Post-Game Talk: Make it so

[guymez]

Careful you dont dance too hard on his grave, he isn’t gone yet.

Campbell is probably coming back to this team at some point this season. They are doing whatever they can to help him turn things around. He’s untradeable at this point without pissing away some valuable assets, can’t be bought out until end of the season so if they can get him to his level last playoffs and pre season with some tinkering, he can be serviceable and that is probably a bigger win than him being gone at this point, given what that cost would be.

They now recognize that Dustin Schwartz is a big part of the problem and they have removed him from “helping” Campbell anymore. I suspect his tether is short, as it should be.

I reluctantly agree with you on the first part.
The likelihood that the team feels forced to try and extract something out of Campbelll is pretty high. Only because Holland screwed this team with the signing and the lack of cap space he created as well.

The evidence that Schwartz is part of the problem is questionable IMO.
In another thread I outlined that this team hasnt had a true #1 goalie since Cam Talbot and he thrived under Schwartz. I think that Schwartz is just low hanging fruit for fans who expected him to spin one of the many mediocre (or worse) goalies into a starter.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I reluctantly agree with you on the first part.
The likelihood that the team feels forced to try and extract something out of Campbelll is pretty high. Only because Holland screwed this team with the signing and the lack of cap space he created as well.

The evidence that Schwartz is part of the problem is questionable IMO.
In another thread I outlined that this team hasnt had a true #1 goalie since Cam Talbot and he thrived under Schwartz. I think that Schwartz is just low hanging fruit for fans who expected him to spin one of the many mediocre (or worse) goalies into a starter.

Cam Talbot had his own goalie coach. One he's used for a longtime. Talbot has only worked primarily with Dipronio, or Allaire in NY.

Cam Talbot finds reason to celebrate with Kings

Talbot adds much-needed depth for the Kings and reunites with Kevin Fiala and Coach Todd McLellan.

webcache.googleusercontent.com

The Oilers however in their infinite wisdom insisted eventually that Talbot work with Schwartz and Talbot became less solid not more time he had advice from Schwartz.

Schartz will try to tell people he was responsible for Talbots success. its a ridiculous claim. Interestingly you won't find Talbot crediting Schwartz.

 

[guymez]

Cam Talbot had his own goalie coach. One he's used for a longtime. Talbot has only worked with Dipronio, or Allaire in NY.

Cam Talbot finds reason to celebrate with Kings

Talbot adds much-needed depth for the Kings and reunites with Kevin Fiala and Coach Todd McLellan.

webcache.googleusercontent.com

The Oilers however in their infinite wisdom insisted eventually that Talbot work with Schwartz and Talbot became less solid not more time he had advice from Schwartz.

Schartz will try to tell people he was responsible for Talbots success. its a ridiculous claim. Interestingly you won't find Talbot crediting Schwartz.

He credits Allaire for helping him at the beginning of his pro career. That suggests the DiPronio was likely used in addition to team coaches...not in lieu of.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He credits Allaire for helping him at the beginning of his pro career. That suggests the DiPronio was likely used in addition to team coaches...not in lieu of.

He credits two goalie coaches multiple times in the article. He even credits Mclellan, his former coach. Nowhere does he credit Schwartz who actually had more to do with breaking Talbots game.

You're the only one on an island supporting Schwartz at this point. You trying to use Talbot as indication of Schwartz success is grasping at straws.

 

[guymez]

He credits two goalie coaches multiple times in the article. He even credits Mclellan, his former coach. Nowhere does he credit Schwartz who actually had more to do with breaking Talbots game.

You're the only one on an island supporting Schwartz at this point. You trying to use Talbot as indication of Schwartz success is grasping at straws.

LOL
Your 'proof' isnt proof at all.

Try again.

Your hate knows no bounds. I you dont like a player or coach then its a done deal.
There is no arguing with you. Even dubious info is used as definitive proof and thats what you are doing here as well.

 

[Drivesaitl]

LOL
Your 'proof' isnt proof at all.

Try again.

If you need further proof by now of how inept Schwartz is as a goalie coach thats all on you. Everybody else has figured it out.

Wheres your proof that Talbot was thriving due to Schwartz? Just that you stated that? lol

 

[guymez]

If you need further proof by now of how inept Schwartz is as a goalie coach thats all on you. Everybody else has figured it out.

