Liljegren eager to take next step

[Fogelhund]

Dubas intuitively felt people would avoid Sandin because he is 5 10.

Oh, he told you that? LOL

 

[IceColdBear]

Dubas intuitively felt people would avoid Sandin because he is 5 10.

Hughes is a 5'10 defender and he was taken 7th overall...

 

[Kamiccolo]

Why are people setting timelines? No player is the same. What does it matter if they are 21, 22, 23? Johnsson is 23 and look how far he has come. Montour only made the NHL at 23 and he is a good promising D.

I think he needs one full year, minimum. He needs to become the 31 D on the Marlies. He needs top PP time, PK time, and shutdown minutes. Really stress test him and pull back when he gets overwhelmed. Let him get stronger. If he makes that step this year, then so be it. If he doesn't, give him his 20 year old year.

Eventually he will have an awesome season. When he does, doing the above, send him back down AGAIN. Let him over ripen. Give him 30-40 games to show last year wasn't a fluke and then bring him up.

Biggest difference between us then and now was we would rush him to the NHL this year. The team is good, he would be a bottom pairing guy at best. He isn't a huge upgrade on Carrick at this time.

Let him develop.

 

[Mess]

Dubas intuitively felt people would avoid Sandin because he is 5 10.

Dubas still hasn't intuitively learned that size does matter, and its an advantage to players that have it.

Dmen < 6'0 will need to be exceptional at very aspects of the game to succeed.

Liljegren at 6'0 is basically at floor size wise in desirable size for an NHL Dman. What Lil has going for him is he has to beat out 5'10" Carrick and he is a player Babs doesn't prefer to use because of his lack of size.

 

[MagicalRazor]

I'd let him play a full year in the AHL , give him big minutes and a big role let him crush it & than the following year bring him when he is high on confidence

 

[Stephen]

Depending on how the cap gets mangled up with the signing of the Big Three, we might need a Gardiner replacement ready to go next year. But not necessarily this year. Though if he's lights out, maybe you can make a decision on Gardiner (re-sign, trade, etc) knowing what you have in house.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Dubas still hasn't intuitively learned that size does matter, and its an advantage to players that have it.

Dmen < 6'0 will need to be exceptional at very aspects of the game to succeed.

Liljegren at 6'0 is basically at floor size wise in desirable size for an NHL Dman. What Lil has going for him is he has to beat out 5'10" Carrick and he is a player Babs doesn't prefer to use because of his lack of size.

can you stop spouting patently untrue nonsense like this?

 

[A1LeafNation]

Why are people setting timelines? No player is the same. What does it matter if they are 21, 22, 23? Johnsson is 23 and look how far he has come. Montour only made the NHL at 23 and he is a good promising D.

I think he needs one full year, minimum. He needs to become the 31 D on the Marlies. He needs top PP time, PK time, and shutdown minutes. Really stress test him and pull back when he gets overwhelmed. Let him get stronger. If he makes that step this year, then so be it. If he doesn't, give him his 20 year old year.

Eventually he will have an awesome season. When he does, doing the above, send him back down AGAIN. Let him over ripen. Give him 30-40 games to show last year wasn't a fluke and then bring him up.

Biggest difference between us then and now was we would rush him to the NHL this year. The team is good, he would be a bottom pairing guy at best. He isn't a huge upgrade on Carrick at this time.

Let him develop.

You are putting a minimum one year timeline too.

He could be ready now, we will see in training camp.

 

[biotk]

Depending on how the cap gets mangled up with the signing of the Big Three, we might need a Gardiner replacement ready to go next year. But not necessarily this year. Though if he's lights out, maybe you can make a decision on Gardiner (re-sign, trade, etc) knowing what you have in house.

I think that Dermott should be considered the Gardiner replacement. Liljegren is hopefully an upgrade on the right side.

 

[Razz]

I don't see a problem with him making the team as a #6. There is opportunity there for sure. If none of the lhd guys or Carrick work out, he could find his way on the team at some point. Doubt he wins a job out of camp unless he blows everyone away though.

 

[biotk]

For me it is pretty simple - if he will make the team better he should be in the lineup. Will that be the case this fall or some time during this season? I have no idea.

Last year I strongly believed that Liljegren should have received more consideration. I kind of view this a bit like the Moneyball story. Where the only question that really mattered was "does he get on base?"

I felt, and still feel, that the Leafs biggest problem by far is getting the puck out of their own zone. So for me the question is "does he get the puck out with possession?"

