Likelihood Sens sign both Duchene and Stone

[DaveMatthew]

https://www.tsn.ca/recent-history-s...ed-territory-on-duchene-stone-deals-1.1223966

Since the summer of 2013, there have been 37 players who re-signed with their teams for a maximum eight-year contract. Looking at that breakdown, you’ll see that approximately 90 per cent of these eight-year deals were signed in the period between June and September. That leaves four maximum extensions that were signed at some point after the calendar flipped to October to start the regular season.

In the past five years, the only pending UFA to re-sign with his team for a maximum eight-year contract in the period between Dec. 1 and the NHL trade deadline was Kings captain Anze Kopitar, who inked an eight-year deal worth $80 million on January 16, 2016.

The challenge for Dorion is clear: Try and sign two star players to eight-year contract extensions between now and the trade deadline.
But to put it simply, we’ve reached a window where it’s virtually unheard of to sign a player to an eight-year contract.
That’s not to say it’s impossible – just that recent history suggests it is highly unusual.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

The most recent quote we have is from Mark Stone talking about how Karlsson is still a good friend of his and how he was disappointed they moved on from him because he was a great player who was welcoming to everyone who came into the locker room.

Why do you ignore that?

Because you will never get a quote from a player badmouthing another player. There’s no point trying to find truth in a media quote.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Grain of salt, but hearing “unofficially” that Sens and Stone are on the same page and that an extension in Jan is very likely.

My money is on Stone wearing the C on Jan 2nd against Vancouver.

I hope it happens, it would just be hairious to see us delay it only for Stone to increase his value. It should have been done in the summer.

 

[BatherSeason]

There’s no point trying to find truth in a media quote.

Interesting advice...

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Chris Neil was so much more than a 4th line fighter, he was tremendously important to our team, he’s Sens royalty FFS. I’m not saying he should have been captain, but you just accused people of revisionist history.

Also, try and understand that the issues with EK never came from the team, it has come from players in the room. This was not management slamming a player who left, PD has yet to say anything disparaging about EK.

This was players talking, but why let the facts get in the way of a good old management bashing session...

By the time the captaincy was open when Alfie left, he was pretty much a 4th line fighter only at that point. I meant no slight on Neil, he was a legend, but at that stage he was just about done.

My opinion is that Dorion was directly throwing EK and Hoff under the bus with his broken dressing room comments. As Hoff put it, "Sometimes people just need to say things to try to justify trading players away." You may say that's just how I'm perceiving those comments, but that's all you're doing with the EK stuff from teammates. We don't have anything directly identifiable as disparaging remarks towards Karlsson and almost every quote that's made about him by teammates have been supportive and lamenting that he had to be dealt. The players aren't stupid, they know the main reason these guys and others are gone because of team finances (justified or not) and anything else is hyperbole other than perhaps Hoffman's gf situation.

This team can try to do whatever it wants to justify shipping out quality players, but I'm not buying it and I will continue to call them on the bullshit I think they're trying to sell. They should have just come out from day 1 and been honest... "We're trading Erik Karlsson because we can't afford a contract of this magnitude." Boom, done.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Because you will never get a quote from a player badmouthing another player. There’s no point trying to find truth in a media quote.

So for all we know, all the rumor/innuendo is completely untrue.

Maybe "the locker room was broken" was just a convenient excuse for Dorion to distract people from the shitty roster he put together. Hell, there was a period last year where Alex Burrows, Chris DiDomenico, Gabriel Dumont, Tom Pyatt and Johnny Oduya were all playing 10+ minutes a night. That might be a reason for why we sucked that no one talks about anymore...

 

[BatherSeason]

Rangers playoffs when Neil tuned up and got even with Tanner Glass turned that series around

No it didn't.

 

[HSF]

The sens were so soft against the rangers. Glass was running whoever he wanted and Neil came in a took care of that

It definitely was a momentum shifter. Its not really Neil's fault that no one else was willing to stand up

 

[GCK]

Grain of salt, but hearing “unofficially” that Sens and Stone are on the same page and that an extension in Jan is very likely.

My money is on Stone wearing the C on Jan 2nd against Vancouver.

That would go against what I’ve been hearing. My sources are on these boards and they are adamant that no NHL player would willingly sign here.