Wheres your proof that Talbot was thriving due to Schwartz? Just that you stated that? lol

In the article...Talbot mentioned the most influential people in his career...omission doesnt mean that the other people were a negative influence.
Thats what you are implying. Its weak.

Lastly...just because a majority of people are making a claim doesnt make it true.

That is a rather pathetic element in society right now IMO. Too many people look at what the majority opinion is and then allow that to influence their opinion.

 

[Drivesaitl]

In the article...Talbot mentioned the most influential people in his career...omission doesnt mean that the other people were a negative influence.
Thats what you are implying.

ffs you were the one implying that Talbots success here was due to Schwartz. Your line of logic is indecipherable. You provide nothing as evidence, completely ignore the obvious, that Talbot got worse here the longer he was here with Schwartz, and its 2023 now and Schwartz has undermined goalies here for a decade and you're the one poster here asking for proof that Schwartz is a problem. Everybody else on the board near unanimous that he is.

I provided citation refuting your claim. you of course bleat on that it means nothing, only your words mean anything. lol

We get it Guymez. Everbody else is wrong, so you must be right. lol

 

[guymez]

ffs you were the one implying that Talbots success here was due to Schwartz. Your line of logic is indecipherable. You provide nothing as evidence, completely ignore the obvious, that Talbot got worse here the longer he was here, and its 2023 and Schwartz has undermined goalies here for a decade and you're the one poster here asking for proof that Schwartz is a problem.

I provided citation refuting your claim. you of course bleat on that it means nothing, only your words mean anything. jfc

Its funny to think that you claim to be a poster adamant about word usage and yet you mange to misread so many posts. Kind of telling actually.

Lets go over this again because context matters.

I was responding to a post that started out with the following line "I think Talbot is a perfect example of a Schwartz failure."

I said that Talbot actually thrived during his time in Edmonton...while Schwartz was goalie coach.
It was under Schwartzs tutelage.
He did.
Its just a fact.
An inconvenient fact for you no doubt.
I never once said that it was only due to Schwartz.

The point of the post was to refute the claim that Talbot was a perfect example of Schawrtzs failure.
That claim doesnt hold up.

Again...based on previous exchanges...I am sure that the above reality will have little to no impact on your next post.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Its funny to think that you claim to be a poster adamant about word usage and yet you mange to misread so many posts. Kind of telling actually.

Lets go over this again because context matters.

I was responding to a post that started out with the following line "I think Talbot is a perfect example of a Schwartz failure."

I said that Talbot actually thrived during his time in Edmonton...while Schwartz was goalie coach.
He did.
Its just a fact.
An inconvenient fact for you no doubt.
I never once said that it was due to Schwartz.

Again...based on previous exchanges...I am sure that the above reality will have little to no impact on your next post.

Again......this is your post I had responded to:

The evidence that Schwartz is part of the problem is questionable IMO.
In another thread I outlined that this team hasnt had a true #1 goalie since Cam Talbot and he thrived under Schwartz. I think that Schwartz is just low hanging fruit for fans who expected him to spin one of the many mediocre (or worse) goalies into a starter.

Please explain to anybody still reading how or why you used Talbot as an example of Schwartz success and Talbot "thriving" under that tutelage.

Again you use your own premises as evidence, while denying any and all information to the contrary. You never supported your initial premise.

i guess an inconvenient fact for you is Talbot did worse here the longer he was associated with Schwartz.

In anycase I'll give you the last word propping Schwartz here. What a hill to pick.

 

[guymez]

Again......this is your post I had responded to:

The evidence that Schwartz is part of the problem is questionable IMO.
In another thread I outlined that this team hasnt had a true #1 goalie since Cam Talbot and he thrived under Schwartz. I think that Schwartz is just low hanging fruit for fans who expected him to spin one of the many mediocre (or worse) goalies into a starter.

Please explain to anybody still reading how or why you used Talbot as an example of Schwartz success and Talbot "thriving" under that success.

Again you use your own premises as evidence, while denying any and all information to the contrary. You never supported your initial premise.

i guess an inconvenient fact for you is Talbot did worse here the longer he was associated with Schwartz.

In anycase I'll give you the last word propping Schwartz here.

It is questionable.
Where is the proof? Show your work.

