Likelihood Sens sign both Duchene and Stone

[Ice-Tray]

Not one of those examples is clear in pushing your narrative of Karlsson being a locker room issue.



The team is probably be fun to be around because we've replaced aging veterans (Burrows, Thompson, Dumont, Oduya, Phaneuf) with young players (Tkachuk, White, Lajoie, Batherson, Jaros, etc). After games, aging veterans go home to their wife and kids. Young players go out and hang out. That has nothing to do with Karlsson.



Both Hoffman and Karlsson have come out and said that the issues between them and their wives had no impact on the season, and in fact, that no one on the team knew anything was going on until after the trade deadline. That timeline lines up with everything we know, so that "drama" had zero impact on performance since the team was effectively out of the playoff race by mid-November.



Wideman's comments were not about Karlsson in the room, but about how the on-ice system has changed with him gone. The system should have changed regardless of whether Karlsson was here or not, and if you say that, "Karlsson forced the team to play a certain way", well, that's crap. Good coaches don't defer to star players, and good teams don't trade star players (See: Babcock with Matthews and Zetterberg, Quenneville with Kane, Bowman with every player he every coached).



Not once did he reference Karlsson, though. There were numerous other issues that he could have been talking about:
• The awkwardness of Phaneuf refusing to waive his NMC resulting in the loss of Methot
• The questionable negotiations with Turris, a key leader on the team, and how they could have impacted other veteran's relationships with management
• The public leaking of every player being asked for his NTC list in November

All of those could have caused friction and distraction in the locker room, and likely exacerbated an already tense environment that was primarily caused by losing.



That was Patrick O'Sullivan, who last played an NHL game 2011/12. The only Senator from last year that he every played with was Kyle Turris (a whopping 6 games), who's only had glowing things to say about Karlsson as a player and leader. Should we take the word of O'Sullivan, or the word of Alfredsson, Turris, Thompson, Methot, MacArthur, etc, who've all spoken highly of EK?



They were absolutely editorializing. They were taking things they saw or heard, and making assumptions about them. They editorialized that the room was "closer" because Karlsson was no longer in it, when it could very well be because the room was injected with a bunch of under 25 players who have no families and spend time together, whereas veterans have their own lives and responsibilities to deal with. You're not going out for drinks after every game when you have a wife and/or kids, like the majority of last year's team did.



His d-partner? We have no idea who said that. It could very well have been someone on the other team. Hell, it could have been Karlsson himself frustrated after a bad play. Have you ever played before? Players swear at themselves all the time during a game.

Again, all your examples are vague statements that you've taken out of context to support your narrative. They could easily be interpreted several different ways, like I just did.

You know what can't be misinterpreted?

• The team's roster going into last year was old, slow and lacked skill
• And old and slow roster, a star player coming off major surgery and a reluctance to integrate young players caused the team to lose a lot of games in October, November and December
• When a veteran team loses and is out of the playoff race by December, players check out, especially when the GM comes out and says that he's willing to trade anyone
• A team that checks out has locker room issues and a negative environment
• When the team replaces many of those old, slow, unskilled players with young rookies who are just happy to be in the NHL and haven't yet been jaded, the atmosphere in the room improves

That's what's happened. But sure... it was Karlsson.

Hahaha, “my narrative”? Ok man, like I said, there really is no point to this, fanboys will fanboy.

My favorite part though was when you supposed that it was EK loudly criticizing himself on the ice!

 

[Ice-Tray]

The whole EK/Hoff issue was a very convenient circumstance for Dorion. It set up his "locker room was broken" garbage. Who knows, maybe it was Dorion/Melnyk that leaked the story on purpose??

Remember right after Hoffman was traded when Dorion said that the locker room was now 100% fixed?? What happened to that? Nobody paid attention, so the org decided to run with the "EK must be the problem" narrative.

Yes and then paid Anderson and Burrows to specifically reference it, and then forced all of the media shills to support it, and then paid a variety of other players and ex players to support it.

It’s the only thing that makes sense really...

 

[BatherSeason]

Yes and then paid Anderson and Burrows to specifically reference it, and then forced all of the media shills to support it, and then paid a variety of other players and ex players to support it.

It’s the only thing that makes sense really...

Maybe Andy should look in the mirror and realize that his sub-900 save % helped contribute to the locker room being broken.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Hahaha, “my narrative”? Ok man, like I said, there really is no point to this, fanboys will fanboy.

My favorite part though was when you supposed that it was EK loudly criticizing himself on the ice!

Do you think Jamie Benn was criticizing himself on the ice there?