I feel that the organization probably feels the same way based on them either trading or not re-signing Bozak, JVR, Komarov, Martin, Moore and Polak. All of whom were horrendous at possession exits, and the addition of Tavares, Ennis and Jooris, all of whom are good to amazing (Tavares) at it.

Gardiner and Rielly are pretty good at possession exits, Dermott is getting better. The right-side is a complete frigging embarrassing train-wreck. Hainsey (terrible), Zaitsev (terrible - and not just last season - in his rookie season too), Polak (insanely bad), Carrick (slightly better than the others). It was easy for the Bruins to take advantage of that. And I have little doubt that every team plans on using the same game plan against the Leafs this season.

Liljegren? He is really good at it. During the pre-season last year he was top on the team among D - highest controlled exit percentage, lowest failed exit percentage, no icings. The first pre-season game was basically against Ottawa's NHL squad, and Liljegren's numbers were great. His stretch pass to Martin was one of the best of the year, although it was to Martin. I watched him a lot on the Marlies and he is both very good at evading fore-checkers and either skating it out, or more commonly making a strong first pass.

Liljegren should be confident about wanting to make the next step, and not just because every young high-end prospect should be confident, but because what he brings is exactly what the Leafs need the most. I am sure he watched the Leafs in the playoffs. If he didn't think that he should be able to make a strong case for playing on the right side then that would be a problem. Maybe he is not ready, but maybe he is. And if the latter is the case yet the Leafs decide not to play him - not to put a player in the lineup who would improve the team - because of either a desire for another elc slide year, or because they want to bake the player - then players shouldn't have loyalty to this team.

The over-cooking, baking philosophy has cult-like devotion despite no one ever being able to show me decent examples of it working. Detroit and New Jersey are the well known examples, but as I have said before, what those teams did was bring young stars in quickly, and stock the rest of their team through trades and signings. Their over-cooked prospects in the AHL never amounted to anything with Detroit.

Who would you take? Jakub Kindl - 19th overall by Detroit in 2005. The D spent two more years in the OHL (PPG), then 3 full years in the AHL. Then 7 years or so of playing of the 3rd pairing for about 40 or 50 games a year. Or Matt Niskanen - 28th overall by Dallas that same year, who played two years of college before walking into the NHL and playing 20+ minutes a game for the last 11 years and counting.

I know, I know. That is a flawed example. But it should be the proponents of over-baking that are providing examples. Montour is not really an example. As a late bloomer, he wasn't drafted until he was 20 and was full-time in the NHL at 22. Neither is a late round pick.

Sweden is the place where a ton of great young D are coming from. They don't over-cook those prospects. They bump them up to higher levels as quickly as possible.

Players continue to develop in the NHL. A lot of work has been, and is being done on Nylander and Marner, as they are molded into the kind of players that Babcock wants. Liljegren will be sheltered on the third pairing for at least half a season by Babs when he enters the NHL whether that is this season or 3 or 4 years from now.

 

[Treasure Island]

For me it is pretty simple - if he will make the team better he should be in the lineup. Will that be the case this fall or some time during this season? I have no idea.

Last year I strongly believed that Liljegren should have received more consideration. I kind of view this a bit like the Moneyball story. Where the only question that really mattered was "does he get on base?"

I felt, and still feel, that the Leafs biggest problem by far is getting the puck out of their own zone. So for me the question is "does he get the puck out with possession?"

I feel that the organization probably feels the same way based on them either trading or not re-signing Bozak, JVR, Komarov, Martin, Moore and Polak. All of whom were horrendous at possession exits, and the addition of Tavares, Ennis and Jooris, all of whom are good to amazing (Tavares) at it.

Gardiner and Rielly are pretty good at possession exits, Dermott is getting better. The right-side is a complete frigging embarrassing train-wreck. Hainsey (terrible), Zaitsev (terrible - and not just last season - in his rookie season too), Polak (insanely bad), Carrick (slightly better than the others). It was easy for the Bruins to take advantage of that. And I have little doubt that every team plans on using the same game plan against the Leafs this season.

Liljegren? He is really good at it. During the pre-season last year he was top on the team among D - highest controlled exit percentage, lowest failed exit percentage, no icings. The first pre-season game was basically against Ottawa's NHL squad, and Liljegren's numbers were great. His stretch pass to Martin was one of the best of the year, although it was to Martin. I watched him a lot on the Marlies and he is both very good at evading fore-checkers and either skating it out, or more commonly making a strong first pass.