 

[topshelf15]

That would go against what I’ve been hearing. My sources are on these boards and they are adamant that no NHL player would willingly sign here.

Would you??? If you had a choice???Be honest

 

[BatherSeason]

My sources are on these boards and they are adamant that no NHL player would willingly sign here.

Your sources on this board are just waiting to be proven wrong. We are in this together, we are all fans remember. Good fan or bad fan and whatever your definition of that is, WE ARE ALL FANS!

Eugene Melnyk and Pierre Dorion have done themselves no favours in trying to persuade the fanbase to support the team in a positive manner. Signing Mark Stone and some people wll change their minds.

 

[topshelf15]

Your sources on this board are just waiting to be proven wrong. We are in this together, we are all fans remember. Good fan or bad fan and whatever your definition of that is, WE ARE ALL FANS!

Eugene Melnyk and Pierre Dorion have done themselves no favours in trying to persuade the fanbase to support the team in a positive manner. Signing Mark Stone and some people wll change their minds.

It would be a start,but I am not willing to just let go and think that the Leopard has changed his spots....EM has far far more work to do

 

[BatherSeason]

It would be a start,but I am not willing to just let go and think that the Leopard has changed his spots....EM has far far more work to do

It would be a baby step, but at least it would be a step in the right direction.

Its just unbelievable to me that some people just think we should trust the guys running this organization to do what's best for this hockey club.

 

[BondraTime]

They need to spend money to reach the floor, might as well be on one of our own superstars.

Now they need to convince Stone to sign it, that's the only thing holding it back come January, same situation as this summer instead of an arbitration deadline it's a trade deadline.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Maybe if Stone stays , Duchene will too. I'd be tempted to try to get Duchene to stick on a shorter term , deal if he'd be amenable; leaving the window open for him to move if that's what he wants down the road.

 

[bert]

Maybe if Stone stays , Duchene will too. I'd be tempted to try to get Duchene to stick on a shorter term , deal if he'd be amenable; leaving the window open for him to move if that's what he wants down the road.

I just dont think he does that at 28 years old unfortunately. If he really wants to control his destiny he gets a NMC and a long term deal with Ottawa then demands a trade if he doesnt like where things are going.

The sens have to find a way to sign Stone and one of Duchene or Dzingel in my opinion. They gotta get atleast 2 of the 3 of them or they should just trade them all at this point.

 

[DaveMatthew]

They need to spend money to reach the floor, might as well be on one of our own superstars.

Now they need to convince Stone to sign it, that's the only thing holding it back come January, same situation as this summer instead of an arbitration deadline it's a trade deadline.

A great way to convince Stone to stay is by telling him, "we need to pay someone to reach the cap floor and we want that someone to be you"... That's what a guy who wants to win wants to hear.

If Stone/Duchene are going to stay, they have to be convinced that in 2-3 years when the young players mature, ownership will spend the 84-85 million dollars needed to compete for the cup. We'll see if they can do that.

I think both would be fine playing on a young, inexpensive team for 1 or 2 more seasons after this one. They won't do it for 8 years though.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The most recent quote we have is from Mark Stone talking about how Karlsson is still a good friend of his and how he was disappointed they moved on from him because he was a great player who was welcoming to everyone who came into the locker room.

Why do you ignore that?

Can you please post a quote from a player about Karlsson's role in the room, that isn't from a media member (Garrioch, Stevenson) editorializing how they think players "feel" or "sound", that is negative?

And no, I'm not a fanboy defending EK. I just find it funny how some people blame all the dysfunction on him yet defend Dorion, Boucher and Melnyk at every step.

I mean, when Turris and his wife insinuate that Melnyk and Dorion are dysfunctional, you don't believe it. But when Borowiecki makes a vague comment about the team hanging out together, you take that as gospel that Karlsson was the problem.

Can't have it both ways.

Kyle Turris and Marc Methot were taking jabs at this organization well before the Karlsson situation happened, so maybe, just maybe, the dysfunction and distraction wasn't because of one player last season?

Stone seems friendly with EK, which is of no surprise. Nothing he said contradicts his earlier comments about how different the team was to start the season. You do know that you can like a guy, and you can be a good guy, and still no longer be a good fit in the room (an argument I’ve made several times when you guys have argued tibthe extreme).

Duchene talked about how fun the team was to be around, and in the summer he also talked about how important Stones contract was to his long term comintments, citing EK resigning as being different.

