those years are also in the non-salary cap era teams where low budget teams would get eaten alive by the richer teams.

As there's no way this is the worst defensive group in this time frame but it is still getting the worst save percentage over that time frame, the goalies are 100% part of the problem and quite possibly the actual problem as the team is also now terrified of making any mistakes because they always turn into goals which makes them tentative and more susceptible to those mistakes.

 

[Soundwave]

The problem is they aren’t just cheating when we’re down by 4, they do it when we’re tied, they do it when we’re up, they do it literally every time they touch the ice and it’s been like that going back seasons. I guess that game was uncharacteristic in the fact they allowed 4 goals up front instead of over the course of the game or after building a lead.

I’m sorry but the Oilers never had a hope of getting back to tied, Carolina isn’t the type of team that’s going to allow 4 goals unanswered, they took pity and eased of with a very comfortable lead but they absolutely could of put their foot back on the gas if the Oilers happened to get within one.

My point is that if you want your team to play sound, structured hockey, it has to start with your leaders and best players.

How big of a moron do you have to be as a role player to not understand that you don't get to play like the offensive superstars though?

Do you supposed Semenko and Steven Smith sat there thinking they didn't have to play defense or play their role and could fancy pants it out there because Gretzky and Kurri took some risks?

If you're anyone on the blue line, if you're a bottom 6 player, even a Nugent Hopkins ... what exactly is your excuse for not playing your role defensively?

You're not freaking McDavid. No Dumbnell, you're not even a star defencemen, ok, so you don't get to do the things a Makar or Hughes do either.

Sit down, shut the f*** up, and do your job and don't give me that crap about "well Connor and Leon are going for it", yeah you're not even an All-Star player, let alone a franchise player, let alone a generational player. They get leeway in their game because they have more skill in their pinky finger than the rest of you bozos have in your entire body.

Shut the f*** up and do your job if you're a role player and let me clue the dummies on this roster in on who is a role player -- are you wearing no. 97 or no. 29? No? Then you are a role player you dumb shit. Play within that.

 

[Old Boys Club]

Not letting the defense off the hook here, they suck.

But it was amazing to watch Kotchekov break up 3-4(!!) cross crease passes/drives to the net with his stick. Why are Oilers goalies incapable of doing this? They just watch the pass go across and end up in their net.

 

[guymez]

Here we have something new to discuss. Yes, positionally at times the team could be in better man back positions. But as others have pointed out their whole careers here McDrai have been about production. For years the team wasn't even capable of gaining a playoff spot with the brutal support roster they had. So that the players have been trained to do this and I did feel that the team was trained to score tons and focus primarly on that last season.

The best defensive play of this team was under Tippett. Thats when most Drai playing D traction took place. It hasn't as much since.

I will note that several times last night McD was a demon on the backcheck. He was trying to do anything humanly possible to get a result. you think he doesn't care about winning? Just asking.

In anycase an area of agreement for us would be the team needs to be more present in NZ without the puck. They're losing that area of ice at times.

This cant be an on/off switch. Offence or nothing.
Part of a players maturity involves being able to read the circumstances in a game and react accordingly. To play responsibly.
At least if the team wants to win the big prize.
The 80's Oilers had to learn that the hard way and it still holds true today.

I think that a large part of the reason the team responded more to Tippett (they still got him fired anyway) was because they were an older team and had burned through a couple of coaches by then. They were more amenable to the messaging. Despite that it was still very inconsistent.

Its this teams achilles heal for sure and the other teams in the League are all over it now.

 

[9GWG9]

This picture sums up the utter garbage this season has been.

This is when I turned the channel.

 

[bone]

The Oilers hang their golaies out to dry all game every game. Its not just periodic breakdowns.
The defence on this team is a joke.
Its unprecedented and to think that its just overlooked like it doesnt matter is mind boggling.

Quite frankly though, the frequency of these mistakes seems to be increasing as the goalies let more goals in. So I'd also argue the goalies are hanging their defense out to dry creating a tentative group that is also now shell shocked as they go into every game fearing that even a single mistake has a large probability of going in.

 

[guymez]

No.

Well...then what are you saying?

 

[Drivesaitl]

The problem is they aren’t just cheating when we’re down by 4, they do it when we’re tied, they do it when we’re up, they do it literally every time they touch the ice and it’s been like that going back seasons. I guess that game was uncharacteristic in the fact they allowed 4 goals up front instead of over the course of the game or after building a lead.