Liljegren should be confident about wanting to make the next step, and not just because every young high-end prospect should be confident, but because what he brings is exactly what the Leafs need the most. I am sure he watched the Leafs in the playoffs. If he didn't think that he should be able to make a strong case for playing on the right side then that would be a problem. Maybe he is not ready, but maybe he is. And if the latter is the case yet the Leafs decide not to play him - not to put a player in the lineup who would improve the team - because of either a desire for another elc slide year, or because they want to bake the player - then players shouldn't have loyalty to this team.

The over-cooking, baking philosophy has cult-like devotion despite no one ever being able to show me decent examples of it working. Detroit and New Jersey are the well known examples, but as I have said before, what those teams did was bring young stars in quickly, and stock the rest of their team through trades and signings. Their over-cooked prospects in the AHL never amounted to anything with Detroit.

Who would you take? Jakub Kindl - 19th overall by Detroit in 2005. The D spent two more years in the OHL (PPG), then 3 full years in the AHL. Then 7 years or so of playing of the 3rd pairing for about 40 or 50 games a year. Or Matt Niskanen - 28th overall by Dallas that same year, who played two years of college before walking into the NHL and playing 20+ minutes a game for the last 11 years and counting.

I know, I know. That is a flawed example. But it should be the proponents of over-baking that are providing examples. Montour is not really an example. As a late bloomer, he wasn't drafted until he was 20 and was full-time in the NHL at 22. Neither is a late round pick.

Sweden is the place where a ton of great young D are coming from. They don't over-cook those prospects. They bump them up to higher levels as quickly as possible.

Players continue to develop in the NHL. A lot of work has been, and is being done on Nylander and Marner, as they are molded into the kind of players that Babcock wants. Liljegren will be sheltered on the third pairing for at least half a season by Babs when he enters the NHL whether that is this season or 3 or 4 years from now.

 

[Treasure Island]

Great write up. I agree.
Has anyone seen Lilly work out this year?
Has he filled out that lanky frame of his yet?
A few more pounds of muscle and with his tenacious style of play he will have a monstrous year.

 

[Kazparov]

Lily plays the whole year in the AHL. They will bring him along gradually. He needs to completely dominate in the minors for him to even get a sniff this year

 

[Treasure Island]

I think Lilly will turn a lot of heads in training camp this year. Especially if he has added a few pounds of muscle.
This will be a different Leaf team this year. A much more disciplined team with a defence first style of play. This will take some pressure off our D.
Looking forward to training camp

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

Really excited to see how Liljegren does this season with the Marlies. Hopefully he can progress to big, not sheltered minutes and really challenge for a spot next training camp or a call up in that 3rd post draft season at some point. Seems to be right on schedule thus far!

 

[leafsfan2point0]

He progressed well last year, especially defensively. If he can take another step this year I think he might get some games in at the end of the year similar to mcavoy a couple of years ago.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think Lilly will turn a lot of heads in training camp this year. Especially if he has added a few pounds of muscle.
This will be a different Leaf team this year. A much more disciplined team with a defence first style of play. This will take some pressure off our D.
Looking forward to training camp

I do expect us to be better on defence but "defence first" with so much nuclear power on offence? I don't think so.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Sandin is the guy the inner brass is all excited about. Sky is the limit apparently, in their minds for this kid.

Liljegren, is expected to be a 4/5 at best. Dermott a 3/4. Sandin a possible number one.

This is an epic facepalm of a post.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This is an epic facepalm of a post.

QFT.

 

[Kamiccolo]

For me it is pretty simple - if he will make the team better he should be in the lineup. Will that be the case this fall or some time during this season? I have no idea.

Last year I strongly believed that Liljegren should have received more consideration. I kind of view this a bit like the Moneyball story. Where the only question that really mattered was "does he get on base?"

I felt, and still feel, that the Leafs biggest problem by far is getting the puck out of their own zone. So for me the question is "does he get the puck out with possession?"

I feel that the organization probably feels the same way based on them either trading or not re-signing Bozak, JVR, Komarov, Martin, Moore and Polak. All of whom were horrendous at possession exits, and the addition of Tavares, Ennis and Jooris, all of whom are good to amazing (Tavares) at it.