Andy talked about team drama being an issue, and we know for a fact that EK was at the Centre of a major part of the team drama, according to Hoffman refusing to even look at the ‘proof’ he had that it wasn’t his wife...

Wideman was very specific when talking about EK being gone from the room.

Burrows was clear about the locker room issues and lamented not taking steps to fix it.

Forget his name at the moment, but the ex US player who talked about friends he had on the team and what they had to say about EK.

We have a few reporters in his return game that are close to the team that shared issues concerning EK in the room. These guys talked about being in the room dude, they weren’t editorializing about things they heard.

Then of course we have the insinuations made by Hoffman, and further information about him and his girl denying involvement in the harassment accusations.

Last but not least we have his d partner flipping out at him on the ice the other day about selfish play.

I’m sure I’m missing a few comments, but I have deliberately avoid editorials as you put them. Turris was crank at being traded, and Methot was upset at being exposed in the expansion draft. Funny how they both take parting shots at an organization that they wanted to stay with. In any case, EM and Dorion allegedly not agreeing on Turris was next to nothing to do with EK unless your point is that they have since joined forces to influence players, ex players, media that have room access, and even players on his current team into the grand anti EK conspiracy, all while not personally saying anything disparaging about him.

It seems to me that you’re being deliberately dense. Just claiming to not be an EK fanboy doesn’t quite cut it. On the other hand those who work overtime to hate management seem to be using this as a management driven conspiracy as well take your pick.

 

[Tuna99]

No it didn't.

It didn’t? Okay, I better go back and erase my fan-memory of that series. Can you send me the breakdown of the series important moments so I can update my memory

 

[OmniSens]

Grain of salt, but hearing “unofficially” that Sens and Stone are on the same page and that an extension in Jan is very likely.

My money is on Stone wearing the C on Jan 2nd against Vancouver.

Pretty bold prediction. I hope you're right.

 

[Ice-Tray]

By the time the captaincy was open when Alfie left, he was pretty much a 4th line fighter only at that point. I meant no slight on Neil, he was a legend, but at that stage he was just about done.

My opinion is that Dorion was directly throwing EK and Hoff under the bus with his broken dressing room comments. As Hoff put it, "Sometimes people just need to say things to try to justify trading players away." You may say that's just how I'm perceiving those comments, but that's all you're doing with the EK stuff from teammates. We don't have anything directly identifiable as disparaging remarks towards Karlsson and almost every quote that's made about him by teammates have been supportive and lamenting that he had to be dealt. The players aren't stupid, they know the main reason these guys and others are gone because of team finances (justified or not) and anything else is hyperbole other than perhaps Hoffman's gf situation.

This team can try to do whatever it wants to justify shipping out quality players, but I'm not buying it and I will continue to call them on the bull**** I think they're trying to sell. They should have just come out from day 1 and been honest... "We're trading Erik Karlsson because we can't afford a contract of this magnitude." Boom, done.

Dont you talk smack about Neiler!!!!

Sure man, not that it matters but I’ve chosen I give your posts a ton of latitude, when it come to arguing, you don’t need me badgering you. (Not meant to be patronizing, more like I can be a dog with a bone sometimes)

There are like ten different people who have mentioned drama in the room beyond PD, this was not made up as a conspiracy. Andy and Burrows in particular were very clear and wouldn’t lie about it.

If we sign Stone I do expect you to soften your stance a bit!

Hope things are going well man, enjoy the holidays

 

[aragorn]

Regardless of the position they play or where they play in the lineup, if they are on the team, if they are looked upon as leaders of the team, than they have every right to be a captain as anyone else, especially when they are laying their body on the line for the team. Often when they drop the gloves it is in protection of the skill guys & it is those skill guys who appreciate them being on the team the most to begin with. Why would the amount of pts a player gets be important in the decision to nominate a captain?

It's much better than having a primadonna as captain who considers himself above everyone else or someone who divides the room or half of the team resent the guy. IMO Mark Stone should be the next captain since he does everything well at both ends of the ice & seems well liked by everyone & acts the part of a good captain. In fact, he should have been made captain already. But all that to say this organization, owner, GM & management staff are all guilty of not handling all of this nonsense much more professionally & of course, I'm quite sure that money & the lack of it is probably at the bottom of most of these problems too.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Stone seems friendly with EK, which is of no surprise. Nothing he said contradicts his earlier comments about how different the team was to start the season. You do know that you can like a guy, and you can be a good guy, and still no longer be a good fit in the room (an argument I’ve made several times when you guys have argued tibthe extreme).