I even outlined that fact that Talbot played a massive amount of games and was way overused and likely burned out for his last season in Edmonton.
That to me makes the most sense for why his play started to drop off.
I have evidence for that....I detailed it in a post. Talbot played 209 games (including playoffs) in his first 3 years in Edmonton. Thats was massive. Completely unprecedented for him.
The drop off makes sense from that perspective. MacT over played him.

Where is your evidence that the drop off must have been caused by Schwartz?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Interesting discussion.

Full credit to Cam Talbot for carving out a journeyman NHL career. His post Oilers time he's played a high of 82 games in Minnesota over 2 seasons with the five teams he dressed with. In all cases, his teams move on from him fairly quickly to search for goaltender upgrades. He continues to find work as a short-term gap fill. Maybe he sticks on a cap strapped LA experiment.

So unfortunate the Oilers opted for a patchwork goaltending strategy that papered over this critical position. Had a chance to draft first round pedigree goaltenders and passed for an inefficient volume later pick hope and prayer strategy. Trying to bailer twine and duck tape this position with older, established (fully formed) veteran options.

Now they are so desperate with their $25 million cap crippling goaltender bet that they are airlifting additional one on one tutoring help with Manny Legace. Sadly Campbell's repeating, systemic kryptonite has been between his ears which has submarined his athletic raw ability.

Fire Schwartz for identifying and endorsing Campbell as this team's winning window $25 million final big piece to complete their roster. This epic failure shifted performance responsibilities onto a rookie goaltender to step into Edmonton's goaltending graveyard and carry the weight of its franchise ownership, management, team and white hot fanbase for Cup run expectations. The Oil season last year was at high risk of being a lost one if the rookie tender didn't step up.

 

[Stoneman89]

I don't really get involved in all the Schwartz talk, but I do recall the Oilers playing the shit out of Talbot while he was here, as any other options were limited or non-existent. And for the most part, he did well, but was eventually run out of town when the infamous "first shot always goes in" mantra was in full swing. But his first year, he was arguably the Oilers MVP. He stole a ton of games for us. Nice to see him doing well this year, even though I hate LA.

 

[belair]

The big talking point should be what the team decides to do with Sylvain Rodrigue, who according to Friedman has been a guy getting attention around the league.

He's got a pretty decent resume so far developing Skinner into a respectable 1A and putting him kid on the right track to seeing some starts in the very near future.

It's hard to see why the team continues to run with Schwartz looking at the history books.

 

[guymez]

I don't really get involved in all the Schwartz talk, but I do recall the Oilers playing the shit out of Talbot while he was here, as any other options were limited or non-existent. And for the most part, he did well, but was eventually run out of town when the infamous "first shot always goes in" mantra was in full swing. But his first year, he was arguably the Oilers MVP. He stole a ton of games for us. Nice to see him doing well this year, even though I hate LA.

Yeah for sure. I have always liked Talbot.

As for Schwartz...I am not a fan or a detractor. I dont really know all of what he does and exactly how much actual influence he has or doesnt have, I strongly suspect that no one else on here does either.

I was just pushing back on a popular narrative on here that he must be the problem.

I started to question how posters could be making that claim based on such poor evidence.

I mean...Talbot was the only legitimate #1 goalie this team has had since Schwartz has been here and Talbot did really well during his time here. The other goalies we have seen here (aside from Smith) have been underwhelming to say the least.

So is the expectation that Schwartz be able to produce starters from a string of middling goalies?

Doesnt make much sense.

 

[Stoneman89]

The big talking point should be what the team decides to do with Sylvain Rodrigue, who according to Friedman has been a guy getting attention around the league.

He's got a pretty decent resume so far developing Skinner into a respectable 1A and putting him kid on the right track to seeing some starts in the very near future.

It's hard to see why the team continues to run with Schwartz looking at the history books.

Yes, I think it's time to consider a promotion. He's got a pretty good track record down there, but they need to be sure that Schwartz is the real problem in the first place. Campbell, for instance, came here with baggage to begin with, and continues that way. Skinner had a really good first year, but lost his confidence (not a huge surprise for a lot of goalies in their sophomore year). Talbot was decent while he was here, and Smith came as the finished product as to what he is. Koskinen was not that good in the first place, but somehow, got the huge contract based on a couple dozen games.