Gardiner and Rielly are pretty good at possession exits, Dermott is getting better. The right-side is a complete frigging embarrassing train-wreck. Hainsey (terrible), Zaitsev (terrible - and not just last season - in his rookie season too), Polak (insanely bad), Carrick (slightly better than the others). It was easy for the Bruins to take advantage of that. And I have little doubt that every team plans on using the same game plan against the Leafs this season.

Liljegren? He is really good at it. During the pre-season last year he was top on the team among D - highest controlled exit percentage, lowest failed exit percentage, no icings. The first pre-season game was basically against Ottawa's NHL squad, and Liljegren's numbers were great. His stretch pass to Martin was one of the best of the year, although it was to Martin. I watched him a lot on the Marlies and he is both very good at evading fore-checkers and either skating it out, or more commonly making a strong first pass.

Liljegren should be confident about wanting to make the next step, and not just because every young high-end prospect should be confident, but because what he brings is exactly what the Leafs need the most. I am sure he watched the Leafs in the playoffs. If he didn't think that he should be able to make a strong case for playing on the right side then that would be a problem. Maybe he is not ready, but maybe he is. And if the latter is the case yet the Leafs decide not to play him - not to put a player in the lineup who would improve the team - because of either a desire for another elc slide year, or because they want to bake the player - then players shouldn't have loyalty to this team.

The over-cooking, baking philosophy has cult-like devotion despite no one ever being able to show me decent examples of it working. Detroit and New Jersey are the well known examples, but as I have said before, what those teams did was bring young stars in quickly, and stock the rest of their team through trades and signings. Their over-cooked prospects in the AHL never amounted to anything with Detroit.

Who would you take? Jakub Kindl - 19th overall by Detroit in 2005. The D spent two more years in the OHL (PPG), then 3 full years in the AHL. Then 7 years or so of playing of the 3rd pairing for about 40 or 50 games a year. Or Matt Niskanen - 28th overall by Dallas that same year, who played two years of college before walking into the NHL and playing 20+ minutes a game for the last 11 years and counting.

I know, I know. That is a flawed example. But it should be the proponents of over-baking that are providing examples. Montour is not really an example. As a late bloomer, he wasn't drafted until he was 20 and was full-time in the NHL at 22. Neither is a late round pick.

Sweden is the place where a ton of great young D are coming from. They don't over-cook those prospects. They bump them up to higher levels as quickly as possible.

Players continue to develop in the NHL. A lot of work has been, and is being done on Nylander and Marner, as they are molded into the kind of players that Babcock wants. Liljegren will be sheltered on the third pairing for at least half a season by Babs when he enters the NHL whether that is this season or 3 or 4 years from now.

Leafs have ruin many, many prospects with this line of thinking. Do you want a one dimential player who relies on one skilset to be a NHLer, or do we want to wait and let him develop to the point where that he can move the puck, AND play the PK, AND play top 4 minutes without needing to be sheltered, etc?

Look, I get it, but at the same time, Matthews, Nylander, and Marner are under 22. This team has YEARS left. I would rather develop the guys properly than rush them only to fall short and have wasted an asset like him.

 

[GoldenGOOSE]

I also know that Gilmour thinks Rasanen will be a very good NHL dman for the Leafs.

 

[Morbo]

can you stop spouting patently untrue nonsense like this?

I would say that's very unlikely.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Liljegren will play in the NHL but no one knows where until he gets there and passes the IQ test as the 3rd pair first and then move up the line up. No one knows how less time and smarter players will make him look in the NHL. Liljegren as the 2nd youngest player in the AHL had an impressive year and for sure progressed as a player during the year. He seemed solely focus on defense first in the playoffs which will round out his game nicely.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Leafs have ruin many, many prospects with this line of thinking. Do you want a one dimential player who relies on one skilset to be a NHLer, or do we want to wait and let him develop to the point where that he can move the puck, AND play the PK, AND play top 4 minutes without needing to be sheltered, etc?

Look, I get it, but at the same time, Matthews, Nylander, and Marner are under 22. This team has YEARS left. I would rather develop the guys properly than rush them only to fall short and have wasted an asset like him.

You don't learn to defend against Crosby by practicing defending against Komarov and Ennis or AHL plugs. McAvoy was thrown into first pairing minutes in the playoffs as his first real taste of NHL competition, some guys are just ready.

Ideally Liljegren would be playing in some kind of league full of other teams top prospects. Unfortunately the AHL isn't that, most of it is full of grinding lifers and small skilled guys with huge holes in their games. Both of those types are the ideal candidate for Liljegren to abuse with his speed in ways that won't work in the NHL.