Confirmed with Link: Lyubushkin to ANA for MIN 2025 4th

Sabresfansince1980

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Sep 29, 2011
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Unless the Sabres are making a trade or signing someone, this is all about saving money. Once Bryson is sent down, cap room is close to $10 M. LOL

The logjam on D argument seems to be based on every D man in the top seven not getting injured. Not to mention, the idea Stillman is okay is based on games.

If this is the lineup, count on seeing Bryson/Clague playing 24 games or so this year and Stillman at close to 50, once injuries happen. And they will. They always do.

People tell me Pegula will spend but I see a team $10 M below cap with serious depth needs. Even saving money for rookie bonuses, we have tons to cap room.

The new excuse is we need cap room for 2024-2025. It's just absurd, we threw away depth signed for one year and there are tons of contracts out there for one year deals.

This looks like Pegula saving money once again.

Love to be wrong and maybe moneybags shift some coin in but this is the guy who didn't even give his lowest paid staff their vacation pay when he laid them off.
They went from having 8-9 Dmen, to having 7-8. No teams carry more than that, and the depth they do have now is 2-3 times better quality than Pilut, Fitz, etc. Stillman is going to get games, that was going to happen anyway. He's not my favorite option but he's better, again, than what they rolled out to start last season. This is not a result of just being cheap. They're better, and trading Lyubushkin doesn't actually change that at all.

That lineup seems most likely to start the season.

The wildcards (jokers?) are:

> is Ryan Johnson ready to play at this level?
> can Jokiharju play on the left side?
I believe "no" to each question. I do expect/hope for RyJo to replace Stillman in a year though, and Joker to solidify the 3rd pair with him (unless there is a big add over him and CC).
 

Rowley Birkin

Registered User
Oct 31, 2004
10,673
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Stillman is the organisational #3 LD until Ryan Johnson proves he's NHL ready and/or Joker proves he can play offside effectively (and not be a train wreck). He brings that physical element that the team is on the whole, very much lacking. Plus he's one of Adams/Granato's 'guys'.

To add to that - I think he showed good enough to be a NHL #6 during last season as well. I see him written out of projected LU's way too often.
 

TommyDangles

Registered User
Jun 18, 2021
805
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Let‘s start with how you got to 10. Come on man. I don’t know if it was on purpose or accident but come on.

He got Comrie? He waited until everyone settled their goalie position…like he did the year before…and this is what was left. What a get! And he followed up two years of inaction with…NO MOVE IN GOAL. He’s getting worse.

This is Adams 4th off-season. Any position he has completely failed to address like top 4 D and Goalie are his fault.
It's his 4th offseason and we were 1 point out of the playoffs and just had the best season in 10 years. I remember you saying we would be even worse last season?
 

TommyDangles

Registered User
Jun 18, 2021
805
841
Johnson almost completely missed the 20-21 season, playing only four games. He missed almost 20 games last season. Jokiharju constantly has a lot of minor injuries in recent years, he used to miss at least a month, and so more than once. But this is of course not a key factor, he is just not a very good player and overrated.

Here are Boosh's charts, he knows how to play defense and the physical game, Joki does not. In Arizona, Boosh looked decent for his role. Yes, he is a third pair guy, but he did a good job. Jokiharyu is a completely incomprehensible player, either he is so bad, or he simply does not fit the Granato game system, but I would trade him to find a better defender. He is almost 25 years old, it's time to stop talking about his prospects if he does not improve and is not a top 4 defender.

Risto is just a dumb player, but he is at least physical unlike Jokiharju, although they both make stupid mistakes in defense, both should not play in the top 4 and as I said, I would prefer Boosh in the third pair, not Joki, because he is better in defense and plays physical. game.

Well, I don't agree, what does Thompson have to do with it? Are we going to wait forever for Jokiharju to shoot like Thompson or what? Joki plays poorly and is not a top 4 defender, this confirms eye test and metrics, that's all.

I will say so. I would give a second chance to Lyubushkin than to give a fourth or fifth chance to Jokiharju.
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Can't you take me seriously? These are your problems, but you yourself answered me in this thread, and I see you for the first time on these boards.