 

[DaveMatthew]

Yes and then paid Anderson and Burrows to specifically reference it, and then forced all of the media shills to support it, and then paid a variety of other players and ex players to support it.

It’s the only thing that makes sense really...

They didn't specifically reference Karlsson, they referenced issues, which could have been caused by a multitude of other factors, as I've already outlined.

But no, the only thing that makes sense is it was one guy. Right.

 

[Ice-Tray]

They didn't specifically reference Karlsson, they referenced issues, which could have been caused by a multitude of other factors, as I've already outlined.

But no, the only thing that makes sense is it was one guy. Right.

Of course, a multitude of other causes of drama in the room, not the actual drama surrounding EK and Hoffman in the room, that couldn’t be part of it now could it?

That was made up by Dorion, even though Hoffman went through it all step by step shortly after his trade. He’s just making it up as well though.

Dude, you’re working overtime to argue a point that you have absolutely no knowledge of. I mean we have wideman specifically referencing EK, but he sucks, Hoffman outlining his drama with the captain, but he sucks and lied, two vets complaining about the drama, but they were talking about the OTHER drama, and then we have an ex US player referencing comments by his friends on the team, all lies, and then just last week we have two media guys who admit to being in the room and seeing what was going on, referencing EK specifically, who were also lying. We have comments made by Boro, but he sucks, and then of course we have the insinuations made by a couple other players who are super happy with how different the team is this year, but’s that’s because we added a bunch of character rookies to the team who are making up for the loss of the beloved leader...



And all of this is not lunacy because you, who have no ties whatsoever to the team, but really like watching EK on the ice, have a gut feeling about these things. Yes, you’re probably right... hahaha, I can’t believe we’re even having this conversation, wait this is HF Sens, if course I can.

 

[Tuna99]

Remember when we traded Turris and after the trade Dorion said he had never discussed a 6 yet deal or term with Turris. And if that wasn’t a big enough red-flag, he said he made a contract offer to Karlsson amd never heard back. He’s had Duchene for over a year and doesn’t have his contract numbers - this isn’t going to happen.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Of course, a multitude of other causes of drama in the room, not the actual drama surrounding EK and Hoffman in the room, that couldn’t be part of it now could it?

That was made up by Dorion, even though Hoffman went through it all step by step shortly after his trade. He’s just making it up as well though.

Dude, you’re working overtime to argue a point that you have absolutely no knowledge of. I mean we have wideman specifically referencing EK, but he sucks, Hoffman outlining his drama with the captain, but he sucks and lied, two vets complaining about the drama, but they were talking about the OTHER drama, and then we have an ex US player referencing comments by his friends on the team, all lies, and then just last week we have two media guys who admit to being in the room and seeing what was going on, referencing EK specifically, who were also lying. We have comments made by Boro, but he sucks, and then of course we have the insinuations made by a couple other players who are super happy with how different the team is this year, but’s that’s because we added a bunch of character rookies to the team who are making up for the loss of the beloved leader...

Again, where are these quotes referencing Karlsson SPECIFICALLY? Maybe they're talking about Hoffman? Or Phaneuf? Or Brassard? Or all of the above? You don't know!

I mean, let's look at what Burrows actually said:

Burrows alluded to distractions caused by team owner Eugene Melnyk and the speculation of an Erik Karlsson trade. He also made reference to damaging disruptions — likely the harassment of Melinda Karlsson, allegedly by Mike Hoffman’s fiancee Monika Caryk.

“It’s not only one thing. It’s not only (owner) Eugene (Melnyk) or coaches or players … Karl,” said Burrows. “It seems like it was a lot of things that went on at the same time, and we didn’t really respond to it well.

Karlsson is part of it, sure, but so is Hoffman, Dorion and Melnyk. Surprise, surprise! Multiple factors!

And like lot's of people have already mentioned, Karlsson, Hoffman AND Dorion have all stated that that specific "drama" didn't happen until March.

So how did it cause the team to lose so many games in October, November, December and February?

We can go round and round forever, but it's pretty clear you have a big misunderstanding about what's been said, or insinuated. But keep on believing what you believe if it makes you feel better!

 

[Samsquanch]

Did everyone's mood improve because EK left, or did a bunch of new players join the team, who had never played with Karlsson, with a "happy-to-be-here" attitude? And maybe the zero expectations made things feel a bit lighter too?

Tkachuk, Batherson, Boedker, Lajoie, Tierney, Demelo, Jaros, Falk weren't on the team last year.
Chabot, White, McCormick probably had no issues, since they were rookies.

