OT: Los Angeles Angels Talk

duxfan1101

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Dipoto left Eppler with a winning program
This right here is where you lose me. I'm not sure how you can argue that the failure of the 2016 team was all Eppler's fault in his first year as GM when it is obvious that the heavy majority of the MLB team and farm system was created by Dipoto. In my eyes, it was clear that Dipoto had gotten the roster to their peak, and the downfall was inevitable with the way it was constructed. Dipoto squeezed what he could out of the farm system and MLB roster, but it wasn't enough, and it set us up poorly in the long run. He played a risky game (which isn't always a bad thing), and it backfired. And yes, Moreno has made things tougher for both GMs to get things done.

With that being said, I would have hoped that Eppler would have been able to turn it around by now, but that obviously hasn't happened, and he deserves blame for that.
 

Anaheim4ever

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This right here is where you lose me. I'm not sure how you can argue that the failure of the 2016 team was all Eppler's fault in his first year as GM when it is obvious that the heavy majority of the MLB team and farm system was created by Dipoto. In my eyes, it was clear that Dipoto had gotten the roster to their peak, and the downfall was inevitable with the way it was constructed. Dipoto squeezed what he could out of the farm system and MLB roster, but it wasn't enough, and it set us up poorly in the long run. He played a risky game (which isn't always a bad thing), and it backfired. And yes, Moreno has made things tougher for both GMs to get things done.

With that being said, I would have hoped that Eppler would have been able to turn it around by now, but that obviously hasn't happened, and he deserves blame for that.
The Angels under Dipoto were run like Minnesota Wild, several players under huge contracts, bad player drafting/scouting and the difference is the Wild as a mediocre team can make the playoffs while mediocre in MLB is missing the playoffs completely. Both teams didn't suck enough to draft top5.

What i hate about Eppler is he doesn't draft enough pitching, MLB draft prospects are like throwing darts, The BPA is marginable at a certain point, only like the top 5 are clearly set as being the choice to go #1 overall unless its a special draft year like when Harper went #1 & Strasburg #1. Most of the time the Angels could have drafted pitching as BPA in the draft considering their draft position has been around 10 to 18 where BPA is marginable difference that you can draft on need while only taking a player 2 to 4 spots higher on the teams prospect ranking and its still like a dart throw.
 

Hockey Duckie

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This right here is where you lose me. I'm not sure how you can argue that the failure of the 2016 team was all Eppler's fault in his first year as GM when it is obvious that the heavy majority of the MLB team and farm system was created by Dipoto. In my eyes, it was clear that Dipoto had gotten the roster to their peak, and the downfall was inevitable with the way it was constructed. Dipoto squeezed what he could out of the farm system and MLB roster, but it wasn't enough, and it set us up poorly in the long run. He played a risky game (which isn't always a bad thing), and it backfired. And yes, Moreno has made things tougher for both GMs to get things done.

With that being said, I would have hoped that Eppler would have been able to turn it around by now, but that obviously hasn't happened, and he deserves blame for that.

Dipoto inherited a team that already had a bad farm system. Dipoto navigated the team after Arte supplanted his stamp on the team by signing OF Hamilton over P Greinke, all the while losing a 1st round pick. Dipoto traded away positional players for pitchers.

July 2012: Dipoto traded SS Jean Segura, RHP Ariel Pena, and RHP Johnny Hellweg for P Greinke (only that season, not re-signed... Arte chose Hambone instead)
July 2013: Dipoto traded LHP Downs for RHP Cory Rasmus (2013 - 2016)
Nov 2013: Dipoto signed FA middle relief P Joe Smith (2014 - mid 2016, traded away)
Nov 2013: Dipoto traded OF Bourjos and OF Grichuk for 3B Freese and RHP Fernando Salas (2014-mid 2016, traded away)
Dec 2013: Dipoto traded OF Trumbo for LHP Skaggs and LHP Hector Santiago (2014 - mid 2016, traded away).
Mar 2014: Dipoto traded SS Romine for bullpen LHP Jose Alvarez (2014-2018).
July 2014: Dipoto traded 2B Taylor Lindsey, RHP R.J. Alvarez, SS Jose Rondon and RHP Elliot Morris for RHP Huston Street (2014 - 2017) and RHP Trevor Gott.
Nov 2014: Dipoto traded C Hank Conger for RHP Nick Tropeano (2015-2019)
Dec 2014: Dipoto traded 2B Howie Kendrick for RHP Andrew Heaney (2015- present)