I wrote a list and it was mostly trades. Georgiev was traded, Vanecek was also not in the conteder, the same with the young Gustavsson. Hill was available. There have been even more options to trade over the years and I'm sure there are now too, it's just that Adams seems afraid to spend assets to get a legitimate goaltender, not necessarily even a Vezina goaltender, at least average or slightly above average. MAF was also traded from Vegas, who knows if he would have been ready to come to Buffalo, but he has a great relationship with Bales and Vegas just threw him out. I wasn't talking about now, but about that trade from Vegas.

How do I know who it is, but it was information from journalists a few months ago. For what I bought, for that I sell. Yes, but at the same time, Johnson says that he had better offers, but he chose Buffalo. I'm sure there was a lot of demand for Clifton too.

Debatable. It's not just about this trade. I already said that I don't like Adams' offseason.

1) I don't like our goalies team, two inexperienced goalies with a bad season, fickle and unproven. And a young college guy who will have to clean up all this shit.

2) Top 4 defender is still in question. I like Clifton, but he's a wild card. Johnson is basically just an experienced player for third pair. It might work, but it might not. Perhaps Adams could have handled it better.

3) What is the problem with trading prospects? We have a lot of them and we need to fill the roster with quality players, trading one prospect is not the same as what Murray did earlier.

4) New Jersey before the past season added a normal goalie (not Vezina's caliber), a legit top 4 defender in the person of Marino, who we also really needed and Palat in UFA. And it helped them a lot and they made it to the playoffs.

Adams should have done the same, which is a great example. We needed goalie and top 4 D. Moreover, Palat signed a long-term contract, and guys like Bertuzzi, Tarasenko and probably Tatar signed (will sign) a contract for one year, which does not affect the cap in the future.

That's what I don't like about Adams' offseason.
You literally don't even use charts from last season? Like c'mon man how bad faith can you get. Thanks to the other poster for sharing the chart. These charts are also 3 year weighted averages. There's a steep decline in 20/21 & 21/22 if you're even looking at your own charts.

You had a list of RFA goalies that signed contracts with those teams. You're also looking at guys that put decent numbers on contenders and acting like they'd do the same here. Guys like Georgiev/Samsonov had worse numbers than Comrie before going to their contender teams. Comrie would probably look pretty decent on Vegas or Colorado. Let's also conveniently leave out guys like Campbell & Husso lmao.

"Moreover, Palat signed a long-term contract, and guys like Bertuzzi, Tarasenko and probably Tatar signed (will sign) a contract for one year, which does not affect the cap in the future."

Palat for 6 years? Where does he even play? When Quinn comes back where does Bertuzzi/Tarasenko go? There's just no thought going into these free agents. Tarasenko is horrible defensively. He's pretty much another Olofsson at this point.

"That's what I don't like about Adams' offseason." That's good. For a few posters on here Adams doing the opposite works out the best. Like us going to be even worse last season because we didn't splurge on FAs like Detroit or Ottawa did.
 

Jacob582

Registered User
Oct 16, 2012
9,550
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Unless the Sabres are making a trade or signing someone, this is all about saving money. Once Bryson is sent down, cap room is close to $10 M. LOL
What if this trade is all about getting rid of Lyubushkin?

I don't think they got to August and realized, oops we have 9 defensemen, which one can we trade?

They upgraded from last year's opening night from:
Boosh, Bryson, Fitzgerald
to
Clifton, EJ, Stillman.

Looks like more money spent to me.
 
Last edited:

Fjordy

Registered User
Jun 20, 2018
15,336
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You literally don't even use charts from last season? Like c'mon man how bad faith can you get. Thanks to the other poster for sharing the chart. These charts are also 3 year weighted averages. There's a steep decline in 20/21 & 21/22 if you're even looking at your own charts.

You had a list of RFA goalies that signed contracts with those teams. You're also looking at guys that put decent numbers on contenders and acting like they'd do the same here. Guys like Georgiev/Samsonov had worse numbers than Comrie before going to their contender teams. Comrie would probably look pretty decent on Vegas or Colorado. Let's also conveniently leave out guys like Campbell & Husso lmao.

"Moreover, Palat signed a long-term contract, and guys like Bertuzzi, Tarasenko and probably Tatar signed (will sign) a contract for one year, which does not affect the cap in the future."