So by saying, "the team had a problem with Karlsson" you really mean Stone, Duchene, Ryan, Ceci, Dzingel, Borowiecki and Anderson had a problem with Karlsson. The opinions of Ryan, Ceci, Dzingel and Borowiecki shouldn't matter, so Stone, Duchene and Anderson had a problem with Karlsson?

All of the locker room problems are being attributed to him, but fun question, do you think Dorion telling everyone he asked for each player's NTC in November had a good impact on the "vibe" in the room? And then when he followed that up by holding a press conference and telling the media that he was open to trading anyone and everyone? Think the players enjoyed that experience?

Was it a distraction when every question they had to answer in pre-game scrums was about trade rumors, all because their GM couldn't keep his mouth shut?

I dont even know where to begin with this post..

Truthfully I dont care what you guys think anymore tbh. I was simply laughing at the comment that "the players are still in mourning" over EK, and its affecting team performance.

Its pretty hilarious actually. Like hopefully they can pull themselves together some day and get over this traumatic event. Maybe after some counselling sessions

 

[DaveMatthew]

Its pretty hilarious actually. Like hopefully they can pull themselves together one day and get over it. Maybe after some counselling sessions

It's funny, because player's don't actually care that much, they all get a long fine, and even if they don't, it's fine. That's why all this "drama" talk is hilarious. Drama doesn't torpedo seasons.

Teams with too many bad players lose. Last year, we had too many bad players. It's that simple.

Being "close" means shit. There've been Stanley Cup winning teams where players were sleeping with each other's wives. You think everyone on the Capitals likes Ovechkin? Please.

 

[foggyvisor]

Truthfully I dont care what you guys think anymore tbh. I was simply laughing at the comment that "the players are still in mourning" over EK, and its affecting team performance.

That was me and it was a joke that went over your head. But you can move on now.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Again, where are these quotes referencing Karlsson SPECIFICALLY? Maybe they're talking about Hoffman? Or Phaneuf? Or Brassard? Or all of the above? You don't know!

And like lot's of people have already mentioned, Karlsson, Hoffman AND Dorion have all stated that that specific "drama" didn't happen until March.

So how did it cause the team to lose so many games in October, November, December and February?

We can go round and round forever, but it's pretty clear you have a big misunderstanding about what's been said, or insinuated. But keep on believing what you believe if it makes you feel better!

Say what? Now you’ve moved the goalposts?

US ex player (NHL) tip of my tongue look him up, specifically cites EK, Wideman references EK, Hoffman obviously references EK, two media dudes at his return game specifically reference EK, Dillon Is speaking directly to EK (still makes me laugh that you argued that it was actually EK yelling at himself).

Andy and Burrows specifically mentioned the drama in the room, of which we have only one known specific incident, but according to Wideman, two media guys, team US ex player dude, EK was a suffocating leader.

Then of course we have comments made by Boro, Stone, Duchene, that reference leadership and team play.

Now you’re trying to make some argument about play in October and November like that has some form of relevance to what EK is like in the room.

I dunno man, you’re trying hard to make this a me insinuation when I’ve provided numerous accounts from people who were there.

No one is arguing that EK was awesome in the room, no one has come out and refuted any of these statements made by any of these people, have you wondered why that is?

Stone came out and said that he likes EK and that he was welcoming to new guys in the room, which makes sense, but doesn’t contradict anything that was said as recently as a week ago.

Super strange that the team, media, players, or really anyone hasn’t come out up in arms against the slander against EK. Strange that it’s only a few of you in here that seem to be clinging to this idea that EK could do jo wrong, while the rest of the hockey world can clearly see that the situation in Ottawa gradually soured to the point where EK was moved, and no one in the organization was overly sorry to see him go.

But you have a gut feeling, EK fans have a gut feeling, I’m shocked!

 

[foggyvisor]

Say what? Now you’ve moved the goalposts?

US ex player (NHL) tip of my tongue look him up, specifically cites EK, Wideman references EK, Hoffman obviously references EK, two media dudes at his return game specifically reference EK, Dillon Is speaking directly to EK (still makes me laugh that you argued that it was actually EK yelling at himself).

Andy and Burrows specifically mentioned the drama in the room, of which we have only one known specific incident, but according to Wideman, two media guys, team US ex player dude, EK was a suffocating leader.

Then of course we have comments made by Boro, Stone, Duchene, that reference leadership and team play.

Now you’re trying to make some argument about play in October and November like that has some form of relevance to what EK is like in the room.