I dunno how I lose you when the team went to the playoffs in 2014 and missed the playoffs by one game in 2015. Dipoto had set up Eppler with pitching talent going forward. How was Dipoto able to manage three above .500 seasons in his short tenure and Eppler has failed to do so in four plus seasons? Eppler took a different direction from Dipoto. Pitching wasn't a thing for Eppler. Look at all those pitchers that Dipoto had traded for, which gives you his philosophy. Delivered a 1-2 closing punch with setup man Joe Smith and closer Street within that same 2014 season.

How Dipoto was able to keep afloat is something that Eppler doesn't have in his repertoire. Remember, they're playing under a meddling owner. Yet, Eppler didn't address the pitching because he was living off of what Dipoto had set up long term. And that's what you fail to acknowledge.

This is like GM Bob Murray populating the Ducks blue line with veterans to stem the necessity to push the defensive prospects. Bob saved about two seasons or more, depending on who's re-signed. You can win with defense and sneak into the playoffs like we did in 2017. Similarly, Dipoto used pitching as his defense. Apparently, it worked.

Don't look now, but Dipoto's Mariners have a better record than the Angels today. The Mariners are rebuilding and Eppler's continued philosophy of collecting shiny position players while still neglecting the pitching. It really is a shame.
 
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duxfan1101

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Dipoto inherited a team that already had a bad farm system. Dipoto navigated the team after Arte supplanted his stamp on the team by signing OF Hamilton over P Greinke, all the while losing a 1st round pick. Dipoto traded away positional players for pitchers.

July 2012: Dipoto traded SS Jean Segura, RHP Ariel Pena, and RHP Johnny Hellweg for P Greinke (only that season, not re-signed... Arte chose Hambone instead)
July 2013: Dipoto traded LHP Downs for RHP Cory Rasmus (2013 - 2016)
Nov 2013: Dipoto signed FA middle relief P Joe Smith (2014 - mid 2016, traded away)
Nov 2013: Dipoto traded OF Bourjos and OF Grichuk for 3B Freese and RHP Fernando Salas (2014-mid 2016, traded away)
Dec 2013: Dipoto traded OF Trumbo for LHP Skaggs and LHP Hector Santiago (2014 - mid 2016, traded away).
Mar 2014: Dipoto traded SS Romine for bullpen LHP Jose Alvarez (2014-2018).
July 2014: Dipoto traded 2B Taylor Lindsey, RHP R.J. Alvarez, SS Jose Rondon and RHP Elliot Morris for RHP Huston Street (2014 - 2017) and RHP Trevor Gott.
Nov 2014: Dipoto traded C Hank Conger for RHP Nick Tropeano (2015-2019)
Dec 2014: Dipoto traded 2B Howie Kendrick for RHP Andrew Heaney (2015- present)

I dunno how I lose you when the team went to the playoffs in 2014 and missed the playoffs by one game in 2015. Dipoto had set up Eppler with pitching talent going forward. How was Dipoto able to manage three above .500 seasons in his short tenure and Eppler has failed to do so in four plus seasons? Eppler took a different direction from Dipoto. Pitching wasn't a thing for Eppler. Look at all those pitchers that Dipoto had traded for, which gives you his philosophy. Delivered a 1-2 closing punch with setup man Joe Smith and closer Street within that same 2014 season.

How Dipoto was able to keep afloat is something that Eppler doesn't have in his repertoire. Remember, they're playing under a meddling owner. Yet, Eppler didn't address the pitching because he was living off of what Dipoto had set up long term. And that's what you fail to acknowledge.

This is like GM Bob Murray populating the Ducks blue line with veterans to stem the necessity to push the defensive prospects. Bob saved about two seasons or more, depending on who's re-signed. You can win with defense and sneak into the playoffs like we did in 2017. Similarly, Dipoto used pitching as his defense. Apparently, it worked.