I’m sorry but the Oilers never had a hope of getting back to tied, Carolina isn’t the type of team that’s going to allow 4 goals unanswered, they took pity and eased of with a very comfortable lead but they absolutely could of put their foot back on the gas if the Oilers happened to get within one.

My point is that if you want your team to play sound, structured hockey, it has to start with your leaders and best players.

When the team does that they don't score. What then? The team is a poorly constructed EV club. The team has horrible goaltending. The team has average at best D.

I guess we could lose all games 3-1 mitigating GA.

As I stated in offseason this roster was going to look old, slow, and tired. Was saying that for a month. One of the main problems is the team getting older, and ONLY recruiting older players.

So that we get a flotsam of Ryan, Janmark, Erne, Brown, Gagner just getting older. These are not ideal role players because they lack identity. So that it falls on the star players of the team to also be the meat and potatoes on the team and be physical. Its just a poor mix and basically on this club all weight falls to McDrai, Kane, Hyman. Nuge even is having another one of his holiday seasons.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This cant be an on/off switch. Offence or nothing.
Part of a players maturity involves being able to read the circumstances in a game and react accordingly. To play responsibly.
At least if the team wants to win the big prize.
The 80's Oilers had to learn that the hard way and it still holds true today.

I think that a large part of the reason the team responded more to Tippett (they still got him fired anyway) was because they were an older team and had burned through a couple of coaches by then. They were more amenable to the messaging. Despite that it was still very inconsistent.

Its this teams achilles heal for sure and the other teams in the League are all over it now.

The team maturity and experience realizes the goaltending is complete crap. They can't say that in words in a hockey team based environment but its immediately evident.

Are your forgetting that one season was salvaged because Smith found his game after both he and Koskinen had struggled. Well this is worse in terms of the goaltending we're getting.

 

[Soundwave]

When the team does that they don't score. What then? The team is a poorly constructed EV club. The team has horrible goaltending. The team has average at best D.

I guess we could lose all games 3-1 mitigating GA.

As I stated in offseason this roster was going to look old, slow, and tired. Was saying that for a month. One of the main problems is the team getting older, and ONLY recruiting older players.

So that we get a flotsam of Ryan, Janmark, Erne, Brown, Gagner just getting older. These are not ideal role players because they lack identity. So that it falls on the star players of the team to also be the meat and potatoes on the team and be physical. Its just a poor mix and basically on this club all weight falls to McDrai, Kane, Hyman. Nuge even is having another one of his holiday seasons.

Ryan Nugent Hopkins' theme song for the season

 

[guymez]

You would be surprised how much a save would mean to this group.

To quote coach last night “ I see players that are so scared of making a mistake they are paralyzed”

That right there is true. These players can defend, they did it all last year. What they can’t do is making a god dam save, in which the quote comes into play.

No team waits for a goalie to make saves before they take care of their D zone coverage.

The goaltending has been inconsistent but this team this year has been garbage defensively.
Its under their complete control not to be garbage. Just do your job.

This mindset that you cant do whats in completely your control until something else changes just doesnt make sense.

The team maturity and experience realizes the goaltending is complete crap. They can't say that in words in a hockey team based environment but its immediately evident.

Are your forgetting that one season was salvaged because Smith found his game after both he and Koskinen had struggled. Well this is worse in terms of the goaltending we're getting.

A dman or forward doesnt think to himself...hmmm...it doesnt matter what I do because our goalie is crap so I will just say f*ck it and not cover anyone...lol
Have you played?
Players play within their ability offensively but defence is learned. Once you learn how to play defence you dont just stop if the goalie isnt up to par.

A player has to be interested in putting in the work to play defence...for an offensive player its part of maturing.
Its quite clear to me after multiple defensive coaches that this team isnt interested in playing defence. They would rather let the goalie do all the work.

 

[Soundwave]

No team waits for a goalie to make saves before they take care of their D zone coverage.

The goaltending has been inconsistent but this team this year has been garbage defensively.
Its under their complete control not to be garbage. Just do your job.

This mindset that you cant do whats in completely your control until something else changes just doesnt make sense.

It's been bad for a lot longer than that, stop acting like this is just something that randomly happened out of nowhere.

The goaltending has been in the heads of this team since the Vegas series at least.

Holland is the one who decided to let that bomb keep ticking without doing anything about it, well now its blown up.