I dunno man, you’re trying hard to make this a me insinuation when I’ve provided numerous accounts from people who were there.

No one is arguing that EK was awesome in the room, no one has come out and refuted any of these statements made by any of these people, have you wondered why that is?

Stone came out and said that he likes EK and that he was welcoming to new guys in the room, which makes sense, but doesn’t contradict anything that was said as recently as a week ago.

Super strange that the team, media, players, or really anyone hasn’t come out up in arms against the slander against EK. Strange that it’s only a few of you in here that seem to be clinging to this idea that EK could do jo wrong, while the rest of the hockey world can clearly see that the situation in Ottawa gradually soured to the point where EK was moved, and no one in the organization was overly sorry to see him go.

But you have a gut feeling, EK fans have a gut feeling, I’m shocked!

I spoke with Wideman the other week and he said Karlsson was awesome, so there goes your theory.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Do you realize that the majority of people on this board feel like this when they engage you? How do you feel about that? Does it give you pause?

Wait a second foggy, did you put together a private poll about me behind my back?

Let me get this straight foggy, you make up a stat to suit your hurt feelings, and I’m supposed to feel something about that? To take pause?

Here’s what I feel, try arguing on your own merits instead of making up bullshit stats to support a baseless claim designed to make me feel bad.

I know it’s bad form to argue against EK opinions and organizational hate posts these days, but such is life.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I spoke with Wideman the other week and he said Karlsson was awesome, so there goes your theory.

Ha! I wouldn’t be surprised if You’re actually serious.

An Ex nhl player with friends on the team related some shared opinions in regards to the captain, and that’s totally same same to your post.

I’m getting a clearer picture now foggy, thanks for taking the time.

 

[Samsquanch]

That was me and it was a joke that went over your head. But you can move on now.

PS, your jokes suck and your not very funny, because it was not obvious to me or other people...

And speaking of moving along, you guys in here obsessing with Karlsson need to seriously move on. Hes gone, and hes not coming back, ever.

Yes it sucks/sucked, but its time to deal with it like an adult and move on (especially considering the emergence of Chabot). Maybe try the sharks or something..

I bet this place would be much more tolerable if we didnt have a bunch of whiners trying to rain on any sign of optimism in here though.

I cant wait till Stone and Duchene resign, and hopefully the negative posters around here start to get weened out. As a very long time poster/lurker around here, it will be nice to see the mic get taken back from the haters someday.

 

[coladin]

50-50 chance they both sign.

 

[The Lewler]

50-50 chance they both sign.

That doesn't seem like math.

 

[BatherSeason]

US ex player (NHL) tip of my tongue look him up, specifically cites EK

Does "US Ex-Player" have a name?? You would know if you were actually reading the replies to you as it has been mentioned to you multiple times now.

 

[BatherSeason]

PS, your jokes suck and your not very funny, because it was not obvious to me or other people...

And speaking of moving along, you guys in here obsessing with Karlsson need to seriously move on. Hes gone, and hes not coming back, ever.

Yes it sucks/sucked, but its time to deal with it like an adult and move on (especially considering the emergence of Chabot). Maybe try the sharks or something..

I bet this place would be much more tolerable if we didnt have a bunch of whiners trying to rain on any sign of optimism in here though.

I cant wait till Stone and Duchene resign, and hopefully the negative posters around here start to get weened out. As a very long time poster/lurker around here, it will be nice to see the mic get taken back from the haters someday.

You are equally obsessing with Karlsson but from the other end of the spectrum. If you don't care and want to move along, then move along. I hear SensChirp has a ton of positivity in their comment section. Whining about people whining seems quite unproductive.

 

[SensFactor]

I voted 1 will sign. Likely Stone.

 

[Samsquanch]

You are equally obsessing with Karlsson but from the other end of the spectrum. If you don't care and want to move along, then move along. I hear SensChirp has a ton of positivity in their comment section. Whining about people whining seems quite unproductive.

Look at the thread title. Now go to the one with Karlsson's name in it if you really feel the need to discuss him. Every thread seems to devolve into a whine fest over losing Karlsson.

We should be talking about Duchene and Stone in here, and how its starting to look possible that we can sign both at this point.

But keep trying I guess..

 

[DaveMatthew]

Say what? Now you’ve moved the goalposts?

US ex player (NHL) tip of my tongue look him up, specifically cites EK, Wideman references EK, Hoffman obviously references EK, two media dudes at his return game specifically reference EK, Dillon Is speaking directly to EK (still makes me laugh that you argued that it was actually EK yelling at himself).