Palat for 6 years? Where does he even play? When Quinn comes back where does Bertuzzi/Tarasenko go? There's just no thought going into these free agents. Tarasenko is horrible defensively. He's pretty much another Olofsson at this point.

"That's what I don't like about Adams' offseason." That's good. For a few posters on here Adams doing the opposite works out the best. Like us going to be even worse last season because we didn't splurge on FAs like Detroit or Ottawa did.
Because until this season, he was fine, and Jokiharju all seasons did not look too good. I already said that Boosh had a broken leg and played with an injury last season. He is a decent third pair defender who has proven it in other teams. I didn't have his charts for this season, but Jokiharju chart for three seasons in a row, so that all proves he's not very good, as is eye test.

What is your argument? You don't have it. There were various goalies on my list, some already with a contract and not all of them were traded for a contender. Vanecek, Gustavsson, MAF, Hill had a signed contract, it seems, and he didn't have NTC.

You understand that Samsonov and Georgiev played a lot more games than Comrie in the NHL. You don't see the difference at all in a guy who played one season with 10 good games and the rest of the goalies. Even Houser played some good games for Buffalo. Can we compare it with Comrie? Or maybe Tokarski? Who has better overall stats than Comrie and has played more NHL games than Comrie.

I gave Palat as an example that we could sign or trade such a player for one year, and not for the period that Palat signed. Tarasenko is a great player. Tatar is a good mid 6 forward. Bertuzzi was good. Adams could well have overpaid one of them a little for one year did.

Before last season, I said that we would score 90 points and almost guessed it. So about Ottawa and Detroit, this is nonsense. Although I'm more skeptical this season than last. In general, you are trying to pull an owl on the globe and you have no arguments,
 

elchud

Registered User
Nov 1, 2015
3,106
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1.15 is what can be buried so the big club would still have a 700k cap hit from Brysons contract.

Right. I mean there are no Pegula bucks issues. The team is still giving Bryson his full salary but it does help the cap

If the issue is, we have more cap that isn't going to be used...I guess there's something to be said there.

We should he really close to the cap next season.
 

elchud

Registered User
Nov 1, 2015
3,106
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Hey maybe we are big time buyers at the deadline, either cuz it's getting desperate for the 8 spot, or Levi is destroying the league and we are a top-4 EC team.
 

Bendium

Registered User
Oct 18, 2019
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Of our bottom 4:

Worst - Bryson. Never want to see him play in a Sabres uniform again.

2nd - Joker. Thought he was going to be a steal the first year we had him. All he has done is regress. He has no strength to build around. Addition by subtraction here. There is no reason to see him again.

3rd - Stillman. Still an unknown, and only ranked above Joker because he may have a useful physical defensive game in there somewhere. Still, most NHL defensmen out there are an upgrade, so why not just upgrade with actual talent instead of keeping hypothetical talent.

4th - Boosh. Had an injury plagued season, but should still be a serviceable 3rd pairing, especially if healthy. If you can find better? Do it in a second.

So, if you're trading Boosh, you better be trading Bryson and Joker too. You can do better! So, a competent GM needs to do that.

I am very much hoping we are clearing cap space, and going to send Joker out in a trade bringing in a legit top 4 dman.
 

Irie

Registered User
Nov 14, 2010
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Lyubushkin was the biggest enigma in the league for me last season.

He came in as advertised, running guys and making his physical presence felt while somewhat taking himself out of position out of the gate, and what he brought was something the team lacked. That lasted a couple of games and then he got hurt.

After the first week, he was obviously not healthy and he was not much of a physical presence the rest of the season.

Playing with sub-par partners, he really struggled with getting hemmed in his own end. I have never seen an NHL player gain possession of the puck in the corner and have 3+ seconds and just freeze the way Boosh did last year many times as he tried to decide what to do with the puck, until the forecheck arrived and knocked him off of it and took it away.

But with the puck in the neutral zone, or at the offensive blueline, he often found seams and made some passes that would even impress Erik Karlsson.

It was like the things I expected from him, he did not come through at all on, but instead he showed some vision and playmaking skill that I didn't think were within his abilities at all. (although not often enough to offset the his limitations).

