OT: Los Angeles Angels Talk

[Fighter]

Dodgers
SP Stripling: 3 starts, 18.0 innings pitched, 16Ks, 4.00 era
OF Pederson: 11 games, 34 At Bats, 3 HRs, 7 RBIs, 5 BBs, .235 BA
(and a prospect)

Angels
2B Rengifo: games, 25 At Bats, 0 HRs, 1 RBIs, 4 BBs, .160 BA

ugh... oh Arte!!!

This is brutal... but when I recall other moves Arte made, this one looks actually tame in comparison.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

This is brutal... but when I recall other moves Arte made, this one looks actually tame in comparison.

Choosing FA Hamilton over re-signing P Greinke was the worst.

Back in the days where signing a top FA would cost you a 1st round pick, GM Dipoto traded for P Greinke during the 2012 season. It was Greinke for top prospect SS Jean Segura and two AA pitchers, Ariel Pena and John Hellweg. Here's an excerpt from an ESPN article about that trade:

One source with knowledge of Angels general manager Jerry Dipoto's thinking speculated that the Angels might feel they have a good shot at re-signing Greinke this offseason. They will owe him $5.15 million for the remainder of this season.
"I've got to think Jerry thinks he's got a good shot at it," the source said.​

One way to get around losing a first round pick for top talent is to trade for top talent. The previous year, owner Arte Moreno signed top FA Pujols to a 10-year contract and the Angels lost a first round pick. After the 2012 season, I had anticipated on re-signing P Greinke because we gave up some serious capital with SS Segura. Instead, owner Arte flew to FA OF Josh Hamilton and signed him for $125 mil for five years, which also costs the Angels organization a first round pick, a consecutive loss of a first round pick for the second off-season.

Now, let's also add this context from OF Torii Hunter:

I was told money was tight but I guess the Arte had money hidden under a Mattress. Business is business but don't lie.
— Torii Hunter (@toriihunter48) December 13, 2012​

P Greinke signed with the Dodgers for $147 mil for 6 years, or $24.5 mil per year. GM Dipoto wanted the ace pitcher. Owner Moreno wanted slugger Hamilton at $25 mil per year and lose a 1st round pick.

From an asset management, not re-signing P Greinke meant we gave away a future all-star Jean Segura (2013, 2018) for nothing. Also, to add insult to injury, we lost a first round pick by signing OF Hamilton while telling "hula dula" we had no money.

Hamilton's WAR for the Angels (2 seasons) = 2.7 (1.3 in 2013 and 1.4 in 2014)
Hula Dula (Torii) WAR in 2013 with Detroit = 2.6​

In all the time Dipoto was GM of the Angels, he was able to only oversee two first round picks.
2012 = no first round pick (comp for FA 1B Pujols)
2013 = no first round pick (comp for FA OF Hamilton)
2014 = P Sean Newcomb
2015 = C Ward

*Although, I have read that Dipoto wasn't overseeing the 2015 draft because he was at odds with the organization as he officially resigned on July 1, 2015, but the draft took place Jun 8-10th. I'll still put Ward under Dipoto's stead. But here's a kicker, we drafted another catcher, Matt Thaiss, in the 1st round under Eppler the following draft year. ::: raising shoulders :::

It's been about 5 years since GM Dipoto exposed how the Angels organization was not well run as he was fighting with both the owner and manager when he resigned. Yet, Arte continues to meddle. What occurred 5 years ago should have been an organizational changing event, but it didn't change Arte. Arte got his bat again in 3B Rendon, but didn't have the patience to acquire a starting pitcher because the Dodgers were set off course a bit in trying to acquire Betts.

 

[MMC]

I'm pissed as hell that Arte nixed the deal, but we shouldn't pretend it was Pederson and Stripling for Rengifo straight up. It was reported that there were multiple unknown pieces involved as well.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I'm pissed as hell that Arte nixed the deal, but we shouldn't pretend it was Pederson and Stripling for Rengifo straight up. It was reported that there were multiple unknown pieces involved as well.

I recall that Fletcher was part of the deal or so it was rumored that it was.
Fletcher has been more valuable to the Angels this year than Pederson with Fletcher leading the Angels position players in WAR with 0.9 and Sandoval atm is better than Stripling's 4.00 ERA.
Favorite thing about Sandoval is he's from Mission Viejo and he's got the 2nd best K to B ratio in the rotation after Bundy.
Kinda neat having Canning from Rancho Santa Margarita and next door to that city is Sandoval from Mission Viejo and them being born the same year.'
I don't think they've ever had 2 OC kids in the rotation at the same time as well as a total of 3 players from OC on the 25 man roster (Fletcher from Cypress HS)

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I'm pissed as hell that Arte nixed the deal, but we shouldn't pretend it was Pederson and Stripling for Rengifo straight up. It was reported that there were multiple unknown pieces involved as well.