What did you think was going to happen. That McDavid and Draisaitl were just going to smile and say "aw don't worry about it" and go out and drive 4-5 goals worth of offense every night and never get sick and tired of that crap?

This org got lucky the two of them bailed it out for a full regular season last year. When Skinner shit the bed in the Vegas series, it was the last straw, he and Campbell needed to show something this year and they have not.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

By your own admission its the one game you've watched this season and you're concluding all this from what was a very uncharacteristic game in which the team was down 4 goals only 14mins into the game.

At that point I wouldn't be expecting superstars to protect the 4 goal deficit, I would expect them to cheat by then trying to get the scoreline back. To the teams credit they mostly did, and only some bad luck and decent goaltending (which we rarely get) stopped them from getting a tie.

The unfortunately reality on the Canes fifth goal is McDavid and Draisaitl were part of a four Oiler fail with numbers that didn't protect the house. This goal stood up as the difference in the game when Carolina took their foot of the gas in third period.

This team defending malaise runs deep and cuts across all areas. The leaders are stuck in the mud too and collectively this team is failing to outscore their chronic poor decision making. I feel for McDavid and Draisaitl that have carried this team forever. But bad habits are ingrained everywhere.

 

[McDNicks17]

Every team does man, watch other teams, goals are scored on mistakes every game, every night, every team in the NHL. Every single goal is scored on mistakes.

Goalies are there to make saves

There's basically a perfect correlation between high danger save percentage and the guys everyone considers great goalies.

They're great goalies because they make those saves. Skinner and Campbell are the opposite.

 

[Drivesaitl]

No team waits for a goalie to make saves before they take care of their D zone coverage.

The goaltending has been inconsistent but this team this year has been garbage defensively.
Its under their complete control not to be garbage. Just do your job.

This mindset that you cant do whats in completely your control until something else changes just doesnt make sense.


That doesnt make sense.
A dman or forward doesnt think to himself...hmmm...it doesnt matter what I do because our goalie is crap so I will just say f*ck it and not cover anyone...lol
Have you played?

The realization that you have NHL worst goaltending in net results in overplaying. It results in even players with the pedigree of Ekholm chasing and being out of position desperate as he is to get to pucks and knowing full well that any shot could be a GA. I mean Skinner let a goal in from the blueline on a dump, everybody saw that. KK on the bench visibly groaned.

100 people here are saying it and you don't see it. Terrible goaltending deflates teams. It deflates their play, it subverts their play. When you don't trust your goaltending the own zone play erodes, partly through panic.

In anycase theres little point to the further discussion on this topic as we both have our ingrained views on it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The unfortunately reality on the Canes fifth goal is McDavid and Draisaitl were part of a four Oiler fail with numbers that didn't protect the house. This goal stood up as the difference in the game when Carolina took their foot of the gas in third period.

This team defending malaise runs deep and cuts across all areas. The leaders are stuck in the mud too and collectively this team is failing to outscore their chronic poor decision making. I feel for McDavid and Draisaitl that have carried this team forever. But bad habits are ingrained everywhere.

Not gonna agree here because the D are both present front of net. They are in the zone that D need to be covering. If the forwards drop too low, to an area already being occupied then they leave everything up high, and other exploits up there, which is exactly how the Canes scored the goal that was called back.

The scorer was close to net in the slot. Thats a primary cover for D instead of sticking their thumbs up their arses If the scorer was higher up then I put it to forwards not covering.

 

[Soundwave]

The goaltending in the Vegas series in particular shook this team mentally more than Holland accounted for.

He was stupid and thought "oh this is just another growing pain and if we keep getting kicks at the can, we'll just succeed like Detroit!" mindset.

The truth of what was happening though was Skinner getting his lunch money taken by Adin Hill and potentially costing the Oilers a trip to the Finals was something that lingered with this team all summer. No one would say it out loud but you know they were all thinking it.

Ken Holland didn't recognize the situation as it existed and instead doubled down on the same goaltending tandem that secretly the group had already lost trust in.

When the season started at 8-1 and then the team went out and outshot, outplayed the crap out of the Canucks in game 2 and still couldn't get a save ... that was it. Done.

Any trust in the goaltending was 100% gone.

 

[TB12]

We're back to the Eakins Swarm days of circling a guy alone in the slot and saying "this guy scored"


Also, I tuned in late last night. What happened to Nurse in warmup? (I saw Skinner's ballerina fall into the 'Canes side of centre ice)