Would not have minded to see him play a full season here while healthy, but it seemed Granato had already made up his mind on his abilities and had a low amount of confidence in him, This was evident when he was only given 8 minutes of icetime in the front end of a back-to-back with the season on the line.

Either way he was not in the team's longterm plans, and moving him saves the team some cash and clears a little of the logjam that needed to be addressed before opening night - and a 4th is a solid return (anaheim may still stink the following year, so that may be a pick in the top 100, which is something).
 

Irie

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Nov 14, 2010
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It’s Minnesota’s 4th
Doh! That's right, don't know what I was thinking. I mean, there literally is a discussion about the misunderstanding of him going to Minnesota because of the pick in this thread. (Don't get old, it makes one forgetful! )

Although.... Minnesota will be in the second straight year of having a 15M dead cap penalty season. A lot of their core will be heading well into their 30s, and they could lose their top center to free agency next offseason, so the chance of them free-falling does also exists.
 

Deep Blue Metallic

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Mar 5, 2021
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Good luck, Boosh. Gave us a few highlight reel memories. His outlet pass was thoroughly underappreciated.

I guess after acquiring 2 RD he was bound to be the odd-man out. Jokiharju is 5 years younger at 24, and the Sabres probably still see potential in him.
 

TommyDangles

Registered User
Jun 18, 2021
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Because until this season, he was fine, and Jokiharju all seasons did not look too good. I already said that Boosh had a broken leg and played with an injury last season. He is a decent third pair defender who has proven it in other teams. I didn't have his charts for this season, but Jokiharju chart for three seasons in a row, so that all proves he's not very good, as is eye test.

What is your argument? You don't have it. There were various goalies on my list, some already with a contract and not all of them were traded for a contender. Vanecek, Gustavsson, MAF, Hill had a signed contract, it seems, and he didn't have NTC.

You understand that Samsonov and Georgiev played a lot more games than Comrie in the NHL. You don't see the difference at all in a guy who played one season with 10 good games and the rest of the goalies. Even Houser played some good games for Buffalo. Can we compare it with Comrie? Or maybe Tokarski? Who has better overall stats than Comrie and has played more NHL games than Comrie.

I gave Palat as an example that we could sign or trade such a player for one year, and not for the period that Palat signed. Tarasenko is a great player. Tatar is a good mid 6 forward. Bertuzzi was good. Adams could well have overpaid one of them a little for one year did.

Before last season, I said that we would score 90 points and almost guessed it. So about Ottawa and Detroit, this is nonsense. Although I'm more skeptical this season than last. In general, you are trying to pull an owl on the globe and you have no arguments,
Your charts contradict that. He wasn't fine in 20/21 or 21/22. Not that Joki was good either, but can we stop pretending like Boosh hasn't been bad recently?

I mean my argument has been pretty obvious. I've said it like multiple times now. Nothing you're really saying makes any sense at this point. Just a lot of hindsight arguments. Like Fillip Gustavsson? A guy who had a .892 save % in 16 games before getting traded? This place would be freaking out if we traded for him last year. I can already see it. OUR ANSWER TO GOALTENDING IS ANOTHER UPL??? Comrie was even coming off a much better year than Hill or Gustavsson lol.

You could put Comrie on Vegas and he's put up decent numbers.

"You understand that Samsonov and Georgiev played a lot more games than Comrie in the NHL. You don't see the difference at all in a guy who played one season with 10 good games and the rest of the goalies."

And at the same time you are saying why didn't we trade for Gustavsson...? A guy with a small sample size that was worse than Comrie? This is why you are making no sense. Just all hindsight arguments. Samsonov & Georgiev weren't good. They were below average or bad most of the time. They went to strong defensive teams and surprise put up decent numbers.

> I gave Palat as an example that we could sign or trade such a player for one year, and not for the period that Palat signed. Tarasenko is a great player. Tatar is a good mid 6 forward. Bertuzzi was good. Adams could well have overpaid one of them a little for one year did.

Tarasenko is not a great player lmao. Horrendous defensively. This is what I'm talking about. You act like this is NHL 23 or something. I don't care if they fit with the team. I don't care about how they fit in the lineup. I don't care if it makes sense to add these guys. You might be better off rooting for the Sens at this point. Dorion seems like your ideal GM.