Andy and Burrows specifically mentioned the drama in the room, of which we have only one known specific incident, but according to Wideman, two media guys, team US ex player dude, EK was a suffocating leader.

Then of course we have comments made by Boro, Stone, Duchene, that reference leadership and team play.

Now you’re trying to make some argument about play in October and November like that has some form of relevance to what EK is like in the room.

I dunno man, you’re trying hard to make this a me insinuation when I’ve provided numerous accounts from people who were there.

No one is arguing that EK was awesome in the room, no one has come out and refuted any of these statements made by any of these people, have you wondered why that is?

Stone came out and said that he likes EK and that he was welcoming to new guys in the room, which makes sense, but doesn’t contradict anything that was said as recently as a week ago.

Mark Stone was specifically asked, was Erik Karlsson a problem in the locker room before last week's game. He said "No, I don't think so", point blank. That doesn't contradict anything? I guess he only lies when it goes against your viewpoint. What about Turris?

"San Jose is lucky to be getting @ErikKarlsson65, hall of famer on and off the ice. One of the best leaders and teammates I've come across, I'm one of the lucky few who got to be on the ice with him daily. Him and Mel are truly amazing people, my family wishes them all the best"

Sounds like he's refuting those statements. But I'm sure he doesn't know what he's talking about, while the US ex player who's name you don't remember does.

You keep referring to these smoking gun comments from players, but there are none.

Wideman was talking about how the PP has changed because they involve everyone this year. If you actually watched the team play, you'd know that this is more in reference to spreading the puck around and not trying to get Hoffman a one-timer every single time.

Burrows specifically mentioned Melnyk's comments, the trade rumors around EK and other players, and the Caryk situation as issues. He didn't single out anything. He said a lot of stuff happened at the same time.

But it's pretty clear you're set in your opinion and will ignore reality. I look forward to reading your insinuations about Duchene in 4-6 weeks, based on "quotes from people who were there."

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Ice-Tray]

Mark Stone was specifically asked, was Erik Karlsson a problem in the locker room before last week's game. He said "No, I don't think so", point blank. That doesn't contradict anything? I guess he only lies when it goes against your viewpoint. What about Turris?

"San Jose is lucky to be getting @ErikKarlsson65, hall of famer on and off the ice. One of the best leaders and teammates I've come across, I'm one of the lucky few who got to be on the ice with him daily. Him and Mel are truly amazing people, my family wishes them all the best"

Sounds like he's refuting those statements. But I'm sure he doesn't know what he's talking about, while the US ex player who's name you don't remember does.

You keep referring to these smoking gun comments from players, but there are none.

Wideman was talking about how the PP has changed because they involve everyone this year. If you actually watched the team play, you'd know that this is more in reference to spreading the puck around and not trying to get Hoffman a one-timer every single time.

Burrows specifically mentioned Melnyk's comments, the trade rumors around EK and other players, and the Caryk situation as issues. He didn't single out anything. He said a lot of stuff happened at the same time.

But it's pretty clear you're set in your opinion and will ignore reality. I look forward to reading your insinuations about Duchene in 4-6 weeks, based on "quotes from people who were there."

Good on Stone for being supportive, especially after the needless harshness by the tv guys on his return.

Oh, and the player was O’Sullivan, just remembered... Maybe it was Ryan he’s friends a with?

Nope. EK gave up on the team last year and stopped playing defence. That’s when I stopped looking at him as a solid leader of this team.

Finding out that he was at the centre of a locker room split, or as Burrows referees ro it as: “damaging disruptions — likely the harassment of Melinda Karlsson, allegedly by Mike Hoffman’s fiancee Monika Caryk, which is believed to have caused a fracture of the team family” was of no surprise given his uninspired play.

Hearing how happy everyone is, and then all of the other tidbits that have come out serve as more evidence that some had gone badly wrong.

He’s gone now, and I don’t really care, but I have to say that it makes me laugh watching posters like yourself defend the guy like you know him all the while trying to convince everyone that it was all a grand conspiracy by PD and EM.

I’m not set in my position because I hate EK, I’m arguing it because of how much evidence points to it, and how his lame play last year supports it. Your position comes from how much you like a complete stranger, and how much you’ve intertwined him with your personal emotions.

You’re right though, if a dozen sources come out after Duchene leaves saying he was a locker room issue I’ll likely side with the evidence, though I won’t have a craptastic year of play to rankle over.

We can stop now I think. Despite a ton of smoke and tidbits to the contrary, you have been very clear that it doesn’t exist. Good chats!