Don't look now, but Dipoto's Mariners have a better record than the Angels today. The Mariners are rebuilding and Eppler's continued philosophy of collecting shiny position players while still neglecting the pitching. It really is a shame.
Even with that wall of text, you still didn't bother to explain how the Angels record plummeted during Eppler's first year as GM. All I'm saying is that the downfall was inevitable, regardless of who was GM. I am absolutely not saying that Eppler has done a great job. But do you think that Eppler single-handedly caused the drop in record from 2015 to 2016? I'm saying that Dipoto's moves made that drop unavoidable. The starting pitching was already in serious decline. Weaver's last year as a halfway competent pitcher was 2015. 2015 was also CJ Wilson's last season in the MLB. Hector Santiago hasn't been as good as he was in 2015, and neither has Matt Shoemaker. Heaney and Skaggs routinely took turns on the Injured List since they were acquired. Huston Street declined sharply, too.

All of those examples just prove my point that, sure, when they were acquired, they helped the ball club. But they had mostly passed their expiration date as quality pitchers, and we were stuck with them.
 

Hockey Duckie

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Even with that wall of text, you still didn't bother to explain how the Angels record plummeted during Eppler's first year as GM. All I'm saying is that the downfall was inevitable, regardless of who was GM. I am absolutely not saying that Eppler has done a great job. But do you think that Eppler single-handedly caused the drop in record from 2015 to 2016? I'm saying that Dipoto's moves made that drop unavoidable. The starting pitching was already in serious decline. Weaver's last year as a halfway competent pitcher was 2015. 2015 was also CJ Wilson's last season in the MLB. Hector Santiago hasn't been as good as he was in 2015, and neither has Matt Shoemaker. Heaney and Skaggs routinely took turns on the Injured List since they were acquired. Huston Street declined sharply, too.

All of those examples just prove my point that, sure, when they were acquired, they helped the ball club. But they had mostly passed their expiration date as quality pitchers, and we were stuck with them.


smh... I did point out why the Angels record plummeted.

Eppler brought in a change in philosophy. It really is that simply.

What point do you have? You did NO RESEARCH. I did. I shared that info. You're living off of my work and drawing your own confirmation bias. Skaggs and Heaney were here last year, and if not for the overdose, Skaggs would still be here. What type of mental Olympics are you doing? It would be Heaney, Skaggs, Ohtani, Canning, Bundy, and Teheran 6-man rotation. I'm baffled at the ignorance of pitching talent just to absolve Eppler?

Dipoto knew the pitching was in decline. That's why he traded for P Greinke and in hopes of keeping the ace pitcher. Did you forget that or are you trying to shill for Eppler still? Also, that's why I shared all those trades in order to acquire pitching help. I don't know what you're expecting when the owner hamstrung the GM with two albatross contracts in 1B Pujols and OF Hamilton while losing two consecutive 1st round picks (which no longer is implemented today as you lose your 2nd round pick instead with newer rules, otherwise we would have lost a 1st for 3B Rendon), while nixing a contract to an actual ace pitcher? But the philosophy is there, "Get more pitchers." SP Skaggs, SP Heaney, SP Tropeano, RP Alvarez, and RP Gott are youths. SP Salas and SP Santiago are good bridge #3-6 type pitchers (wow, imagine that, middle of the road talents). RP Smith and RP Street are veteran closers. Dipoto's first draft had him selecting a pitcher in the first round in Sean Newcomb.

We traded away veterans OF/1B Trumbo (for pitchers Skaggs and Santiago) and 2B Kendrick (for P Heaney).

Eppler went away from that philosophy of trying to address pitching to get hitting, which is what owner Arte Moreno loves and continues to love!

Since you're too lazy to do any research on your own, did you know when the Angels traded away C Conger that we got P Tropeano and C Carlos Perez? Why do I bring up Perez? Simple, let's look at the Angels catchers for 2016:
Jett Bandy
Carlos Perez
Juan Graterol
Geovany Soto​

That's Perez' first year in the majors. Bandy, Perez, and Graterol were all seeing the MLB for their first time (Bandy and 2 games in 2015). Soto was on his last leg.

Who did Eppler try not to re-sign? C Chris Ianetta. While his offense isn't there, his pitch framing and knowledge were highly valuable to Dipoto and pitching. So much so that Dipoto snatched him right up for that season.

