Liljegren eager to take next step

[Once]

Unless he completely blows up this year he won't crack the roster whatsoever.

 

[Fogelhund]

Dermott played 87 regular season AHL games, plus 26 playoff games.

Liljegren has played 44 regular season, and 20 playoff games in the AHL already. Half a season in the AHL, and he'll be on par with the amount of time that Dermott spent there. I'm not saying that they are on the same path, but it wouldn't be a complete shock to see him up at some point. But, that's solely based on his readiness.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Dermott played 87 regular season AHL games, plus 26 playoff games.

Liljegren has played 44 regular season, and 20 playoff games in the AHL already. Half a season in the AHL, and he'll be on par with the amount of time that Dermott spent there. I'm not saying that they are on the same path, but it wouldn't be a complete shock to see him up at some point. But, that's solely based on his readiness.

Important to note here that Dermott also played a year in Erie after being drafted.

 

[Fogelhund]

Also important to note, that while Dermott was playing kids in his draft year, and draft year +1, Timothy was playing professional hockey against men for two years, in Sweden's top league.

 

[DarkKnight]

I guess I just disagree. Not all players need to marinate or dominate in the AHL before they come to the NHL. If he does well to start the year, I hope he's the first call up. I don't want us to "bake" him longer than he needs to for the sake of it.

Not all players do, sure. That said, it was really obvious Lil had work to do, and that’s where you let him mature without doing the Luke Schenn routine. The “bake” philosophy sure seems to be working imho.

 

[biotk]

Dermott played 87 regular season AHL games, plus 26 playoff games.

Liljegren has played 44 regular season, and 20 playoff games in the AHL already. Half a season in the AHL, and he'll be on par with the amount of time that Dermott spent there. I'm not saying that they are on the same path, but it wouldn't be a complete shock to see him up at some point. But, that's solely based on his readiness.

14 of those AHL playoff games for Dermott were also after the call-up. Including both regular season and playoffs, Dermott had played 97 AHL games before being called up to the NHL for a two game stint, and then 2 more AHL games before being called up for good.

Lilly has played 64 AHL games, and when you add in the SHL games he has played 102 games of high level pro hockey.

Dermott was a great D in the AHL. But he wasn't dominant. Nor was he dominant when he returned to the AHL for the playoffs. That shouldn't be a surprise. Few D are dominant at the AHL level.

Dermott was also 21 years 15 days old for his NHL debut. Lilly won't turn 21 until April 30th 2020.

Dermott was a second round pick who has improved a lot. Lilly was a mid-first round pick who had been pegged as a top-5 draft choice at the start of draft year. Since his draft he has shown that he is better defensively than he was given credit for. His offensive numbers were not what most people expected. However, as I have said, he started off the year with 5 points in 7 games, and then as far as I can tell (and the interviews seem to support this) shifted heavily to concentrating on improving his defensive play and other aspects of his game. I feel that this constant concentration on those aspects of his game led to him essentially choking offensively (ie your timing is a little off etc because you are not playing naturally - because you are focused on changing other aspects of your game). This year will likely provide the answer as to whether he is simply not as good offensively as he was advertised, or if he comes into his own.

Beats me when Liljegren will called up. The Leafs have more D options on the right side than they did a year ago (Ozi, Subban, and Holl - who improved significantly last year). None of those options are top-4, but they are still there.

However, people saying that he should be baked until he can enter the NHL in a top-4 role are dreaming. Babcock is going to shelter the crap out of any young D entering his lineup, unless it is a catastrophic multiple injury situation.

I think that the baking philosophy is essentially nonsense. I haven't seen examples of players coming into the NHL and playing top line/pairing roles because they baked for years in the AHL. It wouldn't have turned Luke Schenn into a different type of D. He was simply a dinosaur pick by dinosaur management entering a league that was rapidly changing away from valuing those types of dinosaurs.

The stature of Swedish prospects, especially D prospects, has grown tremendously over the last decade or so. It seems to not support the baking philosophy either. Prospects are pushed up to higher leagues quickly, like the SHL, at young ages, where they get limited ice time and are often the 7th D (they play with 7D in the lineup there), but do get experience playing at a higher level and learning from better teammates. In North America Strome sat in the CHL for years, not good enough for the NHL, not challenged in the CHL, but not eligible for the AHL. I think that was disastrous for his development.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Towards the end of the year when Babcock breaks Hainsey...

Rielly - - - Dermott
Gardiner - - Zaitsev
Borgman - Liljigren

 

[DanM]

If it takes someone 4 years to become an NHL regular solid top 4 D, that's not a fail IMO.
Lots of players have been brought up (draft year or draft year + 1) and faded away.
Success is measured by sustainability, not who gets rushed faster.
Who is better?
Player A, 13 years in the NHL, good for 10.
Player B, 10 years in the NHL, good for 10.