"Adams could well have overpaid one of them a little for one year did." How do you know that? Bertuzzi signed a one year deal with Toronto so he'd sign a one year deal with us? Tarasenko signs a deal with Ottawa to be on their first line? Is he going to be on our first line? Would that be a good idea to have him on our first line? Like just think before you start throwing out names.

I didn't say you specifically. I said a few posters here. Most notably mr. Ace. Who spent all summer complaining about Adams not making any moves and how bad he is & that we were going to be much worse last year. He's been saying the same things you've been saying and just keeps being wrong. You've been liking his posts so I take you agree with it. The opposite of what that crowd wants is usually the right move.

Your argument is to list every player that was a free agent or guy that got traded the last few years and say why didn't we do that. Just completely ignoring all context. It's just incredibly lazy.
 

Yatzhee

Registered User
Aug 5, 2010
8,817
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Of our bottom 4:

Worst - Bryson. Never want to see him play in a Sabres uniform again.

2nd - Joker. Thought he was going to be a steal the first year we had him. All he has done is regress. He has no strength to build around. Addition by subtraction here. There is no reason to see him again.

3rd - Stillman. Still an unknown, and only ranked above Joker because he may have a useful physical defensive game in there somewhere. Still, most NHL defensmen out there are an upgrade, so why not just upgrade with actual talent instead of keeping hypothetical talent.

4th - Boosh. Had an injury plagued season, but should still be a serviceable 3rd pairing, especially if healthy. If you can find better? Do it in a second.

So, if you're trading Boosh, you better be trading Bryson and Joker too. You can do better! So, a competent GM needs to do that.

I am very much hoping we are clearing cap space, and going to send Joker out in a trade bringing in a legit top 4 dman.
I believe there is a deal coming. Whether that's Pesce or maybe Hanifin, who knows. But I don't see the Sabres going in to the season without further addressing the back end. And here is why, Kyven Adam's is entering his 4th season as the Sabres GM, playoffs are a make or break deal for him this season. While adding Clifton and Johnson are moves in the right direction, I don't believe Adam's is going to hang this season on the hopes they pan out, especially Clifton who will almost certainly slot in next to Powers in the 3/4 D line up slot position defensively.

Add in to that the fact it looks like Buffalo is going to run with Levi / UPL/Comrie in net, at least as of now. That combination is going to need a strong D in front of them. However, we need to be mindful Buffalo's explosive offense is reliant on a good d zone to o zone transition game, many times the d is on the rush with their forwards.

When considering these factors, I can't see Adams not making a move for a Pesce, or a Hanifin. He has the cap space and he has the trade capitol to get it done. Just my humble view on the Sabres.
 
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Jacob582

Registered User
Oct 16, 2012
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I think stillman will be the #4 LHD and they're going with Dahlin-Samuelsson-Power down the left.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Granato alluded this.

I feel it's crazy when I see projected lineups with two of our RHD paired together. It may happen some due to injury, but it won't be Granato's plan to start.
 

HOOats

NO DOOM NO GLOOM
Nov 19, 2007
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Not sure why some people aren’t getting this. We had 9 guys on NHL contracts. We’re likely keeping 8. Get an asset for whomever they decided was the odd man out but also had some trade value.

There’s nothing more or less to it.
Some seem to think the team can add and carry endless NHL quality depth, forward or D, so if major injuries strike we always have guys to plug in. Unfortunately this isn't a video game, so balancing roster numbers and managing players' personal expectations still matter.

If we're crippled by four D injuries all at once, we can always use a pick like the one we got here to go get an emergency #7 like Boosh.
 

Chainshot

Give 'em Enough Rope
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Feb 28, 2002
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Some seem to think the team can add and carry endless NHL quality depth, forward or D, so if major injuries strike we always have guys to plug in. Unfortunately this isn't a video game, so balancing roster numbers and managing players' personal expectations still matter.

If we're crippled by four D injuries all at once, we can always use a pick like the one we got here to go get an emergency #7 like Boosh.

Future considerations, mid-to-late round draft picks, and another possibility for a spare body in a pinch - waivers.
 

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