Duchene talked about how fun the team was to be around, and in the summer he also talked about how important Stones contract was to his long term comintments, citing EK resigning as being different.

Andy talked about team drama being an issue, and we know for a fact that EK was at the Centre of a major part of the team drama, according to Hoffman refusing to even look at the ‘proof’ he had that it wasn’t his wife...

Wideman was very specific when talking about EK being gone from the room.

Burrows was clear about the locker room issues and lamented not taking steps to fix it.

Forget his name at the moment, but the ex US player who talked about friends he had on the team and what they had to say about EK.

We have a few reporters in his return game that are close to the team that shared issues concerning EK in the room. These guys talked about being in the room dude, they weren’t editorializing about things they heard.

Then of course we have the insinuations made by Hoffman, and further information about him and his girl denying involvement in the harassment accusations.

Last but not least we have his d partner flipping out at him on the ice the other day about selfish play.

I’m sure I’m missing a few comments, but I have deliberately avoid editorials as you put them. Turris was crank at being traded, and Methot was upset at being exposed in the expansion draft. Funny how they both take parting shots at an organization that they wanted to stay with. In any case, EM and Dorion allegedly not agreeing on Turris was next to nothing to do with EK unless your point is that they have since joined forces to influence players, ex players, media that have room access, and even players on his current team into the grand anti EK conspiracy, all while not personally saying anything disparaging about him.

It seems to me that you’re being deliberately dense. Just claiming to not be an EK fanboy doesn’t quite cut it. On the other hand those who work overtime to hate management seem to be using this as a management driven conspiracy as well take your pick.

Not one of those examples is clear in pushing your narrative of Karlsson being a locker room issue.

Duchene talked about how fun the team was to be around, and in the summer he also talked about how important Stones contract was to his long term comintments, citing EK resigning as being different.

The team is probably be fun to be around because we've replaced aging veterans (Burrows, Thompson, Dumont, Oduya, Phaneuf) with young players (Tkachuk, White, Lajoie, Batherson, Jaros, etc). After games, aging veterans go home to their wife and kids. Young players go out and hang out. That has nothing to do with Karlsson.

Andy talked about team drama being an issue, and we know for a fact that EK was at the Centre of a major part of the team drama, according to Hoffman refusing to even look at the ‘proof’ he had that it wasn’t his wife.

Both Hoffman and Karlsson have come out and said that the issues between them and their wives had no impact on the season, and in fact, that no one on the team knew anything was going on until after the trade deadline. That timeline lines up with everything we know, so that "drama" had zero impact on performance since the team was effectively out of the playoff race by mid-November.

Wideman was very specific when talking about EK being gone from the room.

Wideman's comments were not about Karlsson in the room, but about how the on-ice system has changed with him gone. The system should have changed regardless of whether Karlsson was here or not, and if you say that, "Karlsson forced the team to play a certain way", well, that's crap. Good coaches don't defer to star players, and good teams don't trade star players (See: Babcock with Matthews and Zetterberg, Quenneville with Kane, Bowman with every player he every coached).

Burrows was clear about the locker room issues and lamented not taking steps to fix it.

Not once did he reference Karlsson, though. There were numerous other issues that he could have been talking about:
• The awkwardness of Phaneuf refusing to waive his NMC resulting in the loss of Methot
• The questionable negotiations with Turris, a key leader on the team, and how they could have impacted other veteran's relationships with management
• The public leaking of every player being asked for his NTC list in November

All of those could have caused friction and distraction in the locker room, and likely exacerbated an already tense environment that was primarily caused by losing.

Forget his name at the moment, but the ex US player who talked about friends he had on the team and what they had to say about EK.

That was Patrick O'Sullivan, who last played an NHL game 2011/12. The only Senator from last year that he every played with was Kyle Turris (a whopping 6 games), who's only had glowing things to say about Karlsson as a player and leader. Should we take the word of O'Sullivan, or the word of Alfredsson, Turris, Thompson, Methot, MacArthur, etc, who've all spoken highly of EK?