Mariners record in 2015 (pre-Dipoto): 76-86 (.469); Runs = 656; Runs Allowed = 726; Run Diff = - 70 runs
Mariners record in 2016 (with Dipoto): 86-76 (.531); Runs = 768; Runs Allowed = 707; Run Diff = + 61 runs (Missed the playoffs by 3 games and better record than Yankees.)​

Eppler's first year as Angels GM:

Nov 2015: Eppler trades SS Aybar, P Newcomb (2014 1st round pick), P Chris Ellis, and cash for SS Simmons and C Briceno
Dec 2015: Eppler trades P Michael Brady and P Trevor Gott for 3B Escobar and cash​

That's four pitchers for three positional players. I just want to focus on the philosophy change, which you still cannot fathom as the reason for the drop! The deal for SS Simmons was a good deal for the Angels as we got younger as SS with a far superior defensive player than Aybar, but then you're missing the point about changing philosophies.

I was all on-board with Eppler for the first two and a half seasons because why not give him a chance? Only within reflection (from another poster from an Angels baseball message forum) did give way to warranted scrutiny.

You may make fun of my "wall of text", but all you're responding with false generalizations with no substance. You are incapable of accepting the change in GM also caused the change in the record. That's what you're simply not accepting to be fact when it is fact.

Record of .500 seasons for Angels
Dipoto: 3 out of 4 (1 playoff appearance)
Eppler: 0 out of 5 (including 2020 season where the Angels are 10-22, or .311 pct record)​

One of these GMs knows how to win while being hamstrung with a meddling owner.

Your cognitive dissonance is showing.

You wrote: "The starting pitching was already in serious decline. Weaver's last year as a halfway competent pitcher was 2015. 2015 was also CJ Wilson's last season in the MLB. Hector Santiago hasn't been as good as he was in 2015, and neither has Matt Shoemaker. Heaney and Skaggs routinely took turns on the Injured List since they were acquired. Huston Street declined sharply, too."

This is sad. You cite Weaver and Wilson's decline, but are completely oblivious to all the transactions Dipoto has made to acquire pitching. Apparently, Dipoto also knew about the decline in Weaver and Wilson, which is why he went out and traded for ace P Greinke in 2012! ::: mind blowning ::: Dipoto worked around not losing a 1st round pick in acquiring an ace pitcher, but owner Arte decided not to retain the ace's services and go with slugging OF Hamilton as well as lose a 1st round pick! That's devastating because we traded away a future all-star in prospect SS Segura.

While you list all the bad narrative (show me specifically, don't give me a narrative because of sheer laziness), Dipoto had a winning record and Eppler took a nose dive. Eppler is still taking a nose dive. Are you admitting that Eppler doesn't know how to scout his own players and predict how things might become? Because it seems as though you're identifying this during the Eppler era and not the Dipoto era.

Let's reiterate facts again.

Record of .500 seasons for Angels
Dipoto: 3 out of 4 (1 playoff appearance)
Eppler: 0 out of 5 (including 2020 season where the Angels are 10-22, or .311 pct record)​

With the Mariners, Dipoto is given full reign. He told his owners that the current organization's makeup still doesn't possess enough to become a playoff team against the current and near future of the organizations in the AL. So he purged the Mariners of the collection of highly talented players to change the direction of the Mariners after the 2018 season. The Mariners currently have a better record now than the Angels.

Mariners: 12 - 19, RS = 132, RA = 165, Rdiff = -33
Angels: 10 - 22, RS = 150, RA = 184, Rdiff = -34​

The Mariners also have a top-5/top-10 farm system. It may get better after the trade deadline.

The point of adding this bit of information is to give you a bigger scope. Dipoto knows how to GM. Did you know that Dipoto fleeced us when he was a (interim) GM in Arizona?

July 2010: Dipoto traded P Dan Haren for LHP Joe Saunders along with pitching prospects of LHP Patrick Corbin, RHP Rafeal Rodriguez, and LHP Tyler Skaggs.​

Yes, the same Skaggs.

The change in philosophy went from pitching-centric to hitting-centric between Dipoto and Eppler. This is evidently seen in the Runs Allowed data. I don't comprehend why you don't accept that fact since it's part of substantiated history.