Actually, it was Stripling, Pederson, and a prospect for Rengifo. The fuss was about who that prospect was.

Fletcher wasn't part of it. The Dodgers were trying to get rid of some cash and roster spot because of Betts. Pederson was thrown in because he wasn't going to be an everyday player for them.

Ya gotta stop acting like Moreno. It was a done deal that was held up because of the Betts deal. Arte was impatient.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I recall that Fletcher was part of the deal or so it was rumored that it was.
Fletcher has been more valuable to the Angels this year than Pederson with Fletcher leading the Angels position players in WAR with 0.9 and Sandoval atm is better than Stripling's 4.00 ERA.
Favorite thing about Sandoval is he's from Mission Viejo and he's got the 2nd best K to B ratio in the rotation after Bundy.
Kinda neat having Canning from Rancho Santa Margarita and next door to that city is Sandoval from Mission Viejo and them being born the same year.'
I don't think they've ever had 2 OC kids in the rotation at the same time as well as a total of 3 players from OC on the 25 man roster (Fletcher from Cypress HS)

Nope. Sorry. Never heard any rumors of Fletcher being part of any deal for Stripling and Joc. This is the first time I've ever heard of this. So I won't entertain this falseness. LoL

Here is an article/blog from beyond the box score website: link

Dodgers send: P Stripling, OF Pederson, and prospect OF Pages

Angels send: 2B Rengifo and a low level prospect


Here's one from a Dodgers blog site: link

They reiterate the same trade from above. Fletcher isn't a prospect, let alone a low level prospect.

 

[Fighter]

The Hamilton fiasco was exactly what I was referring. Signing Vernon Wells was another "good" one...

 

[duxfan1101]

The Hamilton fiasco was exactly what I was referring. Signing Vernon Wells was another "good" one...

We actually traded for Wells. Not that it makes it much better.

 

[Fighter]

We actually traded for Wells. Not that it makes it much better.

Thanks for reminding me Arte is, if possible, a tad worse. Missing Beltre and trading for Wells on an albatross contract. Brrr....

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Ted pitched another great game. Finally living up to being drafted 4th overall by the Orioles in 2011.
The Angels have a pitcher with the last name Bundy, the Ducks have Dman with the last name Manson.

 

[Bender66]

Is it just me or does it seem like Justin Upton needs glasses ... because it seems like he cannot see the ball ... His bat speed through the zone also looks like it's in slow motion. Too many quarantine doughnuts for him ...

 

[AngelDuck]

Rendon is a stud. You can just tell by his approach at the plate. Still a huge fan of that contract

Upton and Pujols need to go. The rest of the offense is pretty good. That first 5 of Fletcher-LaStella-Trout-Rendon-Ohtani is as good as any in baseball. Also it’s nice having a catching tandem that isn’t totally worthless at the place

Pitching has been better so far this year but I’m still extremely skeptical. We need relievers and a dominant ace

 

[duxfan1101]

Rendon is a stud. You can just tell by his approach at the plate. Still a huge fan of that contract

Upton and Pujols need to go. The rest of the offense is pretty good. That first 5 of Fletcher-LaStella-Trout-Rendon-Ohtani is as good as any in baseball. Also it’s nice having a catching tandem that isn’t totally worthless at the place

Pitching has been better so far this year but I’m still extremely skeptical. We need relievers and a dominant ace

Max Stassi looks like a totally different hitter this year. I'm not kidding when I say he looked like the worst hitting position player I had ever seen last season. I'm not sure he hit a ball further than 300ft after we acquired him.

 

[Bender66]

Max Stassi looks like a totally different hitter this year. I'm not kidding when I say he looked like the worst hitting position player I had ever seen last season. I'm not sure he hit a ball further than 300ft after we acquired him.

TV guys said he had hip surgery or something like that in offseason. I imagine its hard to generate any power in your swing if you can't rotate your hips properly.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I'm glad Rendon started heating up because his BA was at .100, but he got on the base a lot with walks. Finally, it's translating!

Right now, Bundy has had two great outings and our default ace. There's article out there as to why Bundy is better this year, which is he's using his secondary pitches more and laying off the fast balls. Two consecutive wins, one a shootout where our bull pen did just enough and Trout hitting two HRs; the other being a Bundy Bonanza!