We have a few reporters in his return game that are close to the team that shared issues concerning EK in the room. These guys talked about being in the room dude, they weren’t editorializing about things they heard.

They were absolutely editorializing. They were taking things they saw or heard, and making assumptions about them. They editorialized that the room was "closer" because Karlsson was no longer in it, when it could very well be because the room was injected with a bunch of under 25 players who have no families and spend time together, whereas veterans have their own lives and responsibilities to deal with. You're not going out for drinks after every game when you have a wife and/or kids, like the majority of last year's team did.

Last but not least we have his d partner flipping out at him on the ice the other day about selfish play.

His d-partner? We have no idea who said that. It could very well have been someone on the other team. Hell, it could have been Karlsson himself frustrated after a bad play. Have you ever played before? Players swear at themselves all the time during a game.

Again, all your examples are vague statements that you've taken out of context to support your narrative. They could easily be interpreted several different ways, like I just did.

You know what can't be misinterpreted?

• The team's roster going into last year was old, slow and lacked skill
• And old and slow roster, a star player coming off major surgery and a reluctance to integrate young players caused the team to lose a lot of games in October, November and December
• When a veteran team loses and is out of the playoff race by December, players check out, especially when the GM comes out and says that he's willing to trade anyone
• A team that checks out has locker room issues and a negative environment
• When the team replaces many of those old, slow, unskilled players with young rookies who are just happy to be in the NHL and haven't yet been jaded, the atmosphere in the room improves

That's what's happened. But sure... it was Karlsson.

 

[BatherSeason]

Stone seems friendly with EK, which is of no surprise. Nothing he said contradicts his earlier comments about how different the team was to start the season. You do know that you can like a guy, and you can be a good guy, and still no longer be a good fit in the room (an argument I’ve made several times when you guys have argued tibthe extreme).

Duchene talked about how fun the team was to be around, and in the summer he also talked about how important Stones contract was to his long term comintments, citing EK resigning as being different.

Andy talked about team drama being an issue, and we know for a fact that EK was at the Centre of a major part of the team drama, according to Hoffman refusing to even look at the ‘proof’ he had that it wasn’t his wife...

Wideman was very specific when talking about EK being gone from the room.

Burrows was clear about the locker room issues and lamented not taking steps to fix it.

Forget his name at the moment, but the ex US player who talked about friends he had on the team and what they had to say about EK.

We have a few reporters in his return game that are close to the team that shared issues concerning EK in the room. These guys talked about being in the room dude, they weren’t editorializing about things they heard.

Then of course we have the insinuations made by Hoffman, and further information about him and his girl denying involvement in the harassment accusations.

Last but not least we have his d partner flipping out at him on the ice the other day about selfish play.

I’m sure I’m missing a few comments, but I have deliberately avoid editorials as you put them. Turris was crank at being traded, and Methot was upset at being exposed in the expansion draft. Funny how they both take parting shots at an organization that they wanted to stay with. In any case, EM and Dorion allegedly not agreeing on Turris was next to nothing to do with EK unless your point is that they have since joined forces to influence players, ex players, media that have room access, and even players on his current team into the grand anti EK conspiracy, all while not personally saying anything disparaging about him.

It seems to me that you’re being deliberately dense. Just claiming to not be an EK fanboy doesn’t quite cut it. On the other hand those who work overtime to hate management seem to be using this as a management driven conspiracy as well take your pick.

Welcome to Ice Tray Enquirer.!! Or is it Ice TMZ??

Just claiming to not be an EK fanboy

Using the word "fanboy" makes you sound like a child. Your points are articulated very well, then you name call, so most of the 95% that don't agree with you, won't take you seriously. We are all fans of this team. Because the majority of people in here do not agree with what you have to say, that doesn't make anyone "fanboys"

 

[BatherSeason]

My opinion is that Dorion was directly throwing EK and Hoff under the bus with his broken dressing room comments.

The whole EK/Hoff issue was a very convenient circumstance for Dorion. It set up his "locker room was broken" garbage. Who knows, maybe it was Dorion/Melnyk that leaked the story on purpose??

Remember right after Hoffman was traded when Dorion said that the locker room was now 100% fixed?? What happened to that? Nobody paid attention, so the org decided to run with the "EK must be the problem" narrative.