Runs Allowed under 700 for the Angels
Dipoto = 3 out of 4 seasons
Eppler = 0 out of 4 seasons (probably 0 out of 5 when doing proportions of a 60 game season to 162 game season, projected 931 runs allowed)​

I thought it was just simple to show this, but, apparently, you're disputing historical facts that appears quite obvious. I guess it's easier to do when you don't do research to substantiate your narrative. I'll say this again, I was on-board the Eppler train when we signed him and for the first two and half seasons. I wasn't happy with being sub .500 and that's when you notice the pattern. It has continued today. Eppler works well in an environment like NY Yankees, who will overspend to get players. Eppler can get talented positional players as well as talented pitchers in that NY Yankees environment. Eppler is inadequate when dealing with an owner like Arte Moreno who's meddling, but also imposes a budget. Dipoto did make it work under Arte, but was bold enough to point out the organization is being run terribly. It's easy to compare and contrast now with 8 1/2 years of information. Well, I thought it was easy.
 

Anaheim4ever

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How does Adell look ? I see he had another strikeout hat trick game......very Brandon Wood-ish.
 

ADHB

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How does Adell look ? I see he had another strikeout hat trick game......very Brandon Wood-ish.
Not ready, which isn't really surprising considering he's played like 20 games above A ball in his career, and just turned 21. The lack of minor leagues has really hurt. He would have started out in AA, then likely moved up to AAA if he had success, and been in line for a September callup. Now he's having to develop at the major league level. Not ideal.
 

jiggsawpuzzle35

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Wouldn’t mind if the Angels finished the season dead last. Rocker and Leiter from Vanderbilt are predicted to go 1 and 2 and their both pitchers. Trading Bundy would at least help this team suck even harder.
 
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Anaheim4ever

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Keep Fletcher. Angels don't have anyone worth replacing him with. Rengifo can't hit anything.

With Bundy how do we know he doesn't revert to sucking after hitters adjust to his new pitching. Could sell high and get some high end pitching prospects.
 
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Hockey Duckie

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Keep Fletcher. Angels don't have anyone worth replacing him with. Rengifo can't hit anything.

With Bundy how do we know he doesn't revert to sucking after hitters adjust to his new pitching. Could sell high and get some high end pitching prospects.

Bundy represents two different paths for the Angels. You could sell Bundy high, but you set the franchise back in the pitching department. Which implies we're wasting more of Trout's prime years. If you keep Bundy, then we can add more talent to keep us in a conversation.

Can Bundy keep up this new pitching style? I think fangraphs projected if Bundy uses more of his non-fast ball pitches, then he would improve as a pitcher. That's what Bundy has done this year. At the very least, Bundy is a solid 4-5 MLB inning eating pitcher. With the current construct of the Angels, we're going to have to rely on our hitters to outscore the opposition in a shootout, but we need pitchers that can last 6 innings at a minimum.

IMO, Bundy is far more valuable to us under the context that we want to be relevant today, not far off tomorrow. With Trout, age 29, and Rendon, age 30, already in the mix long term, the team isn't in a position to wait around another three to five years for young pitchers to develop into MLB pitchers. Sad, but true. While it would be amazing if the Angels landed a true ace, I'd settle for six to seven #3-5 MLB pitching talent right now and invest in FA known setup guys and a closer. Canning, Bundy, and Heany are #3-5 guys with the ability to be #2 - especially with Bundy's new pitching philosophy. Ohtani is the ace pitcher, but we really don't know what we have. Ohtani may bounce back in year 2 of his TJ recovery, which seems like a pattern for most pitchers. Even then, he may not return as the ace he was in his rookie season.

I don't know how far off 2020 1st round draft pick LHP Reid Detmers is from the MLB, but I'm thinking maybe two to three years. Griffin Canning was also a college pitcher when we drafted him in 2017 (originally drafted by the Rockies in 2015 in the 38th round) and got a long call up in 2019 at the MLB level. Canning is still being tuned this season. That's three years and we still don't truly know what we have with Canning because consistency matters. Canning's got high upside, though!

Long term planning is amiss with the construct of this team in regards to pitching. Using Canning as the template for college pitchers, we see it takes about three years to be part of an MLB rotation for a pitching starved team. We passed up four pitchers in the 2019 MLB draft.

15th, LAA: SS Will Wilson
16th, Ari: OF Corbin Carroll
17th, Was: P Jackson Rutledge
18th, Pit: P Quinn Priester
19th, StL: P Zack Thompson
20th, Sea: P George Kirby​

We traded off SS Will Wilson to help shed salary in a trade. But I digress...