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Pujols batting #6 instead of Goodwin = the Athletics pitching around Ohtani to pitch to Pujols who swings away on a pitch out of the zone and then strikes out on the next pitch.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Patrick Sandoval has been a wonderful surprise. Angels acquired Sandoval in exchange for Maldonado in trade with Astros. OC kid too, must be pumped to play for his favorite team.

 

[AngelDuck]

They f***ed up the first 15 or so games (losing to bad teams). And it’s going to cost them. They’re better than years past but you ain’t digging out of this hole against the better teams probably. Especially in a shortened season

unfortunate.

Eppler has a lot of work to do with that trash pitching in the offseason

 

[KaseMeOutside]

This is brutal... but when I recall other moves Arte made, this one looks actually tame in comparison.

Arte is a horrible owner when it comes to letting the baseball ops do their job there's no question they would be alot better with that trade

 

[Hockey Duckie]

They f***ed up the first 15 or so games (losing to bad teams). And it’s going to cost them. They’re better than years past but you ain’t digging out of this hole against the better teams probably. Especially in a shortened season

unfortunate.

Eppler has a lot of work to do with that trash pitching in the offseason

Wait... what? So Eppler needs to fix the pitching going into this sixth season with the Angels? That's kinda scary to say out loud.

 

[AngelDuck]

Wait... what? So Eppler needs to fix the pitching going into this sixth season with the Angels? That's kinda scary to say out loud.

Yeah you heard me

 

[Static]

Skaggs, ohtani, and striping would have helped a ton. Eppler has had some awful luck here as well.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Yeah you heard me

I hear it, but it doesn't make sense to start working on pitching after the sixth year. Arte will probably keep Eppler because Eppler is implementing what Arte likes... slugging over pitching.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Skaggs, ohtani, and striping would have helped a ton. Eppler has had some awful luck here as well.

Eppler could have had other avenues for the past five off-seasons, including the MLB draft, to develop a solid pitching staff.

I guess Dipoto had awful luck with Arte taking away consecutive 1st round picks as well as losing future star prospect SS Segura for not re-signing ace pitcher Greinke. In today's MLB, teams won't lose a 1st round pick if they sign a high profile FA like when the Angels signed 3B Rendon this past off-season. It only cost them a 2nd round pick. Yet, Dipoto's club went over .500 three times as well as went to playoffs under Dipoto.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Since MLB has fewer playoff teams, reaching above .500 isn't as important if they aren't in the playoffs in some way or another. To me missing the playoffs no matter how good or bad the team looked is the same, more frustrating if you miss the playoffs by just a few wins.

In 2006 the Angels looked like a playoff team but missed the playoffs and i was more frustrated by that season than the recent Angels seasons, Bartolo Colon & Jeff Weaver pitched so terribly bad in April they lost games they would have won had Jered Weaver pitched instead of his reject brother & Saunders instead of Bartolo Colon, The Angels would have kicked Detroits butt & likely defeated the 83 win Cardinals team in the WS, worst team to the ever win the WS was the 2006 Cardinals. Lackey/Escobar/Weaver/Santana would have gone very far in the 2006 playoffs and the 2006 bullpen was elite with prime Krod, Shields, Donnelly. RookieWeaver actually touched 95 mph on the radar gun in a game, 10 years later he couldn't throw 85.

The Angels never accepted that their window was over after the 2009 playoffs and instead of rebuilding the team Arte Moreno went Al Davis on the franchise. They should have gone all in between 2006 to 2008 but they failed to trade for Halladay, Miggy Cabrera etc when Brandon Wood & Sean Rodriquez had value as elite prospects. The Tigers package for Cabrera was garbage & they could have sent Brandon, Mathis and Kendrick to Miami for Cabrera. The Angels actually had street credit back then as one of the best farm systems from like 2004 to 2008 or so.

Angels rebuild should have started in 2010 offseason, instead of signing all those pricy FAs they could have invested in drafting players and signing international FAs before the spending cap on international players was implemented. Arte Moreno gutted some of the scouting staff & reduced the international presence of the Angels. So if they rebuilt between 2010 to around 2016 they could have given Trout alot of playoff appearences. 2014 playoffs for the Angels was lightning in the bottle as Texas Rangers lost most of their talented players to season ending injuries and the Angels won a massively weak division and then got bounced by the Royals in the first round.

Getting over .500 in the NHL is good because you can get into the playoffs like 2006 8th seed Oilers who went to the Finals or the 2012 8th seed Kings who won the cup.
Getting to just a little over .500 in MLB just means you get to pick middle of the pack in each round of the following draft.

I get the feeling now that Arte Moreno doesn't care anymore, he'll eventually fire Eppler because he'll get impatient and go back to 'Win Baby Win !' aka Al Davis mode & start making whoever is in charge to spend like crazy.