4 year to become a NHL regular top 4 D is fine, I was talking about it being a fail if he is called up to the league in 3 years.

 

[Voodoo Child]

All I know is we absolutely cannot afford to butter Liljegren's development.

Keep him in the A, maybe call him up if and only if, he's doing some superstar shit down there, like being PPG in a role where he isn't ultra sheltered.

People are fronting like we're going to trade Nylander for a D - and who knows, we might (hint: even though he's a soft pretty boy euro floater*, they all want him...they just don't want to pay for him), when between Liljegren, Sandin and Dermott, and plumber types like Borgman, Rosen, Holl and Ozighanov, we have more than enough depth at D to find a replacement internally...it just won't be this year, and Willy isn't going for a song to get a guy who is good now but we might already have a better guy in the system.

I think he stays in the A this year and is a huge threat to make it out of camp next year. He has a very interesting tool set (right shot, decent but not amazing size, good skating, good wrister from the point etc.,), but he needs to refine a few things in his game.

* their words, not mine.

 

[Eb]

If only Dermott was a rightie....

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

Did you read my previous posts in this thread?

Yeah and every single one of them is getting worse than the previous.

 

[kb]

They did the Rielly thing with him. Essentially saying we want you to concentrate on D only, we don't care about O because we know you can do that in spades (as someone mentioned, 5 pts in his first 7 games before the shackles were put on).

This whole 'dominating' angle is somewhat overblown too. If you are an electrician by trade and you are told to concentrate on helping plumbers finish a job, are you gonna "dominate" the other plumbers?

I say keep him challenged by steadily advancing him. Dominating the A isn't the goal, and there is little evidence to suggest this makes better players. The A is where players go to learn their craft, and the ones that pick it up the quickest should move up the quickest. Most of the ones that do need "marinating" are low round draft picks with more question marks and much bigger holes in their games.

The goal for Liljegren was to learn to play D last year. And from pre-season to playoffs, his D improved by leaps and bounds. If he can keep up to the NHL pace of play, it's the best place for him to be. Be it out of camp, halfway through the season, or next season.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Im eager for him to take the next step as well

 

[Notsince67]

Because we need him to be a solid, competent defenseman, not another Gardiner.

Tableau Public
Filter for the leafs and see where Gardiner stands with the rest of the league if you feel is 50+ point season is not enough

 

[A1LeafNation]

Yeah and every single one of them is getting worse than the previous.

How so?

 

[Legion34]

We need elc years and expansion protection. The cap crunch starts next year. Much better to have Lilly at under a million for 3 years instead of 2 when we need it. We can afford a stop gap this year worst case.

Never mind if there is an expansion delay and now we end up having to protect him

 

[daveleaf]

Maple Leafs defence prospect Timothy Liljegren eager to take next step

I can see TL impressing in training camp, and playing the last 40 games of the season in a sheltered role like Dermott last year:

Rielly Zaitsev
Gardiner Liljegren
Dermott Hainsey
Borgman Carrick

I honestly think people underestimate the value of Dermott. I firmly believe he is a very capable second line pairing d man. I believe before the season gets too far along he becomes a fixture on that second line.

That being said I don't see why TL can't be on this team sometime after Christmas but there are others there that can be given the opportunity.

 

[613Leafer]

No reason to rush him. Last season he had a solid rookie season in the AHL, but still struggled at times and wasn't an all-star/dominant player.

He clearly still has quite a bit of room to grow at the AHL level. I'd let him do that getting top pairing all-situation minutes, rather than potentially struggling at the NHL level playing ~14-16 minutes a night.

 

[deletethis]

If only Dermott was a rightie....

Maybe he'll be a left handed defenseman who can play the right side.

 

[stanleyorbust]

Competition is good. Let the best win a spot. If he happens to take a spot great, if not another year in the AHL isn’t the worst thing for his development.

 

[Borschevsky]

I'd like to see him improve his physicality and skating a bit more. He was knocked off the puck very easily at the beginning of the season and slowly improved.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Dermott played 87 regular season AHL games, plus 26 playoff games.

Liljegren has played 44 regular season, and 20 playoff games in the AHL already. Half a season in the AHL, and he'll be on par with the amount of time that Dermott spent there. I'm not saying that they are on the same path, but it wouldn't be a complete shock to see him up at some point. But, that's solely based on his readiness.

Also, I think ppl forget Liljegren was playing professional hockey before Dermott.

 

[Jozay]

Would like him to be relied on more with the marlies and used in all situations to see how he handles it before bringing him up.

I say next year he'll probably make the team.

 

[BM14]

Tableau Public
Filter for the leafs and see where Gardiner stands with the rest of the league if you feel is 50+ point season is not enough

You overlooked the bolded section.

 

[Notsince67]

You overlooked the bolded section.

You overlooked that Zone exits is a defensive metric.