If we trade Bundy, then I say just tear the whole roster down because we're not serious in building a contender. If we're going to be losing, then give us the hope of tomorrow like the Mariners.
 

mightyquack

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Buy or sell Bundy or Fletcher?
I'd tear my hair out if we traded either of them. Trading either of them is a pretty clear sign they don't plan to even attempt to compete for the next 3+ years, in which case they might as well have just traded Trout for a huge haul instead of re-signing him.

Bundy is looking like a solid pitcher on a team that has very few and Fletcher is such an important bat at the top of the order, I'd argue he's the 3rd best bat on the team especially with how much he gets on base.
 

Deuce22

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Bundy represents two different paths for the Angels. You could sell Bundy high, but you set the franchise back in the pitching department. Which implies we're wasting more of Trout's prime years. If you keep Bundy, then we can add more talent to keep us in a conversation.

Can Bundy keep up this new pitching style? I think fangraphs projected if Bundy uses more of his non-fast ball pitches, then he would improve as a pitcher. That's what Bundy has done this year. At the very least, Bundy is a solid 4-5 MLB inning eating pitcher. With the current construct of the Angels, we're going to have to rely on our hitters to outscore the opposition in a shootout, but we need pitchers that can last 6 innings at a minimum.

IMO, Bundy is far more valuable to us under the context that we want to be relevant today, not far off tomorrow. With Trout, age 29, and Rendon, age 30, already in the mix long term, the team isn't in a position to wait around another three to five years for young pitchers to develop into MLB pitchers. Sad, but true. While it would be amazing if the Angels landed a true ace, I'd settle for six to seven #3-5 MLB pitching talent right now and invest in FA known setup guys and a closer. Canning, Bundy, and Heany are #3-5 guys with the ability to be #2 - especially with Bundy's new pitching philosophy. Ohtani is the ace pitcher, but we really don't know what we have. Ohtani may bounce back in year 2 of his TJ recovery, which seems like a pattern for most pitchers. Even then, he may not return as the ace he was in his rookie season.

I don't know how far off 2020 1st round draft pick LHP Reid Detmers is from the MLB, but I'm thinking maybe two to three years. Griffin Canning was also a college pitcher when we drafted him in 2017 (originally drafted by the Rockies in 2015 in the 38th round) and got a long call up in 2019 at the MLB level. Canning is still being tuned this season. That's three years and we still don't truly know what we have with Canning because consistency matters. Canning's got high upside, though!

Long term planning is amiss with the construct of this team in regards to pitching. Using Canning as the template for college pitchers, we see it takes about three years to be part of an MLB rotation for a pitching starved team. We passed up four pitchers in the 2019 MLB draft.

15th, LAA: SS Will Wilson
16th, Ari: OF Corbin Carroll
17th, Was: P Jackson Rutledge
18th, Pit: P Quinn Priester
19th, StL: P Zack Thompson
20th, Sea: P George Kirby​

We traded off SS Will Wilson to help shed salary in a trade. But I digress...

If we trade Bundy, then I say just tear the whole roster down because we're not serious in building a contender. If we're going to be losing, then give us the hope of tomorrow like the Mariners.
Tough to tear the whole roster down with the money invested in Trout, Rendon, Upton, and Pujols. I don't think you want to trade Trout or Rendon, and Upton and Pujols are untradable.
 
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Anaheim4ever

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Buzz: Will Clevinger, Lynn or Bundy move?
Angels could be moving both Bundy and Simmons. That would signal they are tearing it up and rebuilding the rebuild.
Trading away La Stella and possibly Bundy and Simmons is a tear down. Castro i get because he sucked.
Have also heard that they might move Goodwin as well. So get ready for an OF of Upton/Trout/Adell.

If all these moves happens it may mean that Eppler is told he's gonna be let go and to start the rebuild process for the next GM.
An infield with both Rengifo and Barretto is gonna be embarrassing to watch.
 

ADHB

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Buzz: Will Clevinger, Lynn or Bundy move?
Angels could be moving both Bundy and Simmons. That would signal they are tearing it up and rebuilding the rebuild.
Trading away La Stella and possibly Bundy and Simmons is a tear down. Castro i get because he sucked.
Have also heard that they might move Goodwin as well. So get ready for an OF of Upton/Trout/Adell.

If all these moves happens it may mean that Eppler is told he's gonna be let go and to start the rebuild process for the next GM.
An infield with both Rengifo and Barretto is gonna be embarrassing to watch.
I don’t see how it would be a total tear down, minus Bundy. La Stella/Simmons/Castro are all free agents at the end of the season. The team is out of it. They would get next to no value out of them playing here another 20 games. It doesn’t seem like any of them were likely to be extended. But if for some reason you have a change of heart, you can always re-sign any of them in the offseason.
 
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KickHisAssZegrass

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I don't think Fletcher was ever seriously discussed, glad they kept Bundy, It's not easy to find stable starters without overspending.

Would of liked to see what they could get for Simmons, think he regresses and wont be worth his next contract.

Hoping Baretta get's a shot to start, he has the speed/power to be a legit 20/20 guy. Like what I've seen from him in the field as well.

Goody just got moved... wonder if Brandon Marsh is gonna get a shot. He looked great in AA last season, definitely more polished than Adell
 
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Hockey Duckie

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Tough to tear the whole roster down with the money invested in Trout, Rendon, Upton, and Pujols. I don't think you want to trade Trout or Rendon, and Upton and Pujols are untradable.

The Mariners did a fire sale a couple of years ago. So it's possible to get rid of top end talent with monies involved. I don't think owner Arte Moreno would buy into that because either Trout is traded away for Trout would be unhappy internally. Moreno is content with this shell game of looking competitive while not being competitive. As long as he's got a part to meddle with baseball operations, the Angels will be stuck in perpetual purgatory.

Don't look now, but former Angel GM Dipoto just boosted the Mariner's farm team with his latest trade. He traded C Nola, RHP relief pitcher Adams (still recovering from torn ACL), and RHP Altavilla for top OF prospect Trammell, INF France (hit .399 in AAA last year), C Torrens, and RHP Munoz (recovering from TJ surgery, but average 99.9 mph on his fast ball). San Diego overpaid to get Nola as they're going all in this year.

As for Upton and Pujols, agreed that they are untradable due to their monies tied up and Moreno wouldn't swallow his pride. Moreno scored huge fiscally by signing Pujols as the piece to push Fox Sports to give him a $3 billion, 20-year tv contract. Pujols costs only $254 mil for 10 years. I'll give him a pass for that move because I thought it would make Arte keep the Angels in Anaheim. But his meddlesome and agenda to constantly look for hitters is a huge detriment to the organization and Trout.

Owner Moreno could easily make the Angels contenders in a hurry post-Dipoto if he would be willing to go over the salary cap and pay for the tax on it. That's what Eppler is used to in NY. Unfortunately, Moreno loves to put the team on a budget despite already making out like a bandit on that Fox Sports deal. We were in no position to screw over grabbing P Stripling, OF Pederson, and prospect OF Pages for Regnifo and a lower end prospect. If Pederson would have went off with the Angels due to more playing time, we could have used him in a trade as well for the trade deadline.

Hopefully, people can now admit that Dipoto wanted to retain P Greinke, but Moreno wanted the slugging OF Hamilton while also costing a 1st round pick to the team.
 

Deuce22

Registered User
Jun 17, 2013
5,511
7,469
SoCal & Idaho
The Mariners did a fire sale a couple of years ago. So it's possible to get rid of top end talent with monies involved. I don't think owner Arte Moreno would buy into that because either Trout is traded away for Trout would be unhappy internally. Moreno is content with this shell game of looking competitive while not being competitive. As long as he's got a part to meddle with baseball operations, the Angels will be stuck in perpetual purgatory.

Don't look now, but former Angel GM Dipoto just boosted the Mariner's farm team with his latest trade. He traded C Nola, RHP relief pitcher Adams (still recovering from torn ACL), and RHP Altavilla for top OF prospect Trammell, INF France (hit .399 in AAA last year), C Torrens, and RHP Munoz (recovering from TJ surgery, but average 99.9 mph on his fast ball). San Diego overpaid to get Nola as they're going all in this year.

As for Upton and Pujols, agreed that they are untradable due to their monies tied up and Moreno wouldn't swallow his pride. Moreno scored huge fiscally by signing Pujols as the piece to push Fox Sports to give him a $3 billion, 20-year tv contract. Pujols costs only $254 mil for 10 years. I'll give him a pass for that move because I thought it would make Arte keep the Angels in Anaheim. But his meddlesome and agenda to constantly look for hitters is a huge detriment to the organization and Trout.

Owner Moreno could easily make the Angels contenders in a hurry post-Dipoto if he would be willing to go over the salary cap and pay for the tax on it. That's what Eppler is used to in NY. Unfortunately, Moreno loves to put the team on a budget despite already making out like a bandit on that Fox Sports deal. We were in no position to screw over grabbing P Stripling, OF Pederson, and prospect OF Pages for Regnifo and a lower end prospect. If Pederson would have went off with the Angels due to more playing time, we could have used him in a trade as well for the trade deadline.

Hopefully, people can now admit that Dipoto wanted to retain P Greinke, but Moreno wanted the slugging OF Hamilton while also costing a 1st round pick to the team.
Agree that Angels could become a contender, they are dealing from strength with a core of Trout, Rendon, and Ohtani. But Arte would have to swallow his pride and get out of the way, letting the GM do his job. I don't think it helped bringing in LaRussa to look over Eppler's shoulder, either.
 
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Anaheim4ever

Registered User
Jun 15, 2017
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I would imagine Arte wants to see a winner before he passes away, isn't he in his late 70s or early 80s ? He might get impatient on a rebuild or want to change the guy running the rebuild.
 

Anaheim4ever

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Jun 15, 2017
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Robles got charged with 3 earned runs while not even recording an out, he walked 3 batters in a row. Time to DFA that bum.
13.09 ERA thru 11 innings.
This team went from a team with a deep lineup depth and no pitching to a team with holes in the lineup and no pitching. The only reliable hitters: Trout, Rendon, Fletcher, Simmons.

I expect Simmons won't be re-signed.
So if Simmons leaves and Ohtani doesn't return to form next season they'll be looking at Trout, Rendon and Fletcher to score all the runs.
Maybe Adell has a break out year in 2021 but without Simmons and Ohtani continuing to suck they will be losing games 11 to 1.
 
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Hockey Duckie

Registered User
Jul 25, 2003
17,117
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southern cal
I would imagine Arte wants to see a winner before he passes away, isn't he in his late 70s or early 80s ? He might get impatient on a rebuild or want to change the guy running the rebuild.

Arte already won. He bought the Angels after winning the World Series and had Mike Trout in their system. Arte won big time when he used signing FA Pujols ($254 mil for 10 years) to get a massive TV contract from Fox Sports ($3 billion for 20 years). As long as Arte breaks even on the books year in and year out, then Arte already pocketed profits galore! Arte is trying to create something with the real estate he just acquired around Angels stadium.

It isn't about winning games or going to the playoffs for Arte. It's all about the profit margin and making that grow. That's why there's a budget. That's why he signs sluggers over pitching because people like seeing HR's over a boring low scoring game. Arte has won and will keep on winning because the goal is profit, not playoffs or championships. Remember, he also has sold to radio stations outside of the US by saying his team is Los Angeles Angels.

Arte make me appreciate the Samueli's so, so much!
 
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Anaheim4ever

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Jun 15, 2017
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Arte already won. He bought the Angels after winning the World Series and had Mike Trout in their system. Arte won big time when he used signing FA Pujols ($254 mil for 10 years) to get a massive TV contract from Fox Sports ($3 billion for 20 years). As long as Arte breaks even on the books year in and year out, then Arte already pocketed profits galore! Arte is trying to create something with the real estate he just acquired around Angels stadium.

It isn't about winning games or going to the playoffs for Arte. It's all about the profit margin and making that grow. That's why there's a budget. That's why he signs sluggers over pitching because people like seeing HR's over a boring low scoring game. Arte has won and will keep on winning because the goal is profit, not playoffs or championships. Remember, he also has sold to radio stations outside of the US by saying his team is Los Angeles Angels.

Arte make me appreciate the Samueli's so, so much!
And the Angels aren't even paying their minor leaguers during Covid, their too cheap. Read about it on AngelsWin.
Arte will get worse as he approaches his 80s. I just hope he doesn't go senile like the last days of al davis with oakland raiders.
 
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Anaheim4ever

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Jun 15, 2017
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Angels had 6 guys in the lineup hitting below .200 lmao and somehow won 2-0 vs the mighty Padres lineup. Barretto is batting .000 for